Grassing up a Covid **** taker.

[Killboy]

markyb_lcy said:

Antibodies are only part of the immune response, the last line of defence in fact. The presence of antibodies at a given point in time and the ability for the body to create them on demand are two things. You can have the latter without having the former.

T cell immunity is far more effective and doesn’t require the use of antibodies.

Honestly, listen to that podcast. All of this is explained by the expert Yeadon, far better than I can relay it to you.

I'll take a listen this evening after work. Although Googling his name is proving interesting.

[markyb_lcy]

Killboy said:

markyb_lcy said:

Antibodies are only part of the immune response, the last line of defence in fact. The presence of antibodies at a given point in time and the ability for the body to create them on demand are two things. You can have the latter without having the former.

T cell immunity is far more effective and doesn’t require the use of antibodies.

Honestly, listen to that podcast. All of this is explained by the expert Yeadon, far better than I can relay it to you.

I'll take a listen this evening after work. Although Googling his name is proving interesting.

Put aside what “people” are saying about him (on Twitter etc). He’s an alternative voice in the current echo chamber of “scientists” that are being given a platform by our biased media (who are also muzzled by ofcom guidelines), but he has the quals and experience to back himself up and as I’m sure you’ll appreciate after listening to him, presents things in a very reasoned and verifiable way.

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

markyb_lcy said:

Antibodies are only part of the immune response, the last line of defence in fact. The presence of antibodies at a given point in time and the ability for the body to create them on demand are two things. You can have the latter without having the former.

T cell immunity is far more effective and doesn’t require the use of antibodies.

Honestly, listen to that podcast. All of this is explained by the expert Yeadon, far better than I can relay it to you.

I'll take a listen this evening after work. Although Googling his name is proving interesting.

Nice one Killboy. I posted the link to the podcast a couple of pages back and you and your chums ignored it. No wonder we can’t have an informed debate on this thread. Let us know what you think of the podcast and if it changes any of your current beliefs.

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

Nice one Killboy. I posted the link to the podcast a couple of pages back and you and your chums ignored it. No wonder we can’t have an informed debate on this thread. Let us know what you think of the podcast and if it changes any of your current beliefs.

I'm fairly sure it wont as I'm currently reading about some of his claims right now, so some of his numbers need to be take for what they are. Seems like some wild stuff.

But no matter what he says, we can continue our little "fact" dance. I'm going to look into this "Tuesday is catchup day" claim now.

[grudas]

majority of these podcasts seem to be hidden down some deep internet hole.. and come from people who have got an interesting history of living in another dimension.

do their talks make sense? yes.. but then you look at other figures and it doesn't.

you essentially end up making a choice, do you want to be the rebel that believes in something else or do you want to go with everyone else and believe in that.

we can see what side people have taken in this thread and I doubt any of the hard-core CTs will change their mind because there's always a "alt-fact" or a podcast to support their views.

we get that with everything.

brexit
war
racism

etc.

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

Killboy, did you read what Witko999 said in response to your post today? You didn’t respond to their post. Did you understand it? Did you consider it for more than a nano-second before dismissing it? I would be interested to know if you agree with the points made or if not why not? Perhaps you believe something else? Or is that too difficult a task for you?

Yes, he posts a lot more sense than you do. Except I believe herd immunity is impossible without a vaccine, or incredible death numbers. We are nowhere near close to having all susceptible people from having it.

Time will tell on the "second wave". We don't have to call it a second wave of that is what you have a problem with. But your predictions are still hilarious. So far mine are bang on

One thing you I doubt you have considered, whilst pissing yourself over your successful prediction (not), is that in March we were only testing a smaller number of people with COVID symptoms and this is reflected the number of COVID deaths that were reported.

Now we test anyone and many thousands per day. The PCR test is producing a substantial number of false positives, and is also identifying asymptotic cases. Asymptotic by the way means no symptoms and no need for clinical intervention. This means there are far more people being found ‘positive’ by per million of population now than in March and a lot of those are false positives or asymptotic (they are not going to die of COVID even if they have other illnesses).

This means that more people are testing positive before they die from whatever cause than was the case in March. By default then a higher proportion/percentage of deaths now are being linked to COVID than was the case in March. It doesn’t mean that COVID is more prevalent or associated with more deaths, it means more COVID deaths will be reported due to the change in the testing numbers.

Therefore while Inaccurate PCR testing continues/increases so will the number of COVID deaths reported even if they didn’t have COVID or were asymptotic. The increased COVID death reporting now has very little to do with the flow of the virus through the population it’s due to increase testing compared to March.

A large proportion of the people being reported as having died from COVID now have either died with COVID, been falsely identified as having COVID or were asymptotic. In which case they didn’t die from COVID but are being counted as if they were and in far higher numbers than in March.

I doubt you’ll get this or consider it, but just may be you’ll understand a bit more if you listen to the Yeadon podcast.

[Phil.]

grudas said:

majority of these podcasts seem to be hidden down some deep internet hole.. and come from people who have got an interesting history of living in another dimension.

do their talks make sense? yes.. but then you look at other figures and it doesn't.

you essentially end up making a choice, do you want to be the rebel that believes in something else or do you want to go with everyone else and believe in that.

we can see what side people have taken in this thread and I doubt any of the hard-core CTs will change their mind because there's always a "alt-fact" or a podcast to support their views.

we get that with everything.

brexit
war
racism

etc.

Note one of my earlier posts about how mainstream media is being prevented by Ofcom rom reporting anything that disagrees with government. They changed the rules In March to suit the government’s agenda. I also posted the evidence. That is why the truth is not being reported more widely. Google it if you are interested.

[Jasandjules]

Ooops

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/13213653...

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

One thing you I doubt you have considered, whilst pissing yourself over your successful prediction (not), is that in March we were only testing a smaller number of people with COVID symptoms and this is reflected the number of COVID deaths that were reported.

Now we test anyone and many thousands per day. The PCR test is producing a substantial number of false positives, and is also identifying asymptotic cases. Asymptotic by the way means no symptoms and no need for clinical intervention. This means there are far more people being found ‘positive’ by per million of population now than in March and a lot of those are false positives or asymptotic (they are not going to die of COVID even if they have other illnesses).

This means that more people are testing positive before they die from whatever cause than was the case in March. By default then a higher proportion/percentage of deaths now are being linked to COVID than was the case in March. It doesn’t mean that COVID is more prevalent or associated with more deaths, it means more COVID deaths will be reported due to the change in the testing numbers.

Therefore while Inaccurate PCR testing continues/increases so will the number of COVID deaths reported even if they didn’t have COVID or were asymptotic. The increased COVID death reporting now has very little to do with the flow of the virus through the population it’s due to increase testing compared to March.

A large proportion of the people being reported as having died from COVID now have either died with COVID, been falsely identified as having COVID or were asymptotic. In which case they didn’t die from COVID but are being counted as if they were and in far higher numbers than in March.

I doubt you’ll get this or consider it, but just may be you’ll understand a bit more if you listen to the Yeadon podcast.

You may fail to note that I've agreed with the reasoning for the high infection numbers. I'm not going to go into the the accuracy and PCR, but I'm reading a lot of criticism that believes those numbers are also not accurate, and are falling apart as the death rates rise.

We are doing more tests, so will likely show more cases, no one is denying that. What you seem to constantly ignore or excuse, is the death rates are rising.

I've also asked why? You wont tell me why Sweden is working and we are not - just that they have no lockdown. So the angle seems to be anti-lockdown, without providing any insight into why, and how the Sweden approach would have helped the death numbers.

You made a prediction a month ago, which I thought was "brave", and I'm calling you on it. I'm not defending the government, and the actions taken, and probably agree that its a shocking overreach. You seem incapable of understanding that. What I'm not doing is making wild predictions and assumptions about the behaviour of the virus. Its going to kill loads more before its done.

[Jasandjules]

Mainstream press getting a little more involved

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-ten-worst-...

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

What you seem to constantly ignore or excuse, is the death rates are rising.

Its going to kill loads more before its done.

Thank you, a reasoned response.

I’ll prepare a fuller explanation on Sweden and post it a bit later.

I want to pick up on the sentiments above.

Firstly, since the pandemic has passed, overall death rates now are normal and quite good compared to recent years. There are no excess death rates being reported presently compared to average death rates over the past 5 years. I’ve posted various pieces of evidence support this statement recently that use ONS figures.

What you are seeing now are a greater proportion of total deaths in the UK being reported as COVID deaths and for the reasons I explained above, much of this increased reporting of COVID deaths is due to increased and inaccurate testing, it’s not because more people are dying of COVID. In fact the numbers dying of COVID now are a small fraction of those who died from it in March/April.

There are some increased deaths occurring in the north presently because the virus had not completed its normal infection cycle before the initial lockdown, as apposed to London which was hit hard early on and now is very close to achieving ‘herd immunity’. Deaths are very low in the London area and have been for sometime. The COVID deaths in the north will slow down too as soon as either the vulnerable die or once sufficient less vulnerable people have become immune. Many people are already immune due to existing T-cells. That certainly a topic worth researching and is included in the podcast.

Example of overall death rates posted a few pages ago:



https://twitter.com/alistairhaimes/status/13203136...

It does appear though that there are excess deaths from many traditional illnesses due to the effect of lockdown or COVID fear. Explanation here:

https://twitter.com/clarecraigpath/status/13213357...

Edited by Phil. on Wednesday 28th October 10:34

[Phil.]

Jasandjules said:

Ooops

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/13213653...

Another example of how and why PCR testing is inaccurate.

[NGee]

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

One thing you I doubt you have considered, whilst pissing yourself over your successful prediction (not), is that in March we were only testing a smaller number of people with COVID symptoms and this is reflected the number of COVID deaths that were reported.

Now we test anyone and many thousands per day. The PCR test is producing a substantial number of false positives, and is also identifying asymptotic cases. Asymptotic by the way means no symptoms and no need for clinical intervention. This means there are far more people being found ‘positive’ by per million of population now than in March and a lot of those are false positives or asymptotic (they are not going to die of COVID even if they have other illnesses).

This means that more people are testing positive before they die from whatever cause than was the case in March. By default then a higher proportion/percentage of deaths now are being linked to COVID than was the case in March. It doesn’t mean that COVID is more prevalent or associated with more deaths, it means more COVID deaths will be reported due to the change in the testing numbers.

Therefore while Inaccurate PCR testing continues/increases so will the number of COVID deaths reported even if they didn’t have COVID or were asymptotic. The increased COVID death reporting now has very little to do with the flow of the virus through the population it’s due to increase testing compared to March.

A large proportion of the people being reported as having died from COVID now have either died with COVID, been falsely identified as having COVID or were asymptotic. In which case they didn’t die from COVID but are being counted as if they were and in far higher numbers than in March .

I doubt you’ll get this or consider it, but just may be you’ll understand a bit more if you listen to the Yeadon podcast.

You may fail to note that I've agreed with the reasoning for the high infection numbers. I'm not going to go into the the accuracy and PCR, but I'm reading a lot of criticism that believes those numbers are also not accurate, and are falling apart as the death rates rise.

We are doing more tests, so will likely show more cases, no one is denying that. What you seem to constantly ignore or excuse, is the death rates are rising.

I've also asked why? You wont tell me why Sweden is working and we are not - just that they have no lockdown. So the angle seems to be anti-lockdown, without providing any insight into why, and how the Sweden approach would have helped the death numbers.

You made a prediction a month ago, which I thought was "brave", and I'm calling you on it. I'm not defending the government, and the actions taken, and probably agree that its a shocking overreach. You seem incapable of understanding that. What I'm not doing is making wild predictions and assumptions about the behaviour of the virus. Its going to kill loads more before its done.

Eh..?
He hasn't ignored or excused anything, you have just replied to a post where he has explained exactly what you say he hasn't!!!!! .

[kiethton]

Jasandjules said:

Mainstream press getting a little more involved

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-ten-worst-...

They just need to have the balls to publish the Danish mask study now or push back against the ofcom guidance which stops anybody trying to criticise the government

[Jasandjules]

kiethton said:

They just need to have the balls to publish the Danish mask study now or push back against the ofcom guidance which stops anybody trying to criticise the government

Yes if that gets published it will be a game changer and actually might help reduce deaths.

Then there is this too

https://scontent.fltn2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12...

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

There are some increased deaths occurring in the north presently because the virus had not completed its normal infection cycle before the initial lockdown, as apposed to London which was hit hard early on and now is very close to achieving ‘herd immunity’. Deaths are very low in the London area and have been for sometime.

This completely disregards the current state of London. My company has 4 offices and at capacity has around 280 people in it, and presently we have 1 open with about 5-10 people per day average in it. (and we are "key" workers). You only need to look at the state of TFL to see public transport has collapsed. Whats clear is a good portion of London's jobs can be done remotely, and are being done so. So is this a good example of herd immunity? Or the fact that people are in general being cautious?

I'll take a photo the next time I go past the Palace. What would have hundreds of tourists usually has about 10 the other day standing in front if it.

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

There are some increased deaths occurring in the north presently because the virus had not completed its normal infection cycle before the initial lockdown, as apposed to London which was hit hard early on and now is very close to achieving ‘herd immunity’. Deaths are very low in the London area and have been for sometime.

This completely disregards the current state of London. My company has 4 offices and at capacity has around 280 people in it, and presently we have 1 open with about 5-10 people per day average in it. (and we are "key" workers). You only need to look at the state of TFL to see public transport has collapsed. Whats clear is a good portion of London's jobs can be done remotely, and are being done so. So is this a good example of herd immunity? Or the fact that people are in general being cautious?

I'll take a photo the next time I go past the Palace. What would have hundreds of tourists usually has about 10 the other day standing in front if it.

What has your company and its decision not to open it offices, along with many others, got to do with the low number of COVID deaths in London and their apparent heard immunity that I explained to you in response to your prior response.

It appears that you are so scared of COVID and the response by other people who have decided they prefer to work at home, that you cant see past the blindingly obvious.

It's like trying to have a debate with someone when one person is speaking about apples and you respond about potatoes. You have completely missed the point again. It's a complete waste of time us communicating. I give up with you. Someone else take over please.

[fastraxx]

Phil. said:

What has your company and its decision not to open it offices, along with many others, got to do with the low number of COVID deaths in London and their apparent heard immunity that I explained to you in response to your prior response.

It appears that you are so scared of COVID and the response by other people who have decided they prefer to work at home, that you cant see past the blindingly obvious.

It's like trying to have a debate with someone when one person is speaking about apples and you respond about potatoes. You have completely missed the point again. It's a complete waste of time us communicating. I give up with you. Someone else take over please.

Awww, little flounce, you ok hun?

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

What has your company and its decision not to open it offices, along with many others, got to do with the low number of COVID deaths in London and their apparent heard immunity that I explained to you in response to your prior response.

It appears that you are so scared of COVID and the response by other people who have decided they prefer to work at home, that you cant see past the blindingly obvious.

It's like trying to have a debate with someone when one person is speaking about apples and you respond about potatoes. You have completely missed the point again. It's a complete waste of time us communicating. I give up with you. Someone else take over please.

Lol. It's incredible how you can find the smallest of random value in some obscure covid denying "facts", but you cant understand that London not being anywhere near operating as usual is maybe a poor case for claiming "herd immunity".

My wife has had it, and likely so have I - although I've not been tested as this was back in Feb, so its hardly fear on my part

[Phil.]

fastraxx said:

Awww, little flounce, you ok hun?

Thanks for asking hun Not a flounce just at the end of my tether after weeks trying to communicate with this person and now admitting failure.