Twitter cyclists v Twitter driver video - who's right?

[popeyewhite]

The cyclist is at fault 100%. I am a (part time) cyclist and biker.

[321boost]

BlackWidow13 said:

321boost said:

BlackWidow13 said:

321boost said:

Foss62 said:

321boost said:

Cant believe some people are blaming the driver I guess you cant fix dumbness

It seems that you can’t. Considering that any accident between the car and the bike would have entailed the car hitting the bike virtually in the middle of it’s lane - what do you imagine would have been the legal or insurance outcomes here?
It was a really daft place to go for an overtake in the first place. Why not wait a few seconds and allow more clearance? The cyclist made an error but that error was caused by reacting to an accident on the other side of the road. The swerve could just as easily have been round a pothole or an animal running out for example.

lol

Well there’s 321boost’s idiot credentials verified...

The cyclist moved in an unpredictable way, and ought to have been able to hear a car hammering down the road behind him, but (a) age old rule is that if you hit something from behind it’s your fault (because you have eyes in the front of your head and they don’t have eyes in the back of theirs); (b) the car driver’s approach speed to a pinch point with another road user in front of him was way too fast, resulting in him having insufficient time to respond to a sudden change of circumstances.

If the cyclist could hear the car then why behave like an idiot. Goes to show they were not being careful.

(a) Not really if someone comes in front of you without looking at their mirrors or proper observation then it is their fault.
(b) The driver did react to sudden change of circumstances correctly, he saved the cyclist's life here. Kudos to the driver.

(a) wrong.
(b) wrong.

Better luck next time.

[321boost]

monthou said:

Driver101 said:

The driving is poor.

Okay.
How's the cycling?

Terrible

[InitialDave]

No real winners there, cyclist is a suicidal idiot, car driver wasn't leaving much on the table in terms of allowing for "what ifs".

[Foss62]

InitialDave said:

No real winners there, cyclist is a suicidal idiot, car driver wasn't leaving much on the table in terms of allowing for "what ifs".

No ‘winners’ and only one accident (that I could see). The cyclist might be a suicidal idiot but the video doesn’t prove that. He has reacted unpredictably due to the shock of seeing the accident on the other side of the road - it happens to the best of us. The driver reacted rapidly but seemingly missed the accident on the other side and chose a poor overtaking location and approach speed.

[monthou]

PH User said:

Not good.

No kidding.

[Neil_Sc]

100% drivers fault.

A few random thoughts, a constriction in the road which prevents safe overtake of the cyclist, so I would have slowed immediately.

Cyclist / horse riders / pedestrians are unprecitable which should have a responsible motorist slowing immediately, the highway code has clear guidance specifically about giving adequate room when overtaking cyclists because they may have to make sudden movements exactly like this.

It was not possible to give adequate space to the cyclist, so an overtake should not have been attempted in the first place.

I do feel the cyclist should have shown better observation and care for themselves, but this is precisely why you give a cyclist space, so that such movements do not matter.

As a motorist the onus is on me to look after as best I can, other more vulnerable road users, this driver demonstrated poor observation and poor driving ability.

[PH User]

InitialDave said:

No real winners there, cyclist is a suicidal idiot, car driver wasn't leaving much on the table in terms of allowing for "what ifs".

Yep.

[monthou]

Neil_Sc said:

100% drivers fault.
Cyclist / horse riders / pedestrians are unprecitable

Horses are definitely unpredictable.
Children are unpredictable. Children on bicycles more so.
Teenagers on mountain bikes can definitely do daft things.
Adult cyclists?
If I see someone on a road bike lycrad up in all the gear spinning away I generally assume I'm looking at a thinking experienced adult road user. As much as a typical car driver, more than a moped rider.
If you ascribe no fault to a cyclist who swerves across a lane without looking then I genuinely hope you don't cycle.

[Foss62]

Neil_Sc said:

100% drivers fault.

A few random thoughts, a constriction in the road which prevents safe overtake of the cyclist, so I would have slowed immediately.

Cyclist / horse riders / pedestrians are unprecitable which should have a responsible motorist slowing immediately, the highway code has clear guidance specifically about giving adequate room when overtaking cyclists because they may have to make sudden movements exactly like this.

It was not possible to give adequate space to the cyclist, so an overtake should not have been attempted in the first place.

I do feel the cyclist should have shown better observation and care for themselves, but this is precisely why you give a cyclist space, so that such movements do not matter.

As a motorist the onus is on me to look after as best I can, other more vulnerable road users, this driver demonstrated poor observation and poor driving ability.

Exactly. Anyone watching videos from people like Reg Local can see that the top drivers don’t get themselves into situations like this. The rest of us aren’t quite as good but it’s amazing how many people would seemingly see themselves in the driver’s position and be convinced they had done nothing wrong.

[monthou]

Foss62 said:

Exactly. Anyone watching videos from people like Reg Local can see that the top drivers don’t get themselves into situations like this. The rest of us aren’t quite as good but it’s amazing how many people would seemingly see themselves in the driver’s position and be convinced they had done nothing wrong.

I'm putting myself in the cyclists position. I'd feel lucky to get away with what he did.
If I braked and swerved across the road every day I'd be lucky to last the week.

[Foss62]

monthou said:

Foss62 said:

Exactly. Anyone watching videos from people like Reg Local can see that the top drivers don’t get themselves into situations like this. The rest of us aren’t quite as good but it’s amazing how many people would seemingly see themselves in the driver’s position and be convinced they had done nothing wrong.

I'm putting myself in the cyclists position. I'd feel lucky to get away with what he did.
If I braked and swerved across the road every day I'd be lucky to last the week.

I imagine he knows that, and he probably doesn’t do that every day or see accidents on the other side of the road every day. I’ve done some pretty stupid things on bikes, motorcycles, cars, vans, tractors etc. etc. over the last 50 or so years of using the roads, and seen many more but if I were the driver there I’m not sure I would have posted that video.

[monthou]

Foss62 said:

I imagine he knows that, and he probably doesn’t do that every day or see accidents on the other side of the road every day. I’ve done some pretty stupid things on bikes, motorcycles, cars, vans, tractors etc. etc. over the last 50 or so years of using the roads, and seen many more but if I were the driver there I’m not sure I would have posted that video.

Sorry, I don't see how you can write the above and also write 'Exactly' under '100% driver's fault.'

[Foss62]

monthou said:

Foss62 said:

I imagine he knows that, and he probably doesn’t do that every day or see accidents on the other side of the road every day. I’ve done some pretty stupid things on bikes, motorcycles, cars, vans, tractors etc. etc. over the last 50 or so years of using the roads, and seen many more but if I were the driver there I’m not sure I would have posted that video.

Sorry, I don't see how you can write the above and also write 'Exactly' under '100% driver's fault.'

The ‘exactly’ was aimed at the last sentence, but ‘fault’ is a strange concept here anyway. If you look at the video again you can see that both road users took evasive action and no collision occurred. The reason I would judge the driver more harshly is that the rider reacted to the accident - I doubt if he is normally that unpredictable. Again, from the video you can see that the cyclist never goes beyond the centre of the lane. The driver would certainly have been judged at fault by the authorities if he had hit the bike based on that video evidence. He could have been in total control of that situation but wasn’t.
Just to think from another perspective, what do you think would have been made of that overtake by a ROADAR examiner or even on an L test?

[oyster]

Neil_Sc said:

As a motorist the onus is on me to look after as best I can, other more vulnerable road users, this driver demonstrated poor observation and poor driving ability.

Thankfully this is how both the law and insurance sees it.

It's also why cyclists need to have the same outlook towards more vulnerable road users than themselves (i.e. pedestrians).



Of course this won't be agreeable to the self-entitled snowflakes that maraud as internet hard men on PH.

[PH User]

Foss62 said:

monthou said:

Foss62 said:

I imagine he knows that, and he probably doesn’t do that every day or see accidents on the other side of the road every day. I’ve done some pretty stupid things on bikes, motorcycles, cars, vans, tractors etc. etc. over the last 50 or so years of using the roads, and seen many more but if I were the driver there I’m not sure I would have posted that video.

Sorry, I don't see how you can write the above and also write 'Exactly' under '100% driver's fault.'

The ‘exactly’ was aimed at the last sentence, but ‘fault’ is a strange concept here anyway. If you look at the video again you can see that both road users took evasive action and no collision occurred. The reason I would judge the driver more harshly is that the rider reacted to the accident - I doubt if he is normally that unpredictable. Again, from the video you can see that the cyclist never goes beyond the centre of the lane. The driver would certainly have been judged at fault by the authorities if he had hit the bike based on that video evidence. He could have been in total control of that situation but wasn’t.
Just to think from another perspective, what do you think would have been made of that overtake by a ROADAR examiner or even on an L test?

They both could of and should have done things differently. The rider should have been concentrating on where he was going, as should the driver.

[Cyder]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Both. The cyclist shouldn't move offside without looking/warning and the driver approached far too quickly.

This.

[anonymous-user]

100% cyclist fault. Obvs..

[popeyewhite]

Cyder said:

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Both. The cyclist shouldn't move offside without looking/warning and the driver approached far too quickly.

This.

Nah

Firstly there is no speed readout shown on the clip to justify such a statement.
Secondly the speed differential between the two appears to me to be roughly 5-10 mph at the most. Camera angle doesn't help. Could be more, could be less. One thing it isn't is "far too quickly".

Cyclist swerved across the road, and had he been knocked off it would have been entirely his fault.

[Durzel]

monthou said:

jmcc500 said:

Cyclist is entitled to travel anywhere in the lane,

What does that have to do with anything?

That the driver could only have overtaken the cyclist at all by virtue of it riding to the left of the carriageway, but they are not obliged to do this.

The cyclist did wobble into the middle of the carriageway, but they’re entitled to ride in the middle. It is expected that other road users drive accordingly.

I think the rider was careless, but at the same time the driver put himself into a situation where he had an island to the right and cyclist on the left. He shouldn’t have done that imo. It would’ve cost him a few seconds to wait until they were both clear.