Grassing up a Covid **** taker.
Discussion
grudas said:
NGee said:
I realize that this will come as a shock to you but most people 'laid up in ICUs on ventilators' aren't there due to covid.
https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/details/healthcareis what you'd want to keep an eye on then as the number is literally for covid confirmed.
Confirmed COVID-19 patients in mechanical ventilation beds. Data from the four nations may not be directly comparable as data about COVID-19 patients in hospitals are collected differently. Data are not reported by each nation every day and England data are not available before 2 April. The UK figure is the sum of the four nations' figures and can only be calculated when all nations' data are available.
‘’ Don't believe the scare stories about hospitals running out of ICU beds.’’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/20/dont-b...
NGee said:
Killboy said:
NGee said:
I realize that this will come as a shock to you but most people 'laid up in ICUs on ventilators' aren't there due to covid.
What are they there for?Question: are you really that f
king stupid you couldn't work that out for yourself?
Ever wondered by there is always a shortage of hospital beds in the winter, and why there have been so many trolleys in the corridors for the past few years? That’s during pre-COVID years for the hard of understanding.
‘’The total number of NHS hospital beds in England, including general and acute, mental illness, learning disability, maternity and day-only beds, has more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2018/9, while the number of patients treated has increased significantly.’’
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hosp...
‘’The total number of NHS hospital beds in England, including general and acute, mental illness, learning disability, maternity and day-only beds, has more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2018/9, while the number of patients treated has increased significantly.’’
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hosp...
Phil. said:
COVID worriers and leapers should avoid the radio due to the scaremongering! Facts below but please don’t believe them, just carry on worrying.
https://twitter.com/jon_statistics/status/13213496...
So, this is awkward. Seems the date of death lags a bit. Lets add this to the metrics we track shall we? https://twitter.com/jon_statistics/status/13213496...
This is the latest one.
Killboy said:
How awkward would it be if these numbers were not actually for covid.
They are not all COVID patients using the clinical definition but are being counted as COVID patients by a combination of the government’s inaccurate PCR testing and it’s hospital COVID recoding rules which are designed to maximize the fear in our people and ensure they follow the decrees decided by a bunch of lying and corrupt ministers who are not even accountable to Parliament under the COVID rules they have set up! It’s a disgrace and it’s very dangerous as our liberties are being wrongly constrained by a bunch of control freaks for their own gain.Don’t ask why, further explanation has already been provided on this thread.
Phil. said:
They are not all COVID patients using the clinical definition but are being counted as COVID patients by a combination of the government’s inaccurate PCR testing and it’s hospital COVID recoding rules which are designed to maximize the fear in our people and ensure they follow the decrees decided by a bunch of lying and corrupt ministers who are not even accountable to Parliament under the COVID rules they have set up! It’s a disgrace and it’s very dangerous as our liberties are being wrongly constrained by a bunch of control freaks for their own gain.
Don’t ask why, further explanation has already been provided on this thread.
Well lets just hope the people on ventilators with positive covid tests are being treated for the real illnesses that put them there. Don’t ask why, further explanation has already been provided on this thread.
Phil. said:
Those figures need to be read in context of the overall situation:
‘’ Don't believe the scare stories about hospitals running out of ICU beds.’’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/20/dont-b...
I don't think they're running out yet, especially if you look at the numbers back in april/may etc, there's extra capacity.‘’ Don't believe the scare stories about hospitals running out of ICU beds.’’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/20/dont-b...
but other than beds we need doctors and nurses, those can't really be bought and stored.. so that's another bottle neck if/when the numbers go up.
‘’Macmillan estimate 50K missed cancer diagnosis - a catastrophic 20 month backlog.
They say Govt must learn the lessons from what went wrong during the Spring. "We can’t make the same mistakes again"
But the Govt has not acknowledged a single mistake’’
The government should be made accountable for these unnecessary lost lives!
https://www.macmillan.org.uk/assets/forgotten-c-im...
https://twitter.com/inproportion2/status/132176056...
They say Govt must learn the lessons from what went wrong during the Spring. "We can’t make the same mistakes again"
But the Govt has not acknowledged a single mistake’’
The government should be made accountable for these unnecessary lost lives!
https://www.macmillan.org.uk/assets/forgotten-c-im...
https://twitter.com/inproportion2/status/132176056...
grudas said:
Phil. said:
Those figures need to be read in context of the overall situation:
‘’ Don't believe the scare stories about hospitals running out of ICU beds.’’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/20/dont-b...
I don't think they're running out yet, especially if you look at the numbers back in april/may etc, there's extra capacity.‘’ Don't believe the scare stories about hospitals running out of ICU beds.’’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/20/dont-b...
but other than beds we need doctors and nurses, those can't really be bought and stored.. so that's another bottle neck if/when the numbers go up.
ds out, don’t take our jobs! Says an aging population. Phil. said:
Agreed. But where are the new doctors and nurses going to come from. We can’t produce more overnight in the UK cos’ it takes years to train. I know let’s recruit some from abroad. The EU will have a good supply of highly qualified people. Oops Brexit. Keep the bds out, don’t take our jobs! Says an aging population.
First thing I complete agree with! We are making progress! ds out, don’t take our jobs! Says an aging population. 
Phil. said:
Agreed. But where are the new doctors and nurses going to come from. We can’t produce more overnight in the UK cos’ it takes years to train. I know let’s recruit some from abroad. The EU will have a good supply of highly qualified people. Oops Brexit. Keep the bds out, don’t take our jobs! Says an aging population.
There are plenty of great medics / nurses etc in America and the Philippines. And loads with very specific knowledge and experience in China / India / insert everywhere except the E.U.ds out, don’t take our jobs! Says an aging population. anonymous said:
[redacted]
Very sad to hear but unfortunately the situation for non-COVID ill people is only going to get worse. These are the stories that the papers should highlighting every day rather than scaremongering us with useless COVID case and death facts that are blatantly untrue. May be then some of Johnson's merry followers might just wake up to what is happening to them. I hope this will be case but how many more people will die unnecessarily before they do? Johnson is only going to change his direction when the populist opinion changes as measured by the millions of pounds of your money he is spending (wasting) on YouGov polls to reassure himself that he is still popular. Your perception that hospitals are somehow empty is misguided for several reasons including
1. the need to free up additional beds (e.g. by cancelling elective operations) to be ready for the surge of patients with COVID-19 that we are seeing a doubling of every week or two; those empty beds won't remain empty for long. Indeed if there's an outbreak of COVID amongst uninfected patients in your local hospital which could happen at any point and is happening in a number of hospitals, those empty beds will be needed immediately to receive patients who will need to be quarantined together and all the wards they came from will need to be emptied and deep cleaned..
2. large numbers of staff are off work at any time because of COVID - they may have COVID themselves, and if they aren't sick, they could be self isolating because a household member is self isolating, maybe a child is off school because someone in their class bubble has been infected so the parent has to stay at home to look after them and maybe they themselves are a contact of a case. It's a human resources nightmare trying to keep other services going at full pelt.
3. So around a quarter of ICU beds are occupied with patients with COVD at the moment, and that is going to get bigger as the number of people falling sick enough to need admitting is continuing to grow. That's not speculation, that is fact - we can see that from the increasing rates in older people amongst those currently testing positive as a certain percentage of them will need admitting and a subset of those will need treatment in ICU.
4. In the March surge additional ICU capacity was created by using operating theatres as spillover ICU wards as operating theatres have all the tech that's neded in an ICU.Slight problem with that is you can't schedule any more major surgery when you haven't got any operating theatres left (other than for emergencies).
5. Everything in hospital just takes so much longer because of the ultra stringent infection control precautions needed to keep patients safe from one another, staff safe from one another and patients and staff safe from each other. That means much more spacing out in time and place and really slows everything down. Yet there is a huge backlog waiting and destined to get bigger if we aren't careful.
I could go on but doubt there is any point as people won't believe me when I say that we are under extraordinary pressure in the health service trying to keep the show on the roads whilst preparing for the tidal wave of patients with serious COVID that's already started to hit us and is going to get much worse based on the numbers of older people currently becoming infected and the lack of any leadership from Government about what to do about it. I mean, France, Germany, Spain and Belgium have all gone for pretty strict lockdowns because their health services are coming under extreme pressure. Meanwhile here the areas with the strictest requirements allow me to have a pub lunch with all my mates as long as I can consider it "business".
1. the need to free up additional beds (e.g. by cancelling elective operations) to be ready for the surge of patients with COVID-19 that we are seeing a doubling of every week or two; those empty beds won't remain empty for long. Indeed if there's an outbreak of COVID amongst uninfected patients in your local hospital which could happen at any point and is happening in a number of hospitals, those empty beds will be needed immediately to receive patients who will need to be quarantined together and all the wards they came from will need to be emptied and deep cleaned..
2. large numbers of staff are off work at any time because of COVID - they may have COVID themselves, and if they aren't sick, they could be self isolating because a household member is self isolating, maybe a child is off school because someone in their class bubble has been infected so the parent has to stay at home to look after them and maybe they themselves are a contact of a case. It's a human resources nightmare trying to keep other services going at full pelt.
3. So around a quarter of ICU beds are occupied with patients with COVD at the moment, and that is going to get bigger as the number of people falling sick enough to need admitting is continuing to grow. That's not speculation, that is fact - we can see that from the increasing rates in older people amongst those currently testing positive as a certain percentage of them will need admitting and a subset of those will need treatment in ICU.
4. In the March surge additional ICU capacity was created by using operating theatres as spillover ICU wards as operating theatres have all the tech that's neded in an ICU.Slight problem with that is you can't schedule any more major surgery when you haven't got any operating theatres left (other than for emergencies).
5. Everything in hospital just takes so much longer because of the ultra stringent infection control precautions needed to keep patients safe from one another, staff safe from one another and patients and staff safe from each other. That means much more spacing out in time and place and really slows everything down. Yet there is a huge backlog waiting and destined to get bigger if we aren't careful.
I could go on but doubt there is any point as people won't believe me when I say that we are under extraordinary pressure in the health service trying to keep the show on the roads whilst preparing for the tidal wave of patients with serious COVID that's already started to hit us and is going to get much worse based on the numbers of older people currently becoming infected and the lack of any leadership from Government about what to do about it. I mean, France, Germany, Spain and Belgium have all gone for pretty strict lockdowns because their health services are coming under extreme pressure. Meanwhile here the areas with the strictest requirements allow me to have a pub lunch with all my mates as long as I can consider it "business".
Edited by Chromegrill on Friday 30th October 22:18
Chromegrill said:
Your perception that hospitals are somehow empty is misguided for several reasons including
1. the need to free up additional beds (e.g. by cancelling elective operations) to be ready for the surge of patients with COVID-19 that we are seeing a doubling of every week or two [but still very low numbers]; those empty beds won't remain empty for long [where is the evidence for your opinion] . Indeed if there's an outbreak of COVID amongst uninfected patients in your local hospital which could happen at any point [unless your hospital is incapable of isolating COVID cases] and is happening in a number of hospitals [which hospitals?] , those empty beds will be needed immediately to receive patients who will need to be quarantined together and all the wards they came from will need to be emptied and deep cleaned.. [bks]
2. large numbers of staff are off work at any time because of COVID [where is the evidence to support your statement?] - they may have COVID themselves, and if they aren't sick, they could be self isolating because a household member is self isolating, maybe a child is off school because someone in their class bubble has been infected so the parent has to stay at home to look after them and maybe they themselves are a contact of a case. It's a human resources nightmare trying to keep other services going at full pelt. [complete bks]
3. So around a quarter of ICU beds [evidence please] are occupied with patients with COVD at the moment, and that is going to get bigger as the number of people falling sick enough to need admitting is continuing to grow [Because everyone in hospital now whatever their illness is now with COVID!] . That's not speculation [oh yes it is!] , that is fact [nope!] - we [who?] can see that from the increasing rates [deaths or cases?] in older people amongst those currently testing positive as a certain percentage of them will need admitting and a subset of those will need treatment in ICU. [really - enlightening given the average age of a COVID death remaisn at 84!]
4. In the March surge [One and only pandemic] additional ICU capacity was created by using operating theatres as spillover ICU wards as operating theatres have all the tech that's neded in an ICU.Slight problem with that is you can't schedule any more major surgery when you haven't got any operating theatres left (other than for emergencies). [Please provide the justification for this statement]
5. Everything in hospital just takes so much longer because of the ultra stringent infection control precautions needed to keep patients safe from one another, staff safe from one another and patients and staff safe from each other. [The NHS has become the National COVID Service - NCS!] That means much more spacing out in time and place and really slows everything down. Yet there is a huge backlog waiting and destined to get bigger if we aren't careful. [The backlog are the poor individuals not receiving treatment for non-COVID illnesses and dying unnecessarily as a result. What to do mean by being CAREFUL? The fking masks and lockdowns aren't working are they! The bloody government isn't being CAREFUL!]
I could go on [please don't] but doubt there is any point as people won't believe me [no we wont] when I say that we are under extraordinary pressure in the health service [please tell us all about your role in the health service] trying to keep the show on the roads whilst preparing for the tidal wave of patients with serious COVID that's already started to hit us [Are you a fking government bot?] and is going to get much worse based on the numbers of older people currently becoming infected and the lack of any leadership from Government about what to do about it. [The government are leading you in to never ending lockdowns and restrictions on your civil liberties never seen for 200 years!] I mean, France, Germany, Spain and Belgium have all gone for pretty strict lockdowns because their health services are coming under extreme pressure. [Lets follow the others!] Meanwhile here the areas with the strictest requirements allow me to have a pub lunch with all my mates as long as I can consider it "business". [Definitely a government bot not a real person or may be you are a Johnson follower!]
So much s1. the need to free up additional beds (e.g. by cancelling elective operations) to be ready for the surge of patients with COVID-19 that we are seeing a doubling of every week or two [but still very low numbers]; those empty beds won't remain empty for long [where is the evidence for your opinion] . Indeed if there's an outbreak of COVID amongst uninfected patients in your local hospital which could happen at any point [unless your hospital is incapable of isolating COVID cases] and is happening in a number of hospitals [which hospitals?] , those empty beds will be needed immediately to receive patients who will need to be quarantined together and all the wards they came from will need to be emptied and deep cleaned.. [b
ks] 2. large numbers of staff are off work at any time because of COVID [where is the evidence to support your statement?] - they may have COVID themselves, and if they aren't sick, they could be self isolating because a household member is self isolating, maybe a child is off school because someone in their class bubble has been infected so the parent has to stay at home to look after them and maybe they themselves are a contact of a case. It's a human resources nightmare trying to keep other services going at full pelt. [complete b
ks] 3. So around a quarter of ICU beds [evidence please] are occupied with patients with COVD at the moment, and that is going to get bigger as the number of people falling sick enough to need admitting is continuing to grow [Because everyone in hospital now whatever their illness is now with COVID!] . That's not speculation [oh yes it is!] , that is fact [nope!] - we [who?] can see that from the increasing rates [deaths or cases?] in older people amongst those currently testing positive as a certain percentage of them will need admitting and a subset of those will need treatment in ICU. [really - enlightening given the average age of a COVID death remaisn at 84!]
4. In the March surge [One and only pandemic] additional ICU capacity was created by using operating theatres as spillover ICU wards as operating theatres have all the tech that's neded in an ICU.Slight problem with that is you can't schedule any more major surgery when you haven't got any operating theatres left (other than for emergencies). [Please provide the justification for this statement]
5. Everything in hospital just takes so much longer because of the ultra stringent infection control precautions needed to keep patients safe from one another, staff safe from one another and patients and staff safe from each other. [The NHS has become the National COVID Service - NCS!] That means much more spacing out in time and place and really slows everything down. Yet there is a huge backlog waiting and destined to get bigger if we aren't careful. [The backlog are the poor individuals not receiving treatment for non-COVID illnesses and dying unnecessarily as a result. What to do mean by being CAREFUL? The f
king masks and lockdowns aren't working are they! The bloody government isn't being CAREFUL!] I could go on [please don't] but doubt there is any point as people won't believe me [no we wont] when I say that we are under extraordinary pressure in the health service [please tell us all about your role in the health service] trying to keep the show on the roads whilst preparing for the tidal wave of patients with serious COVID that's already started to hit us [Are you a f
king government bot?] and is going to get much worse based on the numbers of older people currently becoming infected and the lack of any leadership from Government about what to do about it. [The government are leading you in to never ending lockdowns and restrictions on your civil liberties never seen for 200 years!] I mean, France, Germany, Spain and Belgium have all gone for pretty strict lockdowns because their health services are coming under extreme pressure. [Lets follow the others!] Meanwhile here the areas with the strictest requirements allow me to have a pub lunch with all my mates as long as I can consider it "business". [Definitely a government bot not a real person or may be you are a Johnson follower!] Edited by Chromegrill on Friday 30th October 22:18
t I am suffocating. If you are real feel free to PM me and reveal yourself! 
Chromegrill said:
Your perception that hospitals are somehow empty is misguided for several reasons including
I know a few doctors and nurses and as I have noted before one who works in ICU. They are not aware of this incredibly busy hospital you describe (and I should note that they work across a few different counties as well) - their view is the levels are similar if not a little lower than is normal for this time of year (and one has commented they seem to be losing fewer patients too, which I put down to people dying at home instead but I have no evidence to support that). The GP I know however is almost in tears at the workload.......ETA - well the law of sod just kicked me in the butt, I now have a single nurse who is complaining she is busy.. This is in Essex. Not a Covid ward though.
Edited by Jasandjules on Saturday 31st October 10:10
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