Issued COVID FPN by a police officer
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I genuinely don’t know where to start with this level of ignorance but I’ll give it a go...Paragraph 1
The reason you can’t find it anywhere is because it doesn’t exist. There is not only no reason not to travel to exercise but, also, there is no restriction on the distance you can travel to exercise. Getting in your car to meet someone for exercise is perfectly reasonable.
Paragraph 2
Not only is the list of exemptions non-exhaustive but exercise is specifically mentioned so no problem there.
Paragraph 3
The police in those circumstances are completely wrong and, assuming they don’t get withdrawn anyway, will never go to court.
Why do you bother posting on a legal matter when you clearly have no idea of the relevant law?
Edited by Oceanrower on Thursday 25th February 14:53
anonymous said:
[redacted]
For pity’s sake. That link you have posted IS NOT THE LEGISLATION! Do you see that little word between .gov.uk/ and national-lockdown. I know how BV72 felt now but for the eleventy gabillion and first time, GUIDANCE IS NOT LEGISLATION. Also, there is nothing in the legislation, nothing whatsoever, about 2 metre distancing.
Why don’t you go and have a read of the actual legislation. It’s written in very plain English. There’s a sticky at the top of the SP&L page. It might save you some embarrassment...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Let me point out where you went wrong...https://www.gov.uk/guidance/
Not legislation. Legislation says nothing of two metres. You cannot be arrested for not following guidance, despite what PC s
tattheirjob might try and tell you.anonymous said:
[redacted]
No, that's the guidance, look at the url, the legislation is here;https://www.legislation.gov.uk/coronavirus
Government said:
What is the difference between legislation and guidance?
To find out exactly what the rules are during the coronavirus pandemic, you need to look at both legislation and government guidance. Legislation sets out legal obligations and restrictions that are enforceable by law. If you do not abide by the legislation you are breaking the law. Guidance and advice is likely to be based on legislation (in which case it will be legally binding) and it might offer the best or most appropriate way to adhere to the law.
The law is what you must do; the guidance might be a mixture of what you must do and what you should do.
To find out exactly what the rules are during the coronavirus pandemic, you need to look at both legislation and government guidance. Legislation sets out legal obligations and restrictions that are enforceable by law. If you do not abide by the legislation you are breaking the law. Guidance and advice is likely to be based on legislation (in which case it will be legally binding) and it might offer the best or most appropriate way to adhere to the law.
The law is what you must do; the guidance might be a mixture of what you must do and what you should do.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The only thing Devon and Cornwall have been very active in is serving unlawful FPNs. They rightfully have one of the worst reputations of any police force in the nation, in close running with Derbyshire and West Mids. Please read up on the difference between guidance and legislation. Based on the information given in that article, the surfers' journey to Cornwall was completely lawful. I'm not sure about their overnight stay in the campervan however there could be an argument to say that the campervan counts as their dwelling. People can go where the want for exercise and no limits on distance, travel or even social distancing have been introduced in law.The only thing I'm not sure on with the above is whether or not two people from separate households can travel somewhere for exercise in the same car. The legislation mentions 'public outdoor' space with regards to exercising with members of other households.
You've quoted the right stuff but I just have to take exception with this.
To find out exactly what the rules are during the coronavirus pandemic, you need to look at both legislation and government guidance.
No, just no. To find out exactly what the rules are during the coronavirus pandemic, the only place that lists THE RULES is THE LEGISLATION.
The guidance is something for Karens and Morons to phone police about every five minutes because they hate their neighbours for not being miserable, self-centred little fktards like them.
To find out exactly what the rules are during the coronavirus pandemic, you need to look at both legislation and government guidance.
No, just no. To find out exactly what the rules are during the coronavirus pandemic, the only place that lists THE RULES is THE LEGISLATION.
The guidance is something for Karens and Morons to phone police about every five minutes because they hate their neighbours for not being miserable, self-centred little f
ktards like them.Gooly said:
The only thing I'm not sure on with the above is whether or not two people from separate households can travel somewhere for exercise in the same car. The legislation mentions 'public outdoor' space with regards to exercising with members of other households.
The legislation doesn't say that two people from separate households cannot be in the same car. As long as the purpose for their travel is lawful, their travel is inherently lawful of course accepting the necessary laws that must be obeyed whilst doing that travelling.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
With respect your job is very narrow and specialised.
It's also disrespectful to say 'make it up' when in reality it's best intention and a mistake.
If it is something that it is reasonable to expect a professional in their field to either know, or be aware of their knowledge limitations, then it isn't disrespectful. I call it incompetence. It's also disrespectful to say 'make it up' when in reality it's best intention and a mistake.
Would it be ok for a surgeon to make a mistake because of a lack of knowledge, when that lack of knowledge should have been understood and mitigated? "It's ok Mrs Smith, he had the best of intentions and it was a genuine mistake when the surgeon botched your heart surgery he'd heard about in passing but hadn't really read up on or been trained in."
Would it be ok for a pilot to make their best guess because they couldn't remember what sequence to perform a particular operation in and didn't bother to refer to a written protocol? Sorry the plane crashed everyone, but it's ok, the pilot had the best intentions.
It's negligence and incompetence. You don't get a bye just because "things are a bit pressured", "there's so much new legislation". I don't. The doctor doesn't. The pilot doesn't.
Pegscratch said:
The legislation doesn't say that two people from separate households cannot be in the same car. As long as the purpose for their travel is lawful, their travel is inherently lawful of course accepting the necessary laws that must be obeyed whilst doing that travelling.
Are you saying that 2 people from different households can travel to exercise together in the same car (Assuming we idgnore bubble rules etc.) Because that seems to fall foul of the gathering definition and there is no exception there for reasonable excuse or travelling to exercise only the actual exercise in an outdoor space. Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 25th February 16:03
Graveworm said:
Pegscratch said:
The legislation doesn't say that two people from separate households cannot be in the same car. As long as the purpose for their travel is lawful, their travel is inherently lawful of course accepting the necessary laws that must be obeyed whilst doing that travelling.
Are you saying that 2 people from different households can travel to exercise together in the same car (Assuming we idgnore bubble rules etc.) Because that seems to fall foul of the gathering definition and there is no exception there for reasonable excuse or travelling to exercise only the actual exercise in an outdoor space. Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 25th February 16:03
Hugo Stiglitz said:
When officers can't remember the last time that they ate food in a 10+ shift or used the toilet with colleagues off self isolating there's always chance to keep back and get up to date isn't there.
What, like the crews of 3 marked cars I saw yesterday standing around together drinking takeaway coffees, in a car park down the road from the HQ in Bridgend?Edit: And surely, if they are not quite sure if a particular situation is against the law, they should use the "engage, explain, encourage" bit and give the benefit of the doubt, rather than jumping straight to FPNs?
Edited by Plymo on Thursday 25th February 16:24
Lonely said:
Graveworm said:
Pegscratch said:
The legislation doesn't say that two people from separate households cannot be in the same car. As long as the purpose for their travel is lawful, their travel is inherently lawful of course accepting the necessary laws that must be obeyed whilst doing that travelling.
Are you saying that 2 people from different households can travel to exercise together in the same car (Assuming we idgnore bubble rules etc.) Because that seems to fall foul of the gathering definition and there is no exception there for reasonable excuse or travelling to exercise only the actual exercise in an outdoor space. Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 25th February 16:03
Biker 1 said:
I drove a workmate to get a van serviced earlier. I guess it was legal, as it would be unreasonable to expect him to walk there some 6 miles. It was in working hours, but I took him in my private car.....
If it is reasonable necessary for a work purpose then it's fine, where the "Gathering" happens doesn't matter in that case. Graveworm said:
Lonely said:
Graveworm said:
Pegscratch said:
The legislation doesn't say that two people from separate households cannot be in the same car. As long as the purpose for their travel is lawful, their travel is inherently lawful of course accepting the necessary laws that must be obeyed whilst doing that travelling.
Are you saying that 2 people from different households can travel to exercise together in the same car (Assuming we idgnore bubble rules etc.) Because that seems to fall foul of the gathering definition and there is no exception there for reasonable excuse or travelling to exercise only the actual exercise in an outdoor space. Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 25th February 16:03
Go here - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay... - in the travel section click guidance on car sharing, then click on the exempt reasons and you'll find exercising.
The thing I take from this is the OP said the place was crawling with police and he was stopped by a dedicated Covid task force.
How the hell can you excuse the police from not knowing the basic legislation when that legislation is exactly what they are enforcing.
To use an anology from further up the thread that’s like a task force being unleashed to check on whether vehicles are roadworthy without even bothering to take 2 minutes to read up on tyre tread depths.
Sloppy sloppy policing.
Lonely said:
Graveworm said:
Lonely said:
Graveworm said:
Pegscratch said:
The legislation doesn't say that two people from separate households cannot be in the same car. As long as the purpose for their travel is lawful, their travel is inherently lawful of course accepting the necessary laws that must be obeyed whilst doing that travelling.
Are you saying that 2 people from different households can travel to exercise together in the same car (Assuming we idgnore bubble rules etc.) Because that seems to fall foul of the gathering definition and there is no exception there for reasonable excuse or travelling to exercise only the actual exercise in an outdoor space. Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 25th February 16:03
Go here - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay... - in the travel section click guidance on car sharing, then click on the exempt reasons and you'll find exercising.
"You can exercise in a public outdoor place" .. or, when on your own, with 1 person from another household."
That is pretty much what the law says.
Unlike work, study, healthcare etc where there is no restriction on where it can be so in a car is fine.
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