Grassing up a Covid **** taker.

[Phil.]

Jasandjules said:

I know a few doctors and nurses and as I have noted before one who works in ICU. They are not aware of this incredibly busy hospital you describe (and I should note that they work across a few different counties as well) - their view is the levels are similar if not a little lower than is normal for this time of year (and one has commented they seem to be losing fewer patients too, which I put down to people dying at home instead but I have no evidence to support that). The GP I know however is almost in tears at the workload.......

There’s quite a lot of evidence to suggest that home deaths have increased under COVID restrictions.

[Jasandjules]

Some more data that shows this is a complete scam.

https://twitter.com/Francis_Hoar/status/1322529832...

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

Where have you been Evan? I’ve missed you this week. Fed up with your lockdown and not being able to buy a new kettle?

Rather than waste time on you Phil. I've been confronting the Covid deniers polluting the local Facebook groups.


He makes claims about T-cell based immunity that are not supported by the literature.

"Their immune systems will never forget those encounters. This, again, is how it works. There isn’t any substantial doubt about this."

Is an example where he's overstated the science and it is not supported across the literature.

Further, he also overstates the known importance of existing T-cells in providing immunity or reducing the effect of CV19. He makes the fatal assumption that T cells chared from SARS and common-cold Corona Viruses will provide protection, but he has no evidence to back that up. The fact is that immunity is incredibly complex, and whilst I agree that focusing on anti-bodies entirely is misdirected, it's also wrong to make the opposite assumption (which he does, repeatedly).

[98elise]

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

Agreed. But where are the new doctors and nurses going to come from. We can’t produce more overnight in the UK cos’ it takes years to train. I know let’s recruit some from abroad. The EU will have a good supply of highly qualified people. Oops Brexit. Keep the bds out, don’t take our jobs! Says an aging population.

First thing I complete agree with! We are making progress!

I hate to break it to you both, but Brexit doesn't mean what you think it means. Qualified doctors and nurses were welcome before Brexit, and will be after Brexit.

It may surprise you to know that we didn't only recruit from inside the EU.

Brexit is done, get used to it

[Killboy]

Is Phil okay?

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

Is Phil okay?

Thanks for checking up on me.

I been travelling to my second home in Spain today. As you can see the airport was empty but at least the plane was half full and not a COVID Worrier in sight.

I nearly aborted this morning after reading the press scaremongering. So glad I didn’t. If Boris locksdown this week and things remain the same where I am in Spain, then I may well extend my visit. It felt so good to get out and catch a flight as normal. First time for me since Feb this year as I drove down to Spain in the summer. The feeling of normality is so underrated and has such a major positive impact on mental health.

It was 23C when I landed at 5pm local time. I’ll send you some sunny pics tomorrow

[Phil.]

Evanivitch said:

Rather than waste time on you Phil. I've been confronting the Covid deniers polluting the local Facebook groups.


He makes claims about T-cell based immunity that are not supported by the literature.

"Their immune systems will never forget those encounters. This, again, is how it works. There isn’t any substantial doubt about this."

Is an example where he's overstated the science and it is not supported across the literature.

Further, he also overstates the known importance of existing T-cells in providing immunity or reducing the effect of CV19. He makes the fatal assumption that T cells chared from SARS and common-cold Corona Viruses will provide protection, but he has no evidence to back that up. The fact is that immunity is incredibly complex, and whilst I agree that focusing on anti-bodies entirely is misdirected, it's also wrong to make the opposite assumption (which he does, repeatedly).

Who’s he? And where did you get this unscientific drivel?

[Phil.]

Jasandjules said:

Some more data that shows this is a complete scam.

https://twitter.com/Francis_Hoar/status/1322529832...

[markyb_lcy]

Evanivitch said:

Phil. said:

Where have you been Evan? I’ve missed you this week. Fed up with your lockdown and not being able to buy a new kettle?

Rather than waste time on you Phil. I've been confronting the Covid deniers polluting the local Facebook groups.


He makes claims about T-cell based immunity that are not supported by the literature.

"Their immune systems will never forget those encounters. This, again, is how it works. There isn’t any substantial doubt about this."

Is an example where he's overstated the science and it is not supported across the literature.

Further, he also overstates the known importance of existing T-cells in providing immunity or reducing the effect of CV19. He makes the fatal assumption that T cells chared from SARS and common-cold Corona Viruses will provide protection, but he has no evidence to back that up. The fact is that immunity is incredibly complex, and whilst I agree that focusing on anti-bodies entirely is misdirected, it's also wrong to make the opposite assumption (which he does, repeatedly).

And this is someone you paint as a “covid denier”?

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

Who’s he? And where did you get this unscientific drivel?

Your Messiah, Mike Yeadon.

You don't have even a working understanding of the immune system then

[Phil.]

98elise said:

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

Agreed. But where are the new doctors and nurses going to come from. We can’t produce more overnight in the UK cos’ it takes years to train. I know let’s recruit some from abroad. The EU will have a good supply of highly qualified people. Oops Brexit. Keep the bds out, don’t take our jobs! Says an aging population.

First thing I complete agree with! We are making progress!

I hate to break it to you both, but Brexit doesn't mean what you think it means. Qualified doctors and nurses were welcome before Brexit, and will be after Brexit.

It may surprise you to know that we didn't only recruit from inside the EU.

Brexit is done, get used to it

But will they still want to live and work in the UK post Brexit when we are no longer a member of the EU, and we are being governed by liars and thieves?

It’s about time we started our application to rejoin the EU

[Phil.]

Evanivitch said:

Phil. said:

Who’s he? And where did you get this unscientific drivel?

Your Messiah, Mike Yeadon.

You don't have even a working understanding of the immune system then

I’ll take Dr Yeadon’s scientifically informed opinion over your uninformed opinion any day

Answer me this. Dr Yeadon has stated on several occasions that Valance is a liar yet Vallance hasn’t responded and is taking no action to defend his reputation. Why?

[Phil.]

I see from the DM that Boris is shutting down the UK this week. Very pleased I escaped the UK today. Enjoy

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

I’ll take Dr Yeadon’s scientifically informed opinion over your uninformed opinion any day

Answer me this. Dr Yeadon has stated on several occasions that Valance is a liar yet Vallance hasn’t responded and is taking no action to defend his reputation. Why?

For the same reason Vallance hasn't responded to you, he's irrelevant.

Can you find where Dr Yeadon references a paper that says T-cells are the definitive measure of prior immunity? He doesn't. He just makes grand statements and ignores B-cells entirely. He's guilty of the exact same thing he accuses SAGE of.

[otolith]

Phil. said:

Jasandjules said:

Anyways, as no-one bothered to answer whether the PCR test, which is of course not terribly important in the current situation and is in no way being relied upon, can determine whether CV19 is present.

The answer is found at page 6 here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...Ctin_SARS-CoV-2_RT-PCR_.pdf

For the simple of understanding and the lazy, here is the point J&J is referring to from P6 of this Public Health England paper:

‘’PCR detects presence of viral genetic material in a sample but is not able to distinguish whether infectious virus is present.’’

That is not news to anyone with a basic scientific education - what significance are you and Jas attaching to this?

[markyb_lcy]

Evanivitch said:

Phil. said:

I’ll take Dr Yeadon’s scientifically informed opinion over your uninformed opinion any day

Answer me this. Dr Yeadon has stated on several occasions that Valance is a liar yet Vallance hasn’t responded and is taking no action to defend his reputation. Why?

For the same reason Vallance hasn't responded to you, he's irrelevant.

Can you find where Dr Yeadon references a paper that says T-cells are the definitive measure of prior immunity? He doesn't. He just makes grand statements and ignores B-cells entirely. He's guilty of the exact same thing he accuses SAGE of.

What’s your scientific background?

[Evanivitch]

markyb_lcy said:

What’s your scientific background?

Unless I'm willing to share personally identifying information on a car forum, what would be the point of stating my credentials just for you to dispute it?

[markyb_lcy]

Evanivitch said:

markyb_lcy said:

What’s your scientific background?

Unless I'm willing to share personally identifying information on a car forum, what would be the point of stating my credentials just for you to dispute it?

I think you’re being a bit unfair suggesting I’m intending to dispute anything.

You’re making assertions about another scientist that does have credentials to back up their claims.

I was merely asking about yours. I’m not sure why telling us your credentials (you wouldn’t need to include names of institutions) could be used to identify you.

Also, fwiw I have absolutely no intention of personally identifying you. You seem awfully defensive.

[Evanivitch]

markyb_lcy said:

I think you’re being a bit unfair suggesting I’m intending to dispute anything.

So you'd just take whatever I claimed my credentials to be on face value?

markyb_lcy said:

You’re making assertions about another scientist that does have credentials to back up their claims.

You're sort of missing the point. If he wants to claim that T cells are the definitive measure of pre-existing immunity then he should easily be able to reference a study that evidences it. But he didn't. And he won't.

markyb_lcy said:

I was merely asking about yours. I’m not sure why telling us your credentials (you wouldn’t need to include names of institutions) could be used to identify you.

Also, fwiw I have absolutely no intention of personally identifying you. You seem awfully defensive.

Then you don't understand how easy it can be to trace people with fragments of information.

[Phil.]

otolith said:

Phil. said:

Jasandjules said:

Anyways, as no-one bothered to answer whether the PCR test, which is of course not terribly important in the current situation and is in no way being relied upon, can determine whether CV19 is present.

The answer is found at page 6 here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...Ctin_SARS-CoV-2_RT-PCR_.pdf

For the simple of understanding and the lazy, here is the point J&J is referring to from P6 of this Public Health England paper:

‘’PCR detects presence of viral genetic material in a sample but is not able to distinguish whether infectious virus is present.’’

That is not news to anyone with a basic scientific education - what significance are you and Jas attaching to this?

The significance is pretty obvious! If not have a long think about it