People that don’t go the average speed
Discussion
LunarOne said:
We don't know whether he meant an indicated 50 or a true 50. But I really hope nobody's speedo is overreading by 5mph at only 45. That would be some error! Mine does 48 at an indicated 50, and 67 at an indicated 70 and I thought that was pretty terrible.
Now that we've mostly dispensed with a spinning magnet in a cup and use digital speed sensors, surely it would be a simple matter to have the car calibrate its speedometer against its own GPS speed at intervals to automatically account for tyre wear. Perhaps every time the car does a steady speed in a straight line with low GPS dilution of precision available.
I presume my Seat does this, it always reads 1mph out - ie 29gps at indicated 30, 69gps at indicated 70.Now that we've mostly dispensed with a spinning magnet in a cup and use digital speed sensors, surely it would be a simple matter to have the car calibrate its speedometer against its own GPS speed at intervals to automatically account for tyre wear. Perhaps every time the car does a steady speed in a straight line with low GPS dilution of precision available.
But it also didn't change when I fitted brand new tyres either.
My motorbike is nearly 7% out across the range - 75 indicated is 70gps
Max5476 said:
I presume my Seat does this, it always reads 1mph out - ie 29gps at indicated 30, 69gps at indicated 70.
But it also didn't change when I fitted brand new tyres either.
My motorbike is nearly 7% out across the range - 75 indicated is 70gps
It won’t have changed because the circumference of the tyre between a new tyre and and on old one is absolutely minuscule. You lose 6-7mm of tread between a brand new tyre and one that’s on the absolute legal limit. The change when compared to a 16 inch wheel and 2 inch tyre is about 1-1.5% of the circumference and it won’t be a 1-1.5% impact on your speed reading. I’m pretty sure of that, but maybe someone can do the maths and show me if I’m wrong. But it also didn't change when I fitted brand new tyres either.
My motorbike is nearly 7% out across the range - 75 indicated is 70gps
I'm assuming there has to be some slack in the leeway they offer on average speed cameras because of the double effect of measurement uncertainty in both the camera accuracy and the distance measured between the cameras.
I mean I doubt that's what the people speeding are thinking about, admittedly, but I'd still like to know what the calaculations are based on.
I mean I doubt that's what the people speeding are thinking about, admittedly, but I'd still like to know what the calaculations are based on.
Tallow said:
I'm assuming there has to be some slack in the leeway they offer on average speed cameras because of the double effect of measurement uncertainty in both the camera accuracy and the distance measured between the cameras.
I mean I doubt that's what the people speeding are thinking about, admittedly, but I'd still like to know what the calaculations are based on.
I'm pretty sure modern GPS sytems and Surveying methods can locate Camera positions pretty accurately I mean I doubt that's what the people speeding are thinking about, admittedly, but I'd still like to know what the calaculations are based on.
Tallow said:
I'm assuming there has to be some slack in the leeway they offer on average speed cameras because of the double effect of measurement uncertainty in both the camera accuracy and the distance measured between the cameras.
I mean I doubt that's what the people speeding are thinking about, admittedly, but I'd still like to know what the calaculations are based on.
It’s pretty much accepted that cameras whether fixed or mobile apply the 10% +2mph guideline. I know it’s not compulsory, I know it’s not a law, but there is absolutely no way that speed limits are enforced absolutely. That leeway would be sufficient for any of the overly scientific thought processes going on here. I mean I doubt that's what the people speeding are thinking about, admittedly, but I'd still like to know what the calaculations are based on.
I’ve said it before (and at least one other has agreed their experience is the same) that driving at an indicated 57mph on cruise control has never resulted in a speeding charge for me.
Tyre pressure might be a more significant factor than wear and of course you can't account for massive flat spots and/or cracked side walls either.
And from experience, gps data can be pretty horrific, is ruined by bridges, viaducts, trees, clouds, a stiff breeze etc and I wouldn't try to calibrate a speedo to it.
It just looks OK on screen due to hilarious amounts of filtering.
And from experience, gps data can be pretty horrific, is ruined by bridges, viaducts, trees, clouds, a stiff breeze etc and I wouldn't try to calibrate a speedo to it.
It just looks OK on screen due to hilarious amounts of filtering.
the simple answer is to drive in accordance with the highway code. If that means there is a sign telling you to drive at 50mph, then do as it says. Why do people think they are better than everyone else on the road or above the law? What makes you think you are more special than the little old lady doing what the speed signs tell you? If your late then get out of bed earlier in the morning it isn't rocket science is it? You all should have passed a driving test to drive on the public highways and if you did then you didn't drive like a numpty during that test did you?
If your running late, don't call the person your meeting by wedging a phone between your shoulder and ear and think that nobody can see you, use the handsfree kit the car comes with. most new cars have it, even in the BMW cars that you all think are the best cars on the road. In my opinion 99% of people who drive that brand of vehicle are pig ignorant anyway. They either sit in lane 2 or 3 making sure they get eye contact with you as you pass them in lane 1. The bet is they will speed up, overtake you and then be sitting in front of you at the next set of lights anyway.
when you've lost a member of your family through some idiot who can't drive, then you will realise the importance of driving where and how it indicates you to and at what speed you should be driving at. I lost a relative to a pissed up moron in a car speeding in a residentil area with a speed limit. He thought he was charlie big potatoes.
if you think this is a rant, then maybe it is but drive properly as it isn't the 1950's anymore with 4 cars on the road. It's a dangerous place out there and i'd hate for one of you to have the plod come and knock on your door when they are the bearer of bad news..........
If your running late, don't call the person your meeting by wedging a phone between your shoulder and ear and think that nobody can see you, use the handsfree kit the car comes with. most new cars have it, even in the BMW cars that you all think are the best cars on the road. In my opinion 99% of people who drive that brand of vehicle are pig ignorant anyway. They either sit in lane 2 or 3 making sure they get eye contact with you as you pass them in lane 1. The bet is they will speed up, overtake you and then be sitting in front of you at the next set of lights anyway.
when you've lost a member of your family through some idiot who can't drive, then you will realise the importance of driving where and how it indicates you to and at what speed you should be driving at. I lost a relative to a pissed up moron in a car speeding in a residentil area with a speed limit. He thought he was charlie big potatoes.
if you think this is a rant, then maybe it is but drive properly as it isn't the 1950's anymore with 4 cars on the road. It's a dangerous place out there and i'd hate for one of you to have the plod come and knock on your door when they are the bearer of bad news..........
austina35 said:
if you think this is a rant, then maybe it is but drive properly as it isn't the 1950's anymore with 4 cars on the road. It's a dangerous place out there and i'd hate for one of you to have the plod come and knock on your door when they are the bearer of bad news..........
We're discussing why some people take it upon themselves to completely ignore the speed limit in average speed zones. Some have suggested that these people don't know how they work. And here you are ranting. Why? I'm very sorry about your relative, but aren't you preaching to the converted here?austina35 said:
the simple answer is to drive in accordance with the highway code. If that means there is a sign telling you to drive at 50mph, then do as it says. Why do people think they are better than everyone else on the road or above the law? What makes you think you are more special than the little old lady doing what the speed signs tell you? If your late then get out of bed earlier in the morning it isn't rocket science is it? You all should have passed a driving test to drive on the public highways and if you did then you didn't drive like a numpty during that test did you?
If your running late, don't call the person your meeting by wedging a phone between your shoulder and ear and think that nobody can see you, use the handsfree kit the car comes with. most new cars have it, even in the BMW cars that you all think are the best cars on the road. In my opinion 99% of people who drive that brand of vehicle are pig ignorant anyway. They either sit in lane 2 or 3 making sure they get eye contact with you as you pass them in lane 1. The bet is they will speed up, overtake you and then be sitting in front of you at the next set of lights anyway.
when you've lost a member of your family through some idiot who can't drive, then you will realise the importance of driving where and how it indicates you to and at what speed you should be driving at. I lost a relative to a pissed up moron in a car speeding in a residentil area with a speed limit. He thought he was charlie big potatoes.
if you think this is a rant, then maybe it is but drive properly as it isn't the 1950's anymore with 4 cars on the road. It's a dangerous place out there and i'd hate for one of you to have the plod come and knock on your door when they are the bearer of bad news..........
Eh? Not sure what this has to do with the thread, this is all about why people chance it in an average speed zone not reckless or dangerous driving.If your running late, don't call the person your meeting by wedging a phone between your shoulder and ear and think that nobody can see you, use the handsfree kit the car comes with. most new cars have it, even in the BMW cars that you all think are the best cars on the road. In my opinion 99% of people who drive that brand of vehicle are pig ignorant anyway. They either sit in lane 2 or 3 making sure they get eye contact with you as you pass them in lane 1. The bet is they will speed up, overtake you and then be sitting in front of you at the next set of lights anyway.
when you've lost a member of your family through some idiot who can't drive, then you will realise the importance of driving where and how it indicates you to and at what speed you should be driving at. I lost a relative to a pissed up moron in a car speeding in a residentil area with a speed limit. He thought he was charlie big potatoes.
if you think this is a rant, then maybe it is but drive properly as it isn't the 1950's anymore with 4 cars on the road. It's a dangerous place out there and i'd hate for one of you to have the plod come and knock on your door when they are the bearer of bad news..........
Osinjak said:
It doesn't record your speed at the beginning, it records your number plate through ANPR. You could go through at 100mph if you really wanted to as long as you do 10mph afterwards until the next camera (or whatever the speed would need to be to average it at 50mph). When you hit the next paired camera it'll measure how long it took you to travel distance X against the set average speed. If it should take you 2 mins to travel the distance normally but you take 90s you've been naughty. Clearly there are lots of variables here and my maths isn't up to it but I imagine it'll take into account tolerances and all the rest of it before automatically dishing out a ticket. I think the distances between cameras is fixed (200m maybe?) so someone who's good with numbers would be able to work it out.
completely get what you are saying but i know many people that have been doing the correct speed through the speed trap points and then go 10-20mph in between and have never been caught that's the only reason why i thought it worked the way i suggested.i commuted through SPECS for around 4-5 years daily and i only ever saw people who went through cameras at higher speeds on the speed trap points get flashed
SarlechS said:
Osinjak said:
It doesn't record your speed at the beginning, it records your number plate through ANPR. You could go through at 100mph if you really wanted to as long as you do 10mph afterwards until the next camera (or whatever the speed would need to be to average it at 50mph). When you hit the next paired camera it'll measure how long it took you to travel distance X against the set average speed. If it should take you 2 mins to travel the distance normally but you take 90s you've been naughty. Clearly there are lots of variables here and my maths isn't up to it but I imagine it'll take into account tolerances and all the rest of it before automatically dishing out a ticket. I think the distances between cameras is fixed (200m maybe?) so someone who's good with numbers would be able to work it out.
completely get what you are saying but i know many people that have been doing the correct speed through the speed trap points and then go 10-20mph in between and have never been caught that's the only reason why i thought it worked the way i suggested.i commuted through SPECS for around 4-5 years daily and i only ever saw people who went through cameras at higher speeds on the speed trap points get flashed
SarlechS said:
i commuted through SPECS for around 4-5 years daily and i only ever saw people who went through cameras at higher speeds on the speed trap points get flashed
SPECS cameras don't flash because they're just video cameras linked to ANPR and a timing computer. They do shine a continuous beam of infrared light across the road so that number plates can be read in the dark. It should look like a faint reddish glow to the human eye, but your phone's camera or a dashcam will pick it up clearly.There is a section of road near us that has average speed cameras, and between them are several rural lanes......... I rather like the idea of 2 cars with the same number plate being positioned so that after a very short period of time after the first camera is passed a call to the other one prompts its passage through the second camera. The resulting 'ticket' for an impossible 300MPH+ average for a 1200cc car would satisfy my mischievous mind!
Well here's the situation from the other side.
I live near the part of the M4 in question and drive through at 70 indicated. I've done this roughly three times a week since March and not received a ticket. Those of you who know the area also remember the motorway has had these cameras previously, maybe around 2012/2013(? - can't remember exactly when). I drove through those cameras at 70, too, probably more often than these. Those cameras were there for what felt like well over a year.
The main reason was always because in 2012 there were never any people actually working on the works themselves, ever. The motorway was always totally devoid of workmen. Tried it once, the cameras never worked, and that was it.
I'm not hooning anywhere and stay at indicated 70. Don't tailgate etc. I move over as soon as I've overtaken someone, in strict opposition to the usual people edging along in the fast lane at 51 for miles trying to overtake lorries and steadfastly refusing to move over 'because it's 50 and I'm doing 50'. Loads of people will also sit in the middle lane at 50 throughout the roadworks not overtaking anyone, causing more congestion. The introduction of average speed cameras and roadworks seems to lower the already pretty shabby standards of motorway driving.
If there's people working in the road I'll slow down, for sure, but indicated 70 feels right, cameras don't flash, tickets aren't received.
I live near the part of the M4 in question and drive through at 70 indicated. I've done this roughly three times a week since March and not received a ticket. Those of you who know the area also remember the motorway has had these cameras previously, maybe around 2012/2013(? - can't remember exactly when). I drove through those cameras at 70, too, probably more often than these. Those cameras were there for what felt like well over a year.
The main reason was always because in 2012 there were never any people actually working on the works themselves, ever. The motorway was always totally devoid of workmen. Tried it once, the cameras never worked, and that was it.
I'm not hooning anywhere and stay at indicated 70. Don't tailgate etc. I move over as soon as I've overtaken someone, in strict opposition to the usual people edging along in the fast lane at 51 for miles trying to overtake lorries and steadfastly refusing to move over 'because it's 50 and I'm doing 50'. Loads of people will also sit in the middle lane at 50 throughout the roadworks not overtaking anyone, causing more congestion. The introduction of average speed cameras and roadworks seems to lower the already pretty shabby standards of motorway driving.
If there's people working in the road I'll slow down, for sure, but indicated 70 feels right, cameras don't flash, tickets aren't received.
Edited by moondogs on Sunday 19th July 10:04
Edited by moondogs on Sunday 19th July 10:06
Returning to an earlier point, I find it difficult if not impossible to maintain traditional lane discipline throughout average speed checks. I'm most used to the A40 from Northolt into London. Everyone is doing 40mph plus or minus 10%.
I've always considered it unwise (and in a small car somewhat terrifying) being abreast another vehicle for a long period of time - I simply can't believe they can see you properly. And the lanes can be pretty narrow. So if you cruise past at 43 whilst they are doing 40, it is an age before you can pull in.
Maybe one day I will formulate a FOI request to see if the scheme has actually reduced accidents or merely caused different types of accident?
Anyway what do others think is the correct driving technique. Is it still UK style 'lane discipline' or is it more US style 'stick in the same lane at the average speed'.
Jez.
I've always considered it unwise (and in a small car somewhat terrifying) being abreast another vehicle for a long period of time - I simply can't believe they can see you properly. And the lanes can be pretty narrow. So if you cruise past at 43 whilst they are doing 40, it is an age before you can pull in.
Maybe one day I will formulate a FOI request to see if the scheme has actually reduced accidents or merely caused different types of accident?
Anyway what do others think is the correct driving technique. Is it still UK style 'lane discipline' or is it more US style 'stick in the same lane at the average speed'.
Jez.
scarble said:
Tyre pressure might be a more significant factor than wear and of course you can't account for massive flat spots and/or cracked side walls either.
And from experience, gps data can be pretty horrific, is ruined by bridges, viaducts, trees, clouds, a stiff breeze etc and I wouldn't try to calibrate a speedo to it.
It just looks OK on screen due to hilarious amounts of filtering.
damn right, the satnav in my car often shows the car heading the wrong way for 30 seconds or driving 100m to the left in the sea etc..., i wouldn't trust it to give me an accurate speed.And from experience, gps data can be pretty horrific, is ruined by bridges, viaducts, trees, clouds, a stiff breeze etc and I wouldn't try to calibrate a speedo to it.
It just looks OK on screen due to hilarious amounts of filtering.
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