Issued COVID FPN by a police officer
Discussion
This.
Couldn't they issue every officer with a crib sheet/flow chart of what to ask the alleged covid criminals? It would make life a lot easier & avoid clogging up the justice system more than it already is? The lack of joined up thinking is ridiculous - every force seems to have a different interpretation of the law. Surely a well written flyer from ACPO would suffice? After all, they appear to have a similar easy to understand document regarding speeding offenses.....
Couldn't they issue every officer with a crib sheet/flow chart of what to ask the alleged covid criminals? It would make life a lot easier & avoid clogging up the justice system more than it already is? The lack of joined up thinking is ridiculous - every force seems to have a different interpretation of the law. Surely a well written flyer from ACPO would suffice? After all, they appear to have a similar easy to understand document regarding speeding offenses.....
Biker 1 said:
This.
Couldn't they issue every officer with a crib sheet/flow chart of what to ask the alleged covid criminals? It would make life a lot easier & avoid clogging up the justice system more than it already is? The lack of joined up thinking is ridiculous - every force seems to have a different interpretation of the law. Surely a well written flyer from ACPO would suffice? After all, they appear to have a similar easy to understand document regarding speeding offenses.....
The initial guidance from the college of policing, cascaded to each force was wrong. Couldn't they issue every officer with a crib sheet/flow chart of what to ask the alleged covid criminals? It would make life a lot easier & avoid clogging up the justice system more than it already is? The lack of joined up thinking is ridiculous - every force seems to have a different interpretation of the law. Surely a well written flyer from ACPO would suffice? After all, they appear to have a similar easy to understand document regarding speeding offenses.....
I raised it and it took 3 months to get a reply from our legal services dept.
I recognise that there are challenges and I have great respect for the officers on the ground, not a job I could or would do. However the premise that a high failure rate is acceptable because the position is complex, the training poor and resources constrained is plainly flawed. A lawyer, accountant or doctor running the same argument when called to account to their professional body for failures wouldn’t get any traction. It’s incumbent upon the leadership to train adequately (the Corona regs are very simple). Criticality at an individual level professionalism demands that if you don’t understand something which is key to your role, you proactively take steps to address that and you certainly don’t plough on regardless executing something you don’t have an adequate understanding of, that’s professional negligence.
Biker 1 said:
This.
Couldn't they issue every officer with a crib sheet/flow chart of what to ask the alleged covid criminals? It would make life a lot easier & avoid clogging up the justice system more than it already is? The lack of joined up thinking is ridiculous - every force seems to have a different interpretation of the law. Surely a well written flyer from ACPO would suffice? After all, they appear to have a similar easy to understand document regarding speeding offenses.....
What's the speed limit ?Couldn't they issue every officer with a crib sheet/flow chart of what to ask the alleged covid criminals? It would make life a lot easier & avoid clogging up the justice system more than it already is? The lack of joined up thinking is ridiculous - every force seems to have a different interpretation of the law. Surely a well written flyer from ACPO would suffice? After all, they appear to have a similar easy to understand document regarding speeding offenses.....
Are they going faster ?
Doesn't take 102 Sections to explain that.
La Liga said:
hy wouldn’t there be? Enforcement is one part of the strategy to enable us to return to normality and limit the economic damage and of course deaths.
In terms of practical resourcing, it makes sense to have a dedicated group at any one time due to the demand that will be coming in and that the ones most likely to see enforcement are people having parties / groups. More likely for enforcement = more likely conflict so having the numbers there from the off is better than displacing other resources who are dealing with other demand.
Whoa there! With thinking like that you'll get a promotion!!In terms of practical resourcing, it makes sense to have a dedicated group at any one time due to the demand that will be coming in and that the ones most likely to see enforcement are people having parties / groups. More likely for enforcement = more likely conflict so having the numbers there from the off is better than displacing other resources who are dealing with other demand.
Only, the dedicated teams don't work nights (house parties), sometimes the team is only 2 Officers per area, and sometimes those two Officers are taken from the already over stretched response teams!
blueg33 said:
As I put in another thread. The regs are easy to read and are clear. Why don’t officers just use an hour of their own time to read them.
Ignorance of the law is no defense if you are a member of the public and should be even less of a defense for a pc
Why should anyone, Public or Private sector, use their own time to read additional information?Ignorance of the law is no defense if you are a member of the public and should be even less of a defense for a pc
We've already heard from someone in the Private Sector whining that they've had to do this.
blueg33 said:
As I put in another thread. The regs are easy to read and are clear. Why don’t officers just use an hour of their own time to read them.
Ignorance of the law is no defense if you are a member of the public and should be even less of a defense for a pc
As I said a few days ago,Ignorance of the law is no defense if you are a member of the public and should be even less of a defense for a pc
“PH'er Dibble recently posted a copy of "clarifications" that the National Police Chiefs' Council had issued to all forces (following the Derbyshire debacle?) so there is no excuse for not knowing the legislation and how it is to be enforced. Unfortunately it was on the Covid thread that got deleted and I didn't keep a copy.”
Nibbles_bits said:
Why should anyone, Public or Private sector, use their own time to read additional information?
We've already heard from someone in the Private Sector whining that they've had to do this.
If I don’t want to be so sWe've already heard from someone in the Private Sector whining that they've had to do this.
t at my job as to issue tickets to people who are plainly doing nothing wrong I spend anywhere from an hour a week to two hours a day spending time on my own personal development. If people weren’t so fixated on “clocking off time, see ya!” and “what they get paid for” they would rapidly recognise that there are vast swathes of the public around them that invest massive amounts of their own time to be “good” at their job not “acceptable, by most measures of their senior management”.I will happily accept that there are things that senior leaders in the police force could and should be doing to improve upon the situation on the ground but they are emphatically not the people going out issuing tickets and having arguments over areas of the law they know full well they do not understand fully because “don’t have time to”.
Professional pride. You see it in many officers. You see it absent in far many more.
Nibbles_bits said:
Why should anyone, Public or Private sector, use their own time to read additional information?
Oh dear, I think this one statement answers a lot of the questions as to why we are in the state we're in.You are using your own time (I hope) to post here about how corona virus affects your job. Why not use the same time a little bit more wisely, and read some additional information, which also effects your job?
NGee said:
Oh dear, I think this one statement answers a lot of the questions as to why we are in the state we're in.
You are using your own time (I hope) to post here about how corona virus affects your job. Why not use the same time a little bit more wisely, and read some additional information, which also effects your job?
Very much this. I spend my time reading and learning about things pertinent to my job because it’s a career, not a way to get away from the other half / family for a few hours a day in exchange for some money.You are using your own time (I hope) to post here about how corona virus affects your job. Why not use the same time a little bit more wisely, and read some additional information, which also effects your job?
NGee said:
Oh dear, I think this one statement answers a lot of the questions as to why we are in the state we're in.
You are using your own time (I hope) to post here about how corona virus affects your job. Why not use the same time a little bit more wisely, and read some additional information, which also effects your job?
You assume I'm using my own time You are using your own time (I hope) to post here about how corona virus affects your job. Why not use the same time a little bit more wisely, and read some additional information, which also effects your job?
(Getting ready to real them in)
Oh wow is me, I have to use my own time to learn how to do my job because I work in the greedy Private Sector.
Weren't moaning before Covid, were you?
NGee said:
Oh dear, I think this one statement answers a lot of the questions as to why we are in the state we're in.
You are using your own time (I hope) to post here about how corona virus affects your job. Why not use the same time a little bit more wisely, and read some additional information, which also effects your job?
You assume I'm using my own time You are using your own time (I hope) to post here about how corona virus affects your job. Why not use the same time a little bit more wisely, and read some additional information, which also effects your job?
(Getting ready to real them in)
Oh wow is me, I have to use my own time to learn how to do my job because I work in the greedy Private Sector.
Weren't moaning before Covid, were you?
Pegscratch said:
If I don’t want to be so st at my job as to issue tickets to people who are plainly doing nothing wrong I spend anywhere from an hour a week to two hours a day spending time on my own personal development. If people weren’t so fixated on “clocking off time, see ya!” and “what they get paid for” they would rapidly recognise that there are vast swathes of the public around them that invest massive amounts of their own time to be “good” at their job not “acceptable, by most measures of their senior management”.
I disagree, you want people to do work, you pay them. That's the fundamental nature of an employment relationship.t at my job as to issue tickets to people who are plainly doing nothing wrong I spend anywhere from an hour a week to two hours a day spending time on my own personal development. If people weren’t so fixated on “clocking off time, see ya!” and “what they get paid for” they would rapidly recognise that there are vast swathes of the public around them that invest massive amounts of their own time to be “good” at their job not “acceptable, by most measures of their senior management”.If you treat/pay people well, you may occasionally get some goodwill out of them, but expecting it is wrong.
It's the equivalent of them turning up an hour late and expecting full pay and no consequences because that extra lie in was necessary for them.
Nibbles_bits said:
Why should anyone, Public or Private sector, use their own time to read additional information?
We've already heard from someone in the Private Sector whining that they've had to do this.
I don’t know what rank you are but, if you wanted to progress your career, would you not read up on the requirements for , for example, the sergeants exam in your own time?We've already heard from someone in the Private Sector whining that they've had to do this.
You know, to learn something to make you better at your job...
Nibbles_bits said:
blueg33 said:
As I put in another thread. The regs are easy to read and are clear. Why don’t officers just use an hour of their own time to read them.
Ignorance of the law is no defense if you are a member of the public and should be even less of a defense for a pc
Why should anyone, Public or Private sector, use their own time to read additional information?Ignorance of the law is no defense if you are a member of the public and should be even less of a defense for a pc
We've already heard from someone in the Private Sector whining that they've had to do this.
Oceanrower said:
I don’t know what rank you are but, if you wanted to progress your career, would you not read up on the requirements for , for example, the sergeants exam in your own time?
You know, to learn something to make you better at your job...
No intention of progressing my career up the ranks. Once you become a Sergeant, you pretty much just managing people.You know, to learn something to make you better at your job...
And if you put yourself forward to work overtime shifts to deal with real crime (or the odd Dedicated Covid Task Force), most PC's equal an inspectors salary.
That's why we have training days
Nibbles_bits said:
Oceanrower said:
I don’t know what rank you are but, if you wanted to progress your career, would you not read up on the requirements for , for example, the sergeants exam in your own time?
You know, to learn something to make you better at your job...
No intention of progressing my career up the ranks. Once you become a Sergeant, you pretty much just managing people.You know, to learn something to make you better at your job...
And if you put yourself forward to work overtime shifts to deal with real crime (or the odd Dedicated Covid Task Force), most PC's equal an inspectors salary.
That's why we have training days
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