Legally voiding a new AST?
Discussion
One bed flat which is not local and I use an agent to source tenants for that one
Finds single middle aged guy, not working currently as moving to the area having just lost job but will pay six months upfront - all agreed with a six month AST and he has just moved in.
I receive copy contract and he has an unusual name and first hit on search is from nearby and a guy sentenced to twelve years for rape on two very young girls. Using the picture in news article agent confirms this is the same person and date wise it is clear he has just been released. References they tell me now were false.
He is living in a block with forty flats of varying sizes with families all around, no change of name and local to original offence
Agent says I'm stuck with him but .....??
Finds single middle aged guy, not working currently as moving to the area having just lost job but will pay six months upfront - all agreed with a six month AST and he has just moved in.
I receive copy contract and he has an unusual name and first hit on search is from nearby and a guy sentenced to twelve years for rape on two very young girls. Using the picture in news article agent confirms this is the same person and date wise it is clear he has just been released. References they tell me now were false.
He is living in a block with forty flats of varying sizes with families all around, no change of name and local to original offence
Agent says I'm stuck with him but .....??
Unfortunately due to COVID regulations you are looking at 6 months notice to evict him whether you issue a section 21 or section 8 (ground 17). Normally section 8 grounds 1-7 require 2 months notice and 8-17 2 weeks (still need to take them to court if they don't leave, but COVID regulations means that the Landlord now has to bend over and lube up.
Did you check the references or just accept them?
Sign up to the NRLA.
Did you check the references or just accept them?
Sign up to the NRLA.
smashie said:
Unfortunately due to COVID regulations you are looking at 6 months notice to evict him whether you issue a section 21 or section 8 (ground 17). Normally section 8 grounds 1-7 require 2 months notice and 8-17 2 weeks (still need to take them to court if they don't leave, but COVID regulations means that the Landlord now has to bend over and lube up.
Did you check the references or just accept them?
Sign up to the NRLA.
I was not part of the referencing process the agent undertook that side and recommended him - as you might imagine much of the discussion centered on him not working.Did you check the references or just accept them?
Sign up to the NRLA.
Since he was putting down £4375 (inc the TDS) the last thing I would have considered was he had just been inside.
You have your rent so for now that isn't the issue. Not matter how unsavoury you may find your new tenant you should have engaged with your agent and made sure you were aware of who they were putting forward, you didn't so will have to take it as a life lesson.
I suspect all you can realistically do is to not renew after the six months are up and pray he doesn't dig his heals in.
I suspect all you can realistically do is to not renew after the six months are up and pray he doesn't dig his heals in.
MercScot said:
You have your rent so for now that isn't the issue. Not matter how unsavoury you may find your new tenant you should have engaged with your agent and made sure you were aware of who they were putting forward, you didn't so will have to take it as a life lesson.
I suspect all you can realistically do is to not renew after the six months are up and pray he doesn't dig his heals in.
I have never been given the name of a tenant before any AST is finalised and if he is Paul Gadd or John Smith would have no bearing on the decision to go ahead - to that end I'm no sure I see it as a life lesson.I suspect all you can realistically do is to not renew after the six months are up and pray he doesn't dig his heals in.
I have no issue with him or his past but I have inadvertently introduced a risk for other residents which I would rather have avoided - rent never was or is the issue.
My solution would be to serve notice to leave now.
With COVID this is 6 months - but you have been paid for that period anyway.
If he asks why you can either say that your references are false so I am ending it or say that you have petit with your patent and will be moving back in.
The courts are not even accepting cases so getting him out any quicker is not gong to happen.
With COVID this is 6 months - but you have been paid for that period anyway.
If he asks why you can either say that your references are false so I am ending it or say that you have petit with your patent and will be moving back in.
The courts are not even accepting cases so getting him out any quicker is not gong to happen.
Sheepshanks said:
Seriously? You think 'convicted criminal' is a protected characteristic?
where rehabilitation of offenders act applies, yes clearly.IN this case did the agent even ask? DBS checks certainly arent standard yet and CRA checks don't show it either.
If the agent (who legally is basically you) didnt specifically ask about unspent convictions, then you have no right to know legally and also he has legally done nothing wrong by not telling you. Morally its an additional risk.
He hasnt specifically lied by saying he lost his job and moving to the area. He probably did lose his job on conviction!
ground 17 could be used but it very specifically depends on the exact wording.
Why weren't the references checked?
On the one hand, it's a particularly repugnant crime, but on the other presumably he has served the time (and not a small amount of it) that the justice system demanded. Should he be permanently made homeless? He has to live somewhere.
I'm inclined to think that you've got the money you asked for, and to simply not renew the tenancy if you feel strongly about it.
On the one hand, it's a particularly repugnant crime, but on the other presumably he has served the time (and not a small amount of it) that the justice system demanded. Should he be permanently made homeless? He has to live somewhere.
I'm inclined to think that you've got the money you asked for, and to simply not renew the tenancy if you feel strongly about it.
If he is on the Sex Offenders register surely he will have needed to have obtained Police / probation service approval for where he is living I.e your flat. However, I am unclear whether you are entitled to see that proof or in the alternative whether there it can be checked by asking the Police.
It cropped up when I was considering a potential tenant, he was open about needing approval, which was not granted. So he & the problem went away.
It cropped up when I was considering a potential tenant, he was open about needing approval, which was not granted. So he & the problem went away.
OP curious as to this as I run a letting agency.
Some agencies are better and more diligent then others, some will give the landlord better advice then others.
first off from my pov running my firm - if someone is not in full time work we dont recommend them to the landlord even if they can pay 6mth in advance as you have the issue of how do they pay after 6 mths.
we generally only issue 12 mths tenancies - the demand is very strong.
We dont generally let to tenants unless they are in a stable employment - we dont let to hospitality/taxi or transient type of work -
Some tenants if starting new work we may ask that they have a guarantor. A gtor must be in FT work and earning 3 x the rent. they may also be asked to pay 12 mths in advance.
Paying rent in advance is good but you have to think why are they doing that? - which will mean there are other issues. What are those issues?
We do social media check as well as the normal CCj stuff.
we look at 3 mths worth of bank statements to cross check the income/expenditure and end balances.
But one of best is to actually say would I want that person in my own property - if we woulndt then we dont put them into our landlords properties.
None of my staff work on commission - I want them to be able to turn away tenants if they think there is something not right and not lose financially as this is best for the landlord in getting the best tenants.
I would be curious as to the checks and references they did take up - ask for full details and copies.
what did they take up?
ie;
Passport
driving licence and proof if address is vital. how are these fake in what way? how were they checked?
How did the agents think he would pay the rent after 6 mths how did you think he would pay? was this discussed with you?
Criminal convictions wont show on normal reference checks an agency will do.
I would guess the agency were contacted by social services who told them they have a person who needs housing and the council will pay the rent in advance and will help look after the person ie halfway house type. Were the agents aware of this? did they tell you?
The agent are under a duty to disclose what they know about the tenant - if you are also a bit caviler about what happens after 6 mths and dont ask and the agents dont ask then its sloppy and increases your risk especially with the 6mths notice and lack of courts working at present.
Agents must belong to a redress scheme. Ask for their complaints procedure.
If you think they should have picked up on the fake references (hence me asking in what way are they fake) then you could make a claim against them. BUT at present you havnt suffered a loss.
Did you take out or were offered any rent/legal protection insurance? if not offered why not?
So wait and see what happens. He may be an ideal tenant. Who knows.
The whole point in using an agency is to reduce the lottery chance by taking up good references, cross checking info but also the agents experience and procedures to weed out potential issues before the tenancy starts.
Is the tenancy in your name personally or a company you have set up?
Happy to try and help give you the options available.
Some agencies are better and more diligent then others, some will give the landlord better advice then others.
first off from my pov running my firm - if someone is not in full time work we dont recommend them to the landlord even if they can pay 6mth in advance as you have the issue of how do they pay after 6 mths.
we generally only issue 12 mths tenancies - the demand is very strong.
We dont generally let to tenants unless they are in a stable employment - we dont let to hospitality/taxi or transient type of work -
Some tenants if starting new work we may ask that they have a guarantor. A gtor must be in FT work and earning 3 x the rent. they may also be asked to pay 12 mths in advance.
Paying rent in advance is good but you have to think why are they doing that? - which will mean there are other issues. What are those issues?
We do social media check as well as the normal CCj stuff.
we look at 3 mths worth of bank statements to cross check the income/expenditure and end balances.
But one of best is to actually say would I want that person in my own property - if we woulndt then we dont put them into our landlords properties.
None of my staff work on commission - I want them to be able to turn away tenants if they think there is something not right and not lose financially as this is best for the landlord in getting the best tenants.
I would be curious as to the checks and references they did take up - ask for full details and copies.
what did they take up?
ie;
Passport
driving licence and proof if address is vital. how are these fake in what way? how were they checked?
How did the agents think he would pay the rent after 6 mths how did you think he would pay? was this discussed with you?
Criminal convictions wont show on normal reference checks an agency will do.
I would guess the agency were contacted by social services who told them they have a person who needs housing and the council will pay the rent in advance and will help look after the person ie halfway house type. Were the agents aware of this? did they tell you?
The agent are under a duty to disclose what they know about the tenant - if you are also a bit caviler about what happens after 6 mths and dont ask and the agents dont ask then its sloppy and increases your risk especially with the 6mths notice and lack of courts working at present.
Agents must belong to a redress scheme. Ask for their complaints procedure.
If you think they should have picked up on the fake references (hence me asking in what way are they fake) then you could make a claim against them. BUT at present you havnt suffered a loss.
Did you take out or were offered any rent/legal protection insurance? if not offered why not?
So wait and see what happens. He may be an ideal tenant. Who knows.
The whole point in using an agency is to reduce the lottery chance by taking up good references, cross checking info but also the agents experience and procedures to weed out potential issues before the tenancy starts.
Is the tenancy in your name personally or a company you have set up?
Happy to try and help give you the options available.
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