Changes to Covid Legislation during the "return to normality
Discussion
Firstly, a plea. PLEASE don't turn this thread into a bunfight about who is the most worthy and who has the best opinion about Covid restrictions. My goal is to gain a better understanding of what changes there will be to the legal framework as we progress through steps 1 to 4 of the lockdown easing - that's all. I'm not after scoring Internet points or trying to force my opinion on anyone.
All dates mentioned are my recollection of the initial dates mentioned, and are subject to change as per the initial announcement
First question. I think I read somewhere that the "legal stay at home order" will end on 29th March - does this mean that there will be a change to legislation on that date, or is it just smoke and mirrors?
Second question. It is my understanding that the wearing of masks in supermarkets and on public transport (and possibly other places) is a legal requirement. Whilst the date for lifting that requirement hasn't been specifically mentioned, it does say it will be reviewed between steps 3 and 4. Does this means that a change to legislation is required before the train companies / supermarkets can remove the requirement.
Third question (which probably should have been the first question). I seem to recall that all of the Covid legislation was put in with an expiry date. Is this correct? If so, when is the date and how does that tie in with the 4 steps.
TIA to anyone who can provide factual and / or sensible answers to any of the above.
All dates mentioned are my recollection of the initial dates mentioned, and are subject to change as per the initial announcement
First question. I think I read somewhere that the "legal stay at home order" will end on 29th March - does this mean that there will be a change to legislation on that date, or is it just smoke and mirrors?
Second question. It is my understanding that the wearing of masks in supermarkets and on public transport (and possibly other places) is a legal requirement. Whilst the date for lifting that requirement hasn't been specifically mentioned, it does say it will be reviewed between steps 3 and 4. Does this means that a change to legislation is required before the train companies / supermarkets can remove the requirement.
Third question (which probably should have been the first question). I seem to recall that all of the Covid legislation was put in with an expiry date. Is this correct? If so, when is the date and how does that tie in with the 4 steps.
TIA to anyone who can provide factual and / or sensible answers to any of the above.
The chances of anyone being able to provide factual and / or sensible answers to your questions are absolutely zero.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I just posted this in another Covid topic but it seems appropriate here too.....
“I have not read all posts so apologies if repeating an already posted comment.
Boris has put together an exit plan. Is there an inclusion in this plan of undoing/removing the guidance/rules and importantly, Laws that have been put in place?
I can understand the setting up of just about most of these but what mechanisms are there to end them as they become obsolete.
The Laws is a key one as the rest can simply be lifted without fuss apart from arguments about the speed of removal and different areas of the UK with their own timetables for exit.”
“I have not read all posts so apologies if repeating an already posted comment.
Boris has put together an exit plan. Is there an inclusion in this plan of undoing/removing the guidance/rules and importantly, Laws that have been put in place?
I can understand the setting up of just about most of these but what mechanisms are there to end them as they become obsolete.
The Laws is a key one as the rest can simply be lifted without fuss apart from arguments about the speed of removal and different areas of the UK with their own timetables for exit.”
NGee said:
The chances of anyone being able to provide factual and / or sensible answers to your questions are absolutely zero.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'd like to counter your theory and state the tier restrictions are legally bound to end on 31st march 2021. There is of course nothing to prevent any changes/additions/revocations being made at any time before then.Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/regu...
Wearing of face coverings came into force on 24th July 2020 and are scheduled in legislation for 12 months. Only an educated opinion but nobody is likely to remove their own advice/guidance until legislation has been amended/withdrawn.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regul...
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regul...
Lonely said:
NGee said:
The chances of anyone being able to provide factual and / or sensible answers to your questions are absolutely zero.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'd like to counter your theory and state the tier restrictions are legally bound to end on 31st march 2021. There is of course nothing to prevent any changes/additions/revocations being made at any time before then.Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Wearing of face coverings came into force on 24th July 2020 and are scheduled in legislation for 12 months. Only an educated opinion but nobody is likely to remove their own advice/guidance until legislation has been amended/withdrawn.
NGee said:
The chances of anyone being able to provide factual and / or sensible answers to your questions are absolutely zero.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
BJ and his mates said they’d open schools on 8th March and that’s happening.Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
No other dates have so far moved.
The 15th Feb vaccination target was hit too.
Feels like you’re being unduly harsh.
Chris32345 said:
What country are you in
Because as usual Scotland and Wales have to change the rules from the UK ever so slightly to make they leader's feel better
And if you not in the UK it will be even.more different
As far as I know the announcement that I've referred to in my post was made by BJ and refers to England.Because as usual Scotland and Wales have to change the rules from the UK ever so slightly to make they leader's feel better
And if you not in the UK it will be even.more different
Scotland and Wales are a relatively small % of the UK population, so statistically I'm not likely to be asking about them.
omniflow said:
First question. I think I read somewhere that the "legal stay at home order" will end on 29th March - does this mean that there will be a change to legislation on that date, or is it just smoke and mirrors?
yes as it is currently illegal to leave your house without a reasonable excuse, so this would need to change.I would go further and say, if only for clarity, there should be a change for tomorrow. From tomorrow, the government says "The Stay at Home requirement will remain, but people can leave home for recreation outdoors such as a coffee or picnic with their household or support bubble, or with one person outside their household"
While this could be accommodated by simply excepting it as a "reasonable excuse", this isn't how changes in law should be done especially as people have been fined for doing exactly that using the current drafting.
NGee said:
Lonely said:
NGee said:
The chances of anyone being able to provide factual and / or sensible answers to your questions are absolutely zero.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'd like to counter your theory and state the tier restrictions are legally bound to end on 31st march 2021. There is of course nothing to prevent any changes/additions/revocations being made at any time before then.Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Wearing of face coverings came into force on 24th July 2020 and are scheduled in legislation for 12 months. Only an educated opinion but nobody is likely to remove their own advice/guidance until legislation has been amended/withdrawn.
redjohn said:
yes as it is currently illegal to leave your house without a reasonable excuse, so this would need to change.
I would go further and say, if only for clarity, there should be a change for tomorrow. From tomorrow, the government says "The Stay at Home requirement will remain, but people can leave home for recreation outdoors such as a coffee or picnic with their household or support bubble, or with one person outside their household"
Or such as hitting the Berkshire country lanes on any GS1200 they happen to have in their garage. But that's just me.I would go further and say, if only for clarity, there should be a change for tomorrow. From tomorrow, the government says "The Stay at Home requirement will remain, but people can leave home for recreation outdoors such as a coffee or picnic with their household or support bubble, or with one person outside their household"
Lonely said:
NGee said:
Lonely said:
NGee said:
The chances of anyone being able to provide factual and / or sensible answers to your questions are absolutely zero.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'd like to counter your theory and state the tier restrictions are legally bound to end on 31st march 2021. There is of course nothing to prevent any changes/additions/revocations being made at any time before then.Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Wearing of face coverings came into force on 24th July 2020 and are scheduled in legislation for 12 months. Only an educated opinion but nobody is likely to remove their own advice/guidance until legislation has been amended/withdrawn.
You said that restrictions were legally bound to end on 31st March, and then added that there was nothing to prevent any changes/additions/revocations being made at any time before then. That is EXACTLY what I said!!
Also what I said was that there was zero chance of anyone being able to answer the OPs question because no one could see into the future. So unless you've invented a time machine, I stand by my statement.
Anyway, thanks again for agreeing with me. I never thought it would be possible to have an argument between two people who are both saying exactly the same thing. It's sort of like there's an echo in here. It's sort of like there's an echo in here.
NGee said:
Lonely said:
NGee said:
Lonely said:
NGee said:
The chances of anyone being able to provide factual and / or sensible answers to your questions are absolutely zero.
Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'd like to counter your theory and state the tier restrictions are legally bound to end on 31st march 2021. There is of course nothing to prevent any changes/additions/revocations being made at any time before then.Legislation and guidance dates change on an almost hourly basis at the whim of BJ and his mates. There is no logic to any of it and none of us can see into the future, so anything could happen.
I do understand why you would be interested in the info you have asked for but unfortunately anyone who thinks they can answer your questions are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Wearing of face coverings came into force on 24th July 2020 and are scheduled in legislation for 12 months. Only an educated opinion but nobody is likely to remove their own advice/guidance until legislation has been amended/withdrawn.
You said that restrictions were legally bound to end on 31st March, and then added that there was nothing to prevent any changes/additions/revocations being made at any time before then. That is EXACTLY what I said!!
Also what I said was that there was zero chance of anyone being able to answer the OPs question because no one could see into the future. So unless you've invented a time machine, I stand by my statement.
Anyway, thanks again for agreeing with me. I never thought it would be possible to have an argument between two people who are both saying exactly the same thing. It's sort of like there's an echo in here. It's sort of like there's an echo in here.
Lonely said:
Can you explain why the dates aren't facts?
Because they're in the future so (by your own admission) they can be changed before the date of the actual event.You can't have a fact in the future because, unless you have a time machine, you don't know what will happen between now an then.
You simply cannot predict facts, it's just impossible, even if you name is Nostradamus.
NGee said:
Lonely said:
Can you explain why the dates aren't facts?
Because they're in the future so (by your own admission) they can be changed before the date of the actual event.You can't have a fact in the future because, unless you have a time machine, you don't know what will happen between now an then.
You simply cannot predict facts, it's just impossible, even if you name is Nostradamus.
Why can facts not be in the future? My bin is due to be collected and emptied on Tuesday. That is a fact. The sun will rise in the east tomorrow. That is a fact.
Lonely said:
The date is set in legislation - that is a simple fact that anyone can recognise. The legislation as it stands will cease to have any legality on the date stated. I am not predicting any facts.
Why can facts not be in the future? My bin is due to be collected and emptied on Tuesday. That is a fact. The sun will rise in the east tomorrow. That is a fact.
OK I'll let off with the sunrise, but as for your bin, it might be DUE to be collected on Tue but there is no guarantee it WILL be collected.Why can facts not be in the future? My bin is due to be collected and emptied on Tuesday. That is a fact. The sun will rise in the east tomorrow. That is a fact.
Bit like covid regs, they might be DUE to be cancelled on a certain date but (as you admitted) no guarantee they WILL be cancelled on that date.
Which is exactly what I said in my first post in this thread.
I really don't understand what you are arguing over when we are both saying the same thing!
NGee said:
Lonely said:
The date is set in legislation - that is a simple fact that anyone can recognise. The legislation as it stands will cease to have any legality on the date stated. I am not predicting any facts.
Why can facts not be in the future? My bin is due to be collected and emptied on Tuesday. That is a fact. The sun will rise in the east tomorrow. That is a fact.
OK I'll let off with the sunrise, but as for your bin, it might be DUE to be collected on Tue but there is no guarantee it WILL be collected.Why can facts not be in the future? My bin is due to be collected and emptied on Tuesday. That is a fact. The sun will rise in the east tomorrow. That is a fact.
Bit like covid regs, they might be DUE to be cancelled on a certain date but (as you admitted) no guarantee they WILL be cancelled on that date.
Which is exactly what I said in my first post in this thread.
I really don't understand what you are arguing over when we are both saying the same thing!
Unfortunately we are not saying the same thing. Why does there have to be guarantees to make facts? The statement that my bin is due to be collected on Tuesday is a fact. It matters not one bit whether it gets collected or not. Likewise I am not saying the legislation will end on a set date but it is a fact that the expiry date is written in the legislation. If the government make no changes as required then the legislation will expire......fact.
Lonely said:
If the government make no changes as required then the legislation will expire......fact.
'IF' and this is my point, no one knows, no one can see into the future, so no one knows when the regulations will end.This is why the OPs question can never be answered factually.
If you want the last word - feel free. I'm getting bored trying to explain how you are saying the same as me!
Anyway, at least we managed to have an argument/debate without rudeness and insults, a pleasant change on PH.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and go our separate ways.
NGee said:
Lonely said:
If the government make no changes as required then the legislation will expire......fact.
'IF' and this is my point, no one knows, no one can see into the future, so no one knows when the regulations will end.This is why the OPs question can never be answered factually.
If you want the last word - feel free. I'm getting bored trying to explain how you are saying the same as me!
Anyway, at least we managed to have an argument/debate without rudeness and insults, a pleasant change on PH.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and go our separate ways.
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