People that don’t go the average speed

[TheBALDpuma]

bigandclever said:

deggles said:

Something like 8% of cars are on false plates. Add in foreign/stolen/improperly-registered vehicles and there's plenty who can just disregard cameras.

That seems ‘a lot’.
There are about 32 million registered cars in the UK. So about 2 and a half million are on false plates? Naaaaah, not having it.

Yeah it's just not true. That's 1 in 13 cars on false plates. So if you have 25 friends, two of them on average would be on false plates. Can't be true.

[Grayedout]

Jediworrier said:

Grayedout said:

Sorry they don't. They read your numberplate and note the time you passed that point, they know the distance from the last camera and they then calculate your average!

Distance travelled / Time taken !

I'm astounded that had to be explained!

I'm not. I'm sure many don't understand it!

[hairy vx220]

TheBALDpuma said:

bigandclever said:

deggles said:

Something like 8% of cars are on false plates. Add in foreign/stolen/improperly-registered vehicles and there's plenty who can just disregard cameras.

That seems ‘a lot’.
There are about 32 million registered cars in the UK. So about 2 and a half million are on false plates? Naaaaah, not having it.

Yeah it's just not true. That's 1 in 13 cars on false plates. So if you have 25 friends, two of them on average would be on false plates. Can't be true.

Estimated 90,000 false plates according to the Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/comment/identity-...

[mikeiow]

Mandat said:

WJNB said:

I'm happy to be "an idiot in the outside lane" doing 50mph. It means I'm not sandwiched amidst the HGV's & if prats want to tail-gate me because I refuse to speed then tough I just gently ease off the throttle or click down on the cruise control.

You are part of the problem.

I don't mind if you want to stick to 50mph, but please maintain proper lane discipline and move to the left unless you are overtaking.

Keeping station with cars in adjacent lanes is even more moronic and more dangerous than drivers realise.

Yup. WJNB sounds like the sort of person most of us end up undertaking, as they sit there resolutely on just under the actual limit ('cos speedo overreads) whilst most of us want to do the limit +5-10%

[smn159]

Jediworrier said:

Do the areas with average speed cameras also have signs advising you not to change lane? I don't get out much but seem to remember them going hand in hand.

The ones on the M23 tell you to keep left unless overtaking. Apparently some actually do need to be reminded of this

[A1Diego]

IJWS15 said:

If you know what the guidelines are for prosecution then you can stay just under them. Your Speedo will read high.

When I had a tomtom running showing 55 mph with the car on cruise the speedo was showing 59, never got a ticket (for that).

It is the idiots doing dead on 50 in the outside lane holding everyone else up that annoy me.

Are you assuming that we have 10% allowance in our speed? Have heard of that but never wanted to test it !! I tend to stick about 55mph which in real world is 52ish.

[deggles]

hairy vx220 said:

TheBALDpuma said:

bigandclever said:

deggles said:

Something like 8% of cars are on false plates. Add in foreign/stolen/improperly-registered vehicles and there's plenty who can just disregard cameras.

That seems ‘a lot’.
There are about 32 million registered cars in the UK. So about 2 and a half million are on false plates? Naaaaah, not having it.

Yeah it's just not true. That's 1 in 13 cars on false plates. So if you have 25 friends, two of them on average would be on false plates. Can't be true.

Estimated 90,000 false plates according to the Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/comment/identity-...

Source for the 8% claim was also the Torygraph, FWIW: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/one-in-12-ca...

[bearman68]

Grayedout said:

Jediworrier said:

Grayedout said:

Sorry they don't. They read your numberplate and note the time you passed that point, they know the distance from the last camera and they then calculate your average!

Distance travelled / Time taken !

I'm astounded that had to be explained!

I'm not. I'm sure many don't understand it!

Can't be true - if it was there would only be 2 cameras - one at the start, and one at the end. But there's loads. So they must be averaging you speed as you pass them. Stands to reason.

[unident]

A1Diego said:

Are you assuming that we have 10% allowance in our speed? Have heard of that but never wanted to test it !! I tend to stick about 55mph which in real world is 52ish.

It’s pretty much accepted the the guidelines of 10% +2mph are what’s implemented in most areas. Given that pretty much every HGV continues through the roadworks on their limiter I can’t see that the police are doing all of them for every trip through every set of roadworks. If you don’t want to chance it, then that’s your choice, but don’t get in the way of those who are happy to.

[Osinjak]

bearman68 said:

Can't be true - if it was there would only be 2 cameras - one at the start, and one at the end. But there's loads. So they must be averaging you speed as you pass them. Stands to reason.

Only it doesn't. The system requires two paired cameras but there's no limit to how many can be used nor in what sequence. You could have ten cameras with just the camera at either end or you could have four in two pairs or two in a chain of four and so on. So the question is, do you feel lucky?

[bearman68]

Osinjak said:

Only it doesn't. The system requires two paired cameras but there's no limit to how many can be used nor in what sequence. You could have ten cameras with just the camera at either end or you could have four in two pairs or two in a chain of four and so on. So the question is, do you feel lucky?

So why not use a matched pair at each end? Average speed below target = OK. What's the point in putting up loads?

So you might be lucky, but it's not possible to be lucky with a pair at each end.

Anyway, my mate says they average you instantaneous speed, and he should know he does lots of driving.

[unident]

bearman68 said:

So why not use a matched pair at each end? Average speed below target = OK. What's the point in putting up loads?

So you might be lucky, but it's not possible to be lucky with a pair at each end.

Anyway, my mate says they average you instantaneous speed, and he should know he does lots of driving.

I presume you’re taking the piss, but just in case.

There are junctions along the motorway, often within roadworks, if they only had cameras at the beginning and end then anyone who joined or left the motorway could do whatever speed they wanted. The whole point of multiple cameras is that you have no idea which ones are working and paired so you need to hold an average at below 50 (plus a tolerance that’s you’re happy with personally) between all cameras.

[LunarOne]

bearman68 said:

But they are 'average speed cameras' - Of course they measure speed. Then they average it.

That's why it's safe to do 70 between them, as long as you slow down to 50 when you see them.

Duhh!!

I can't tell whether you're trolling or actually serious!

[bearman68]

LunarOne said:

I can't tell whether you're trolling or actually serious!

Bugger, outed, sorry chaps. (I quite enjoyed it though)

[SarlechS]

I may be wrong here but i was under the impression you need to trigger them off before it starts recording the average?.. so break 57-58mph GPS on one of the specs before it starts the average record..

i know of people that slow to 50 through the camera points and then 70-80 in between and never get caught.

Could be wrong though...can anyone confirm?

[Osinjak]

SarlechS said:

I may be wrong here but i was under the impression you need to trigger them off before it starts recording the average?.. so break 57-58mph GPS on one of the specs before it starts the average record..

i know of people that slow to 50 through the camera points and then 70-80 in between and never get caught.

Could be wrong though...can anyone confirm?

It doesn't record your speed at the beginning, it records your number plate through ANPR. You could go through at 100mph if you really wanted to as long as you do 10mph afterwards until the next camera (or whatever the speed would need to be to average it at 50mph). When you hit the next paired camera it'll measure how long it took you to travel distance X against the set average speed. If it should take you 2 mins to travel the distance normally but you take 90s you've been naughty. Clearly there are lots of variables here and my maths isn't up to it but I imagine it'll take into account tolerances and all the rest of it before automatically dishing out a ticket. I think the distances between cameras is fixed (200m maybe?) so someone who's good with numbers would be able to work it out.

[mattyprice4004]

WJNB said:

I'm happy to be "an idiot in the outside lane" doing 50mph. It means I'm not sandwiched amidst the HGV's & if prats want to tail-gate me because I refuse to speed then tough I just gently ease off the throttle or click down on the cruise control.

Poor attempt at trolling; no one is that stupid.

[A1VDY]

Osinjak said:

SarlechS said:

I may be wrong here but i was under the impression you need to trigger them off before it starts recording the average?.. so break 57-58mph GPS on one of the specs before it starts the average record..

i know of people that slow to 50 through the camera points and then 70-80 in between and never get caught.

Could be wrong though...can anyone confirm?

It doesn't record your speed at the beginning, it records your number plate through ANPR. You could go through at 100mph if you really wanted to as long as you do 10mph afterwards until the next camera (or whatever the speed would need to be to average it at 50mph). When you hit the next paired camera it'll measure how long it took you to travel distance X against the set average speed. If it should take you 2 mins to travel the distance normally but you take 90s you've been naughty. Clearly there are lots of variables here and my maths isn't up to it but I imagine it'll take into account tolerances and all the rest of it before automatically dishing out a ticket. I think the distances between cameras is fixed (200m maybe?) so someone who's good with numbers would be able to work it out.

This is correct^

They read the plate and average the speed at the second camera. Pass both cameras at 70mph but youred have to do 30mph (for instance) for a certain distance between to get the average on or below 50mph.
Stick to 50mph through roadworks as everyone should and this 'problem' doesn't exist.
As ever though there's always the nerdy ones who for some reason want to speed through theses restricted roadworks or average speed sections just to save a few seconds or worse.. actually being overtaken or citing being behind a truck is a no no..

[Snails]

OP, I think part of the reason is demonstrated in the responses to your question. There is confusion in this thread already about how they work and this is on a forum where you might expect users to have a better understanding of how they operate than the average road user.

[Osinjak]

This is rather rudimentary but illustrates the point. Say the average speed in a set of roadworks is set at 60mph from point A to point B which is one mile. Ordinarily this should take one minute if you held steady at 60 (or started at 65 and finished at 55 and so on) which would mean that the system knows your average speed was 60 given the time it took you to travel the distance.

If you decided to chance it and went at 65 this would take you 55s. The system may flag it up and say, 'Aha, Mr Man has taken a shorter time to travel one mile therefore he's been speeding.' It would work out your speed using the time taken and issue a ticket automatically. However, Mr Machine may have a tolerance built in of perhaps 10% so actually won't trigger until 54s has been hit. You takes your chances and all that.

I think that makes sense...