Can I go for a recreational drive out?

[mikeiow]

Gareth79 said:

Pothole said:

Show me how the tier 3 regulations are different specifically relative to the OP;s question, please.

"Restrictions on leaving home 1.—(1) No person who lives in the Tier 4 area may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse."

OP does not live in a Tier 4 area therefore it does not apply to them. That restriction does not exist in the Tier 3 section.

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 16:16

Keep quoting the guidance as though it is the Law......
Next week, move on to figuring out the difference

[Gareth79]

mikeiow said:

Gareth79 said:

Pothole said:

Show me how the tier 3 regulations are different specifically relative to the OP;s question, please.

"Restrictions on leaving home 1.—(1) No person who lives in the Tier 4 area may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse."

OP does not live in a Tier 4 area therefore it does not apply to them. That restriction does not exist in the Tier 3 section.

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 16:16

Keep quoting the guidance as though it is the Law......
Next week, move on to figuring out the difference

That was a direct quote from the law.

[Louis Balfour]

Gareth79 said:

That was a direct quote from the law.

Is that the law where the first word on the page is "guidance"?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

[Gareth79]

Louis Balfour said:

Gareth79 said:

That was a direct quote from the law.

Is that the law where the first word on the page is "guidance"?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

No, the text I quoted is not anywhere on that page, I quoted it from the actual law.

edit: It's hardly rocket science, here's the restrictions in Tier 3: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...
And here's Tier 4: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 17:12

[ddom]

[Louis Balfour]

Gareth79 said:

Louis Balfour said:

Gareth79 said:

That was a direct quote from the law.

Is that the law where the first word on the page is "guidance"?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

No, the text I quoted is not anywhere on that page, I quoted it from the actual law.

edit: It's hardly rocket science, here's the restrictions in Tier 3: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...
And here's Tier 4: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 17:12

Well clearly it is a bit tricky, because until you edited your post you'd linked to the wrong page.

[Pothole]

Gareth79 said:

Louis Balfour said:

Gareth79 said:

That was a direct quote from the law.

Is that the law where the first word on the page is "guidance"?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

No, the text I quoted is not anywhere on that page, I quoted it from the actual law.

edit: It's hardly rocket science, here's the restrictions in Tier 3: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...
And here's Tier 4: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 17:12

What's the answer the to OP's question?

[survivalist]

Pothole said:

Gareth79 said:

Louis Balfour said:

Gareth79 said:

That was a direct quote from the law.

Is that the law where the first word on the page is "guidance"?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

No, the text I quoted is not anywhere on that page, I quoted it from the actual law.

edit: It's hardly rocket science, here's the restrictions in Tier 3: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...
And here's Tier 4: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 17:12

What's the answer the to OP's question?

Go for a drive. Won’t get stopped. The end.

Tier 4 isn’t lockdown though, so disappointingly traffic won’t be as light as it was back in April.

[A1VDY]

mikeiow said:

Gareth79 said:

Pothole said:

Show me how the tier 3 regulations are different specifically relative to the OP;s question, please.

"Restrictions on leaving home 1.—(1) No person who lives in the Tier 4 area may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse."

OP does not live in a Tier 4 area therefore it does not apply to them. That restriction does not exist in the Tier 3 section.

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 16:16

Keep quoting the guidance as though it is the Law......
Next week, move on to figuring out the difference

Keep to the guidance to reduce infection. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!
This is the very reason the UK is worse off than any other European country. Everyone else sticks to the law/guidance but its the 'I'll do whatever I please' mentality here due to 'my rights' that have caused this disease to spread. Just stay at home, it's so easy...

[Foss62]

Pothole said:

Foss62 said:

Pothole said:

Foss62 said:

I don't generally snog random people as I walk past them, and I think walking outside carries a tiny risk - you need to inhale a fair concentration of virus particles to get past your first line of defences (nasal hairs, mucus etc.) before there is much chance of infection. However, when that tiny risk is multiplied by thousands of people all over the country and added to others (touching stiles and gates etc.) you end up with a real risk of moving unwanted variants on, so, at least in my view travel restrictions make sense at the moment. When five or ten million vulnerable people have been vaccinated and/or the virus trajectory starts heading down again I think they can be dispensed with.

Tiny risk is tiny risk. Many tiny risks are many tiny risks, not bigger ones.

ECDC has stated that no cases of transmission from surfaces have been proven yet. A recent article in The Lancet said that the risk of same had been hugelyexagerrated. Tests on which advice was based had all been carried out with far larger amounts of fomites than would normally be expected to be on any surface and carried out under lab conditions. "Stiles and gates" are surely going to be some of the least risky surfaces in terms of transmission, especially while temperatures close to zero encourage glove wearing...

I agree that current restrictions make sense. I see clear evidence on all these threads that many people are confusing guidance with regulations and don't really know what the actual restrictions are. That was NOT the OP's question, in any case. He asked a specific question which has been answered. Many times.

Your application of probability theory is incorrect. A coronavirus infection resulting from the inhalation of a single virus particle on a country walk is extremely unlikely but not impossible, and given enough chances, that unlikely event becomes likely to be observed within a given time scale.
Surface transmission potentially falls into exactly the same category and if you think about it, would be extremely difficult to prove, even though a mechanism can be shown to work in the lab.
The chances of anyone's personal visit to another area, leading them as individuals to spread a new variant is extremely remote, but if a million others are doing the same thing, the variants will increase their geographical spread.
Disease control is all about numbers and probability but people keep trying to reduce it to a personal context.

Is it not like roulette? (genuine question) Each person's visit to field x is distinct and individual - like each spin of the wheel - and, provided they do not indulge in the aforementioned snogging with an infected other, each individual risk is equally tiny. Not only that, but the overall risk is not significantly increased.?


We do not live our lives mitigating such tiny risks, do we? Clearly the medical experts were are supposed to believe are driving the current restrictions do not believe the risk of transmission in an outdoor setting has any significance or we would be completely barred from any and all interactions with other humans outside our homes and small family groups, wouldn't we?

I appreciate the genuine question and it is like roulette - the experts are working on percentages, so outdoor transmission is completely insignificant in comparison with other channels in the majority of situations where the virus is stable and endemic.
However if the authorities seriously intended to to eradicate it they would have to go for a lengthy ban on all interactions (as happened in Wuhan). They didn't and won't go down that route for all sorts of very good reasons.
The reason that outdoor transmission has become an issue is that we now have these new variants that could turn things very nasty before the vaccination programme starts to make an impact. Consequently they have pulled the stops out in terms of travel control - even if outdoor transmission is unlikely it makes sense for a month or two to take that possibility away altogether.

[Pothole]

A1VDY said:

Keep to the guidance to reduce infection. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!
This is the very reason the UK is worse off than any other European country. Everyone else sticks to the law/guidance but its the 'I'll do whatever I please' mentality here due to 'my rights' that have caused this disease to spread. Just stay at home, it's so easy...

Yawn.

[Oceanrower]

A1VDY said:

Keep to the guidance to reduce infection. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!
This is the very reason the UK is worse off than any other European country. Everyone else sticks to the law/guidance but its the 'I'll do whatever I please' mentality here due to 'my rights' that have caused this disease to spread. Just stay at home, it's so easy...

The laundry just called. Your brown shirts are ready for collection...

[Buster73]

Foss62 said:

The logic now that we seem to have faster spreading variants is that of containment. The longer the distance travelled, the higher the chance that something new will be introduced to an area. The News Reports about people driving from London to the Brecon Beacons show an extreme, but even your five miles does come with a greater risk of speeding up the spread than exercising two miles away. Think of the increased diversity of contacts (both first and second hand) if the entire country drove five miles from home in random directions and then walked two miles, as opposed to walking two miles from their front doors.

I live close by to the River Wear , during the first lockdown our regular 3 mile walk from home was absolutely mobbed and congested by local people who were desperate to get out for some “exercise “ and inevitably ended up standing talking blocking the narrow path.

About five miles away we could park up and do a four mile walk and probably see no more than half a dozen folk out walking.

I’d prefer to walk from home but it doesn’t automatically become the best option.

[TimmyMallett]

Unfortunately this country appears to have a high percentage who spend their time in dark rooms having a good wk over how their refusal to comply makes then a free man and not a number.

I see it day after day. Even now, the roads are busy outside our house this evening even moreso than Christmas.



How fking hard is it to stay in and stop spreading a virus that half of us don't show symptoms and are indirectly killing people? Selfish s.

[Buster73]

TimmyMallett said:

Unfortunately this country appears to have a high percentage who spend their time in dark rooms having a good wk over how their refusal to comply makes then a free man and not a number.

I see it day after day. Even now, the roads are busy outside our house this evening even moreso than Christmas.



How fking hard is it to stay in and stop spreading a virus that half of us don't show symptoms and are indirectly killing people? Selfish s.

Nice winter walk along the cliff tops on the NE coast today, well wrapped up and both of us wearing snoods across our faces , never got within 10 yards of anyone else whilst enjoying the winter fresh air.

Stop in ? , not a chance of me stopping in and vegetating instead of taking daily exercise.

Selfish ? , I have a responsibility to maintain my own health while taking reasonable precautions for other who come close.It’s called a balance.

Just wonder how many indirect deaths I’ll be responsible for today though ....

[Pothole]

TimmyMallett said:

Unfortunately this country appears to have a high percentage who spend their time in dark rooms having a good wk over how their refusal to comply makes then a free man and not a number.

I see it day after day. Even now, the roads are busy outside our house this evening even moreso than Christmas.



How fking hard is it to stay in and stop spreading a virus that half of us don't show symptoms and are indirectly killing people? Selfish s.

Have a word with yourself. Someone driving past your house in a closed vehicle is not spreading anything or killing anyone.

[anonymous-user]

TimmyMallett said:

Unfortunately this country appears to have a high percentage who spend their time in dark rooms having a good wk over how their refusal to comply makes then a free man and not a number.

I see it day after day. Even now, the roads are busy outside our house this evening even moreso than Christmas.



How fking hard is it to stay in and stop spreading a virus that half of us don't show symptoms and are indirectly killing people? Selfish s.

Seems like your mental health is deteriorating, I'd advise spending some time outdoors xx

[Buster73]

AJ5641 said:

TimmyMallett said:

Unfortunately this country appears to have a high percentage who spend their time in dark rooms having a good wk over how their refusal to comply makes then a free man and not a number.

I see it day after day. Even now, the roads are busy outside our house this evening even moreso than Christmas.



How fking hard is it to stay in and stop spreading a virus that half of us don't show symptoms and are indirectly killing people? Selfish s.

Seems like your mental health is deteriorating, I'd advise spending some time outdoors xx

Starting next year.

[survivalist]

TimmyMallett said:

Unfortunately this country appears to have a high percentage who spend their time in dark rooms having a good wk over how their refusal to comply makes then a free man and not a number.

I see it day after day. Even now, the roads are busy outside our house this evening even moreso than Christmas.



How fking hard is it to stay in and stop spreading a virus that half of us don't show symptoms and are indirectly killing people? Selfish s.

Going for a drive won’t impact the spread.

No dark room having a wk for me, our for a long drive and a bit of booze shopping. Happy new year

[Gareth79]

Louis Balfour said:

Gareth79 said:

Louis Balfour said:

Gareth79 said:

That was a direct quote from the law.

Is that the law where the first word on the page is "guidance"?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

No, the text I quoted is not anywhere on that page, I quoted it from the actual law.

edit: It's hardly rocket science, here's the restrictions in Tier 3: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...
And here's Tier 4: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/sche...

Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 31st December 17:12

Well clearly it is a bit tricky, because until you edited your post you'd linked to the wrong page.

Not true, the edit was to add the links. The previous version just had the first line of text.