What offence has been committed?
Discussion
Background .... I live on the corner of a residential t-junction. We have a front garden, which is box hedged (only about 1ft high). Next to that we have a regular-sized footpath, then a grass verge (approx 3ft width), and then the road.
This morning we come down to find that a car has driven over our front garden, knocked over and smashed one of those concrete yellow 'H' signs, and ruined the edge of our box hedge. Fortunately, the driver missed our cars by inches and also missed an 8ft parking restriction sign.
From the evidence I had it appears that a car drove up the road, turned the corner sharply to turn into our road. There's a tyre track on the road, footpath, across our grass and then on the footpath again on other side of the garden.
I then get a call from my neighbour to say that at 1:30 this morning they saw what happened and that the car parked up around the corner ..... with a broken numberplate (from the 'H' sign) and half of my box hedge stuck up under his engine bay ....
The drivers window was wide open and the car tax has expired (2 days ago).
I took numerous pics of the car and of the damage.
The car belongs to a guy who lives in a house full of potential ASBOs - causing no-end of grief for their neighbours. However, they are always freindly and polite to Mrs. Kinky.
Anyhow - we're extremely pissed off by this, but we're unsure whether to report it to the BiB. Why? Because, firstly nothing will formally come of it, and secondly there would be absolutely no chance of any recompense for the damage.
Mrs. K has suggested she goes speak in their shell-like and politely request circa £100 to repair the damage and that would be the end of it. I'm all for throwing the book at them - but based on recent experience, nothing will come of it.
We can't prove who the driver was and if he was sober.
I'm wondering if anyone knows what offences have been committed and what the likely punishments would be for them - ie points/fine - assuming the BiB did follow this up.
Apologies for the long post, but I'm well hacked off and feel better now.
And breathe ......
K
>> Edited by Kinky on Saturday 2nd July 13:50
>> Edited by Kinky on Saturday 2nd July 15:32
This morning we come down to find that a car has driven over our front garden, knocked over and smashed one of those concrete yellow 'H' signs, and ruined the edge of our box hedge. Fortunately, the driver missed our cars by inches and also missed an 8ft parking restriction sign.
From the evidence I had it appears that a car drove up the road, turned the corner sharply to turn into our road. There's a tyre track on the road, footpath, across our grass and then on the footpath again on other side of the garden.
I then get a call from my neighbour to say that at 1:30 this morning they saw what happened and that the car parked up around the corner ..... with a broken numberplate (from the 'H' sign) and half of my box hedge stuck up under his engine bay ....
The drivers window was wide open and the car tax has expired (2 days ago).
I took numerous pics of the car and of the damage.
The car belongs to a guy who lives in a house full of potential ASBOs - causing no-end of grief for their neighbours. However, they are always freindly and polite to Mrs. Kinky.
Anyhow - we're extremely pissed off by this, but we're unsure whether to report it to the BiB. Why? Because, firstly nothing will formally come of it, and secondly there would be absolutely no chance of any recompense for the damage.
Mrs. K has suggested she goes speak in their shell-like and politely request circa £100 to repair the damage and that would be the end of it. I'm all for throwing the book at them - but based on recent experience, nothing will come of it.
We can't prove who the driver was and if he was sober.
I'm wondering if anyone knows what offences have been committed and what the likely punishments would be for them - ie points/fine - assuming the BiB did follow this up.
Apologies for the long post, but I'm well hacked off and feel better now.
And breathe ......
K
>> Edited by Kinky on Saturday 2nd July 13:50
>> Edited by Kinky on Saturday 2nd July 15:32
Thanks TB.
I should add that we're proud of our front garden.
We re-landscaped it 7 years ago, and 6 years ago we were runners-up for best garden in Berkshire!
We knew nothing about it until an award was posted to us!
An update .... Mrs. K was so livid she could not wait any longer so went over and confronted them ..... they had a look of innocence and denial .... until she dropped the bombshell that we have 2 witnesses at which point one for guys said "ah, erm, well, Bens not here at the moment". Mrs. K told him that 'Ben' has until 6 to get his butt over here.
Or she'll send the heavies over (ie - ME
)
I'm praying he turns up before 6.
K
K
I should add that we're proud of our front garden.
We re-landscaped it 7 years ago, and 6 years ago we were runners-up for best garden in Berkshire!
We knew nothing about it until an award was posted to us!
An update .... Mrs. K was so livid she could not wait any longer so went over and confronted them ..... they had a look of innocence and denial .... until she dropped the bombshell that we have 2 witnesses at which point one for guys said "ah, erm, well, Bens not here at the moment". Mrs. K told him that 'Ben' has until 6 to get his butt over here.
Or she'll send the heavies over (ie - ME
) I'm praying he turns up before 6.
K
K
Events leading up to the accident:
Careless driving.
No Insurance?
No Excise?
No MOT?
No Driving Licence/ drive other than under the conditions of a Licence.?
Drive whilst disqualified?
Drive under influence drink/drugs - bit late for this now.
Maybe TWOC - the get out clause.
At time of accident:
Owing to the presence of a m /vehicle on a road, an accident occurs, which causes damage to property constructed on, affixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land where the road is or land adjacent, then:
Obligation to STOP - which it seems it did- and to give any person having reasonable grounds for requiring same drivers name and address, owners details and particulars of the vehicle involved.
If this isn't done the further obligation to as soon as practicable and in any case within 24 hours report this to the Police. Offence not to do so. From what you say hardly likely to have done so. But you never know???????????
Courses of action:
As stated personal approach to recover your damages and if not paid then consider civil action through small claims Court against the owner of the car. They also sound persons of straw so could be whistling in the wind.
Because of the number of offences having been committed then report a hit and run to BiB. If there is an ASBO on the driver then they may be interested, despite no injury, in following it up.
.... just read you extra post whilst typing this. Hit them with the numberof offences likely to be committed which could turn out more expensive than the repair to the hedge. Be a terrier worry them to get a result.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Saturday 2nd July 15:29
Careless driving.
No Insurance?
No Excise?
No MOT?
No Driving Licence/ drive other than under the conditions of a Licence.?
Drive whilst disqualified?
Drive under influence drink/drugs - bit late for this now.
Maybe TWOC - the get out clause.
At time of accident:
Owing to the presence of a m /vehicle on a road, an accident occurs, which causes damage to property constructed on, affixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land where the road is or land adjacent, then:
Obligation to STOP - which it seems it did- and to give any person having reasonable grounds for requiring same drivers name and address, owners details and particulars of the vehicle involved.
If this isn't done the further obligation to as soon as practicable and in any case within 24 hours report this to the Police. Offence not to do so. From what you say hardly likely to have done so. But you never know???????????
Courses of action:
As stated personal approach to recover your damages and if not paid then consider civil action through small claims Court against the owner of the car. They also sound persons of straw so could be whistling in the wind.
Because of the number of offences having been committed then report a hit and run to BiB. If there is an ASBO on the driver then they may be interested, despite no injury, in following it up.
.... just read you extra post whilst typing this. Hit them with the numberof offences likely to be committed which could turn out more expensive than the repair to the hedge. Be a terrier worry them to get a result.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Saturday 2nd July 15:29
DvD,
Thank you so so much, for yet another comprehensive, detailed and extremely useful response, and is exactly what I was looking for.
I must confess to reading to your many responses with great interest.
I'll update you as and when anything happens.
K
P.S. - If I don't post for a few weeks, then you can probably guess that 'Ben' never turned up before 6, and the heavies (me) had to go and speak to them resulting in a few weeks in hospital.
Thank you so so much, for yet another comprehensive, detailed and extremely useful response, and is exactly what I was looking for.
I must confess to reading to your many responses with great interest.
I'll update you as and when anything happens.
K
P.S. - If I don't post for a few weeks, then you can probably guess that 'Ben' never turned up before 6, and the heavies (me) had to go and speak to them resulting in a few weeks in hospital.
Minor update ...
2 of 'Bens' mate came over to have a look .... apparantly he mentioned to them that he 'clipped' the kerb' last night, but no more then that.
I wonder if they were the other 2 that were in the car?
Anyhow, no sign of Ben yet, and we've decided that should he not turn up by 6, then we're going to call the BiB to report him for careless driving and failing to report an accident.
Mrs. K knows the local fire boys very well, so she'll pop up there Monday to find out who 'owns' the yellow 'H' sign, cost to replace, etc, etc .....
K
2 of 'Bens' mate came over to have a look .... apparantly he mentioned to them that he 'clipped' the kerb' last night, but no more then that.
I wonder if they were the other 2 that were in the car?
Anyhow, no sign of Ben yet, and we've decided that should he not turn up by 6, then we're going to call the BiB to report him for careless driving and failing to report an accident.
Mrs. K knows the local fire boys very well, so she'll pop up there Monday to find out who 'owns' the yellow 'H' sign, cost to replace, etc, etc .....
K
well, 6:00pm came and went, so Mrs. K phoned the local BiB (Thames Valley).
They took the details, gave us a ref. number and then told us to go in person to Bracknell nick (one of old haunts) tomorrow morning, so that the necessary forms can be completed!
I was a bit livid about this, so I phoned them to ask why, and I was simply told that's the way it is - the form can only be completed at the nick with us there.
The old dys where they come to you, saw the scene for themselves, and did the necessary paperwork seems to have gone right out the window
K
They took the details, gave us a ref. number and then told us to go in person to Bracknell nick (one of old haunts) tomorrow morning, so that the necessary forms can be completed!
I was a bit livid about this, so I phoned them to ask why, and I was simply told that's the way it is - the form can only be completed at the nick with us there.
The old dys where they come to you, saw the scene for themselves, and did the necessary paperwork seems to have gone right out the window
K
Kinky said:
well, 6:00pm came and went, so Mrs. K phoned the local BiB (Thames Valley).
The old dys where they come to you, saw the scene for themselves, and did the necessary paperwork seems to have gone right out the window
K
This has nothing to do with the old days!
The fact is you cannot make a report of an RTC over the phone. It has always been so. You MUST eitherattend the nick or report to a constable as soon as reasonably practicable AND in any case within 24 hours.
It is policy not to send units out to historical RTC incidents unless the car has been involved in a crime and is still at the scene.
FTS and report RTC is not a criminal offence.
Having a constable attend your address to look at a wheel mark and the place where a part of a box hedge used to be is nice but not strictly necessary as you can tell them about it when you write your statement!
Bracknell officers are at this moment extremely busy with more serious stuff than uprooted gardens (not taking away the personal impact of this on your feelings about it!).
By phoning in and getting the complaint logged on the command and control system, you have a reasonable chance of having this dealt with properly. If you have problems with this post them on here as I have some influence in matters such as this at Bracknell
Gone,
Thanks for the reply.
I do fully appreciate that a box hedge is bottom of the priority list and I have no concerns or issues about that at all.
I'll get down there tomorrow and see what happens.
But I could honestly have sworn that I've been called out to take statements for similiar happenings, and see for ourselves, in the past. And then have words with the party concerned ... hence my 'old days' reference.
K
Thanks for the reply.
I do fully appreciate that a box hedge is bottom of the priority list and I have no concerns or issues about that at all.
I'll get down there tomorrow and see what happens.
But I could honestly have sworn that I've been called out to take statements for similiar happenings, and see for ourselves, in the past. And then have words with the party concerned ... hence my 'old days' reference.
K
Well, in summary .... went to the nick, spoke to civvie on the desk, gave her the reference number, told she can't help as she can't access 'that' system, told us not to bother doing anything as nothing would come of it, took details anyway.
The best advice she could give us was to claim it on the insurance.
Case closed.
However, faith in humanity has been restored.
Mrs. K went over to see if he was there - but he was in bed. She said she'd come back later and was walking back when he came running after her ... rather sheepish ... willing to pay for all costs and will contact the fire station to enquire how to replace the 'H' sign.
K
>> Edited by Kinky on Sunday 3rd July 18:36
The best advice she could give us was to claim it on the insurance.
Case closed.
However, faith in humanity has been restored.
Mrs. K went over to see if he was there - but he was in bed. She said she'd come back later and was walking back when he came running after her ... rather sheepish ... willing to pay for all costs and will contact the fire station to enquire how to replace the 'H' sign.
K
>> Edited by Kinky on Sunday 3rd July 18:36
>>>>>>>>>>> went to the nick, spoke to civvie on the desk, gave her the reference number, told she can't help as she can't access 'that' system, told us not to bother doing anything as nothing would come of it, took details anyway.<<<<<<<<
As I and other old Plods believe they are taking over and dictating policy. Ten to one if this had been 'investigated' a heap of traffic offences would have come to light.
DVD
As I and other old Plods believe they are taking over and dictating policy. Ten to one if this had been 'investigated' a heap of traffic offences would have come to light.
DVD
DVD,
What ever happened to community poicing ? The local beat bobby living within the community and building trust and relationships. They were often ridiculed in my days serving but certainly served a valid purpose in circumstances such as these outlined.
So now the innocent 'victim' has to drive to the police station to be told by a front desk civvie that they are wasting their time. Great ....
What ever happened to community poicing ? The local beat bobby living within the community and building trust and relationships. They were often ridiculed in my days serving but certainly served a valid purpose in circumstances such as these outlined.
So now the innocent 'victim' has to drive to the police station to be told by a front desk civvie that they are wasting their time. Great ....
That is honestly what she told us.
I requested that she process it anyway - in the chance that something might come of it.
At the very very least, I would hope that he'll be given a producer, which would then highlight any 'secondary' offences - tax, insurance, MOT, license, etc, etc.
And one minor irritation with the Civvie - she kept referring to everything in 'internal-speak' - the APJ or APO in reading for example.
She was polite and courteous, until the point where she had to complete a form - where she chucked it on the desk and it slid across - was obvious she did did not want to do it.
Anyhow - suffice to say - I'm not BiB or Civvie bashing by any means - I know only too well exactly the stresses and strains they are under and have the utmost respect for them.
But with incidents like this - firstly people just won't bother to complain anymore (so lower crime rates?), but more importantly people will get away with more and more, and the whole basic decency and respect for neighbours, etc is slowly eroding away.
Unfortunately, locally, the BiB are not flavour of the month. We have an ongoing issue with traffic causing obstructions on the A30 near where we live, where everyone has complained about it - but the Parish and Borough Council have told the BiB to ignore all these offences !!!!!! So endorsable offences, carried out by about 12-15 cars per day, every day, are simply being ignored.
I would have thought it would be rich-pickings for them , money for old rope, etc, etc - but clearly not.
K
I requested that she process it anyway - in the chance that something might come of it.
At the very very least, I would hope that he'll be given a producer, which would then highlight any 'secondary' offences - tax, insurance, MOT, license, etc, etc.
And one minor irritation with the Civvie - she kept referring to everything in 'internal-speak' - the APJ or APO in reading for example.
She was polite and courteous, until the point where she had to complete a form - where she chucked it on the desk and it slid across - was obvious she did did not want to do it.
Anyhow - suffice to say - I'm not BiB or Civvie bashing by any means - I know only too well exactly the stresses and strains they are under and have the utmost respect for them.
But with incidents like this - firstly people just won't bother to complain anymore (so lower crime rates?), but more importantly people will get away with more and more, and the whole basic decency and respect for neighbours, etc is slowly eroding away.
Unfortunately, locally, the BiB are not flavour of the month. We have an ongoing issue with traffic causing obstructions on the A30 near where we live, where everyone has complained about it - but the Parish and Borough Council have told the BiB to ignore all these offences !!!!!! So endorsable offences, carried out by about 12-15 cars per day, every day, are simply being ignored.
I would have thought it would be rich-pickings for them , money for old rope, etc, etc - but clearly not.
K
Kinky said:
I think I'll apply to become a magistrate - I've been thinking of it for ages now (following a thread on here about a year+ ago).
So that those who do come before me (should I ever get there) would be properly punished and not let off with just a ticking-off.
K
Needs about 26 half days a year of commitment on your part to become a mag and you should lead "A blameless life" so as not to bring the system into disrepute. I looked into it myself, but just can't spare that level of time at this point in my life. Perhaps that's why mag's are generally older.
I wouldn't want to be a
In my area there's usually about seventy unanswered shouts on any given evening over the weekend. The problem is manpower, pure and simple. Perhaps if those that ran the shop at a high level didn't insist on all this form filling there would be time to attend to the job of actually policing the streets.Yeah - I'm aware of the time required (I thought it was 32 half-days per year, plus a few full-day sittings).
Anyhow - my company gives you time off for this, with no penalty against your holidays, etc, etc ...
I used to be a Special - not because I wanted to join the regulars (cos I don't), but because I wanted to help out in my community.
I eventually had to give it up due to idiotic internal politics. Quite frankly I had no time for it. I've got a serious job and don't tolerate it at work, and fail to see why I should suffer it, with a voluntary job.
>> Edited by Kinky on Monday 4th July 12:10
Anyhow - my company gives you time off for this, with no penalty against your holidays, etc, etc ...
I used to be a Special - not because I wanted to join the regulars (cos I don't), but because I wanted to help out in my community.
I eventually had to give it up due to idiotic internal politics. Quite frankly I had no time for it. I've got a serious job and don't tolerate it at work, and fail to see why I should suffer it, with a voluntary job.
>> Edited by Kinky on Monday 4th July 12:10
Kinky said:
Well, in summary .... went to the nick, spoke to civvie on the desk, gave her the reference number, told she can't help as she can't access 'that' system, told us not to bother doing anything as nothing would come of it, took details anyway.
The best advice she could give us was to claim it on the insurance.
Case closed.
depressing but usually the way these days,
BliarOut said:
I wouldn't want to be a
The odd thing is how there are apparently all these extra police officers around, the amount of council tax I pay the police year on year goes up, but I see less and less police as I go about my daily business.
Recently I have been doing some work in our community and one of the things investigated was response times. The local fire service and Ambulance service both alledgedly hit their quite tight targets. The police come nowhere near, despite having over twice as long as the other services to get there. The police blame the rural nature of the area. That obviously doesn;t apply to the other two services!
The real answer is that at night and in the evenings there are only two police cars covering a large area, and once they get called to an arguement at a pub at closing time there's no one left! Something tells me there might be too many chiefs and not enough workers.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff