Your opinion on extreme lorry "overtaking"
Discussion
280E said:
MKnight702 said:
I take it you rarely used the A14 between Cambridge and Huntingdon (before the upgrade, I don't use it now so I don't know if it has improved, but I doubt it). I used to commute up and down this road and it was a rare day that I didn't get stuck behind an elephant race for at least one mile.
Do you remember the milk floats on the bit near Huntingdon - trundling along at 10mph with almost-flat batteries?silverfoxcc said:
aka said
I have never witnessed two lorries on a dual carriage way drag it out for 9 minutes like the OP is suggesting , perhaps 1/4 of a mile overtake or on a motorway causing half a dozen cars to move into the outside lane for a bit but to be honest on a motorway it's people in cars who are completely unobservant that cause more issues than 1 lorry overtaking another.
If it was just two lorries involved then yes, 1/4 mile is not unexpected. But on the A14 you aren't dealing with just two lorries, they travel in packs. The pack catches up with a lorry travelling fractionally slower then them and pulls out, dawdles past, in the mean time the next lorry in the train decides to pull out and overtake the first lorry. When this lorry gets past the first lorry he doesn't pull in, he decides to take over the lead of the pack and dawdles past the previous leader, the next lorry in the pack pulls out. ad infinitum.I have never witnessed two lorries on a dual carriage way drag it out for 9 minutes like the OP is suggesting , perhaps 1/4 of a mile overtake or on a motorway causing half a dozen cars to move into the outside lane for a bit but to be honest on a motorway it's people in cars who are completely unobservant that cause more issues than 1 lorry overtaking another.
HughG said:
Getragdogleg said:
No, We pay a huge amount to use the roads and are tightly regulated and tested. The lockdown taught us all that the Lorries are not the problem, its all the cars that need to be out of our way.
We run from Cornwall to Southampton and our runs each way were an hour less in Lockdown, all legal, no speeding. We know exactly where the holdups and delays come from.
Motoring was easier for everyone who had to use the roads during lockdown, less traffic does that, in the same way it’s easier to drive from Kent to Cornwall leaving at 4 in the morning not at 9. Standards of driving seemed higher too. We run from Cornwall to Southampton and our runs each way were an hour less in Lockdown, all legal, no speeding. We know exactly where the holdups and delays come from.
I have recently got an electric car and on few journeys I’ve done nearing it’s maximum range I have set the cruise at 62mph on the motorway. I was staggered how many cars go slower than this; they must be infuriating for lorry drivers.
HughG said:
I have recently got an electric car and on few journeys I’ve done nearing it’s maximum range I have set the cruise at 62mph on the motorway. I was staggered how many cars go slower than this; they must be infuriating for lorry drivers.
That really doesn't surprise me. On a run I generally set my cruise control at a GPS indicated 70 and it is staggering how many cars are *far* slower. I'd go as far as to say I'm in the top few % of "fast" drivers...despite not even breaking the speed limit!
Fastdruid said:
HughG said:
I have recently got an electric car and on few journeys I’ve done nearing it’s maximum range I have set the cruise at 62mph on the motorway. I was staggered how many cars go slower than this; they must be infuriating for lorry drivers.
That really doesn't surprise me. On a run I generally set my cruise control at a GPS indicated 70 and it is staggering how many cars are *far* slower. I'd go as far as to say I'm in the top few % of "fast" drivers...despite not even breaking the speed limit!
Fastdruid said:
That really doesn't surprise me.
On a run I generally set my cruise control at a GPS indicated 70 and it is staggering how many cars are *far* slower. I'd go as far as to say I'm in the top few % of "fast" drivers...despite not even breaking the speed limit!
When I'm in the camper I get into lane 1, cruise up to the back of a truck and sit there and its amazing how many cars I have to pull out and overtake! Some people are happy to drive at 50mph being constantly overtaken by huge wagons. If a truck creeps up and overtakes me and the truck I'm following i pull out and follow that one. On a run I generally set my cruise control at a GPS indicated 70 and it is staggering how many cars are *far* slower. I'd go as far as to say I'm in the top few % of "fast" drivers...despite not even breaking the speed limit!
I do the same if I'm on the motorway on the bike too, no extra pleasure riding in a straight line at 70 than at 60 and it keeps a bit of wind blast off.
geordiepingu said:
s p a c e m a n said:
I think that I overtake more cars than trucks each day, one day I'll remember to keep count
So what's that, two wrongs make a right?Highway code rule 169 applies.
I don’t drive trucks, but I’ve spent a lot of time in them or planning (well re-planning when the actual planner f
ks up) their routes over the last couple of years.
The one thing that strikes me is how on ordinary A roads and motorway trips these vehicles that are limited to no more than 60mph (most of ours are less) don’t take much longer than a car would to reach their destination. It’s only when you end up on Broads or routes with inclines and weight restrictions that they’re much slower.
It’s recalibrated my thinking on driving at speed and while I do sit at 80-90 occasionally it’s usually at night when the roads are deserted.
ks up) their routes over the last couple of years. The one thing that strikes me is how on ordinary A roads and motorway trips these vehicles that are limited to no more than 60mph (most of ours are less) don’t take much longer than a car would to reach their destination. It’s only when you end up on Broads or routes with inclines and weight restrictions that they’re much slower.
It’s recalibrated my thinking on driving at speed and while I do sit at 80-90 occasionally it’s usually at night when the roads are deserted.
aka_kerrly said:
I have never witnessed two lorries on a dual carriage way drag it out for 9 minutes like the OP is suggesting , perhaps 1/4 of a mile overtake or on a motorway causing half a dozen cars to move into the outside lane for a bit but to be honest on a motorway it's people in cars who are completely unobservant that cause more issues than 1 lorry overtaking another.
A 1/4 of a mile overtake? That's only 16 seconds at 56mph.You've not seen a truck overtaking another truck go on much, much longer than that?
I'm surprised because I don't think I've ever seen a truck overtake another that quick.
Trackdayer said:
You're driving on a reasonably busy dual carriageway. Lorry A pulls out to overtake lorry B. After 9 minutes of lane blockage, he still hasn't got past. There's a tailback of 50+ vehicles. Nobody has gained anything.
In your view is this selfish? Inconsiderate? Wrong? Does Lorry A's potential saving of a few seconds off his journey justify delaying the journeys of dozens of others by almost 10 minutes?
Or is this a normal part of everyday driving where lorry drivers are essential workers, can do no wrong and should be exempt from any scrutiny?
You were not delayed by 10mins... You were still moving along at the speed of the trucks, so the delay was the time to go the actual distance minus the time it normally would've taken you to go the same distance. Probably 1 min delay? It always feel worse being slowed down, but leave 10mins earlier and any delays do not cause you to be late. Check FB or whatever sIn your view is this selfish? Inconsiderate? Wrong? Does Lorry A's potential saving of a few seconds off his journey justify delaying the journeys of dozens of others by almost 10 minutes?
Or is this a normal part of everyday driving where lorry drivers are essential workers, can do no wrong and should be exempt from any scrutiny?
Edited by Trackdayer on Monday 12th April 14:12
te social media you chose upon arriving early rather than checking social media and leaving the house with no time to spare. mikecassie said:
Trackdayer said:
You're driving on a reasonably busy dual carriageway. Lorry A pulls out to overtake lorry B. After 9 minutes of lane blockage, he still hasn't got past. There's a tailback of 50+ vehicles. Nobody has gained anything.
In your view is this selfish? Inconsiderate? Wrong? Does Lorry A's potential saving of a few seconds off his journey justify delaying the journeys of dozens of others by almost 10 minutes?
Or is this a normal part of everyday driving where lorry drivers are essential workers, can do no wrong and should be exempt from any scrutiny?
You were not delayed by 10mins... You were still moving along at the speed of the trucks, so the delay was the time to go the actual distance minus the time it normally would've taken you to go the same distance. Probably 1 min delay? It always feel worse being slowed down, but leave 10mins earlier and any delays do not cause you to be late. Check FB or whatever sIn your view is this selfish? Inconsiderate? Wrong? Does Lorry A's potential saving of a few seconds off his journey justify delaying the journeys of dozens of others by almost 10 minutes?
Or is this a normal part of everyday driving where lorry drivers are essential workers, can do no wrong and should be exempt from any scrutiny?
Edited by Trackdayer on Monday 12th April 14:12
te social media you chose upon arriving early rather than checking social media and leaving the house with no time to spare. But everything else written is spot on.
For a while, pre covid obviously, when one of the other umpty million threads on this was running I made a point of noting the distance travelled between joining the back of the queue and then starting to accelerate again to make the pass. It was virtually always less than two miles.
It could be argued, to be completely fair, that those most affected and most delayed by this, are those who plan their travel based on being able to consistently exceed the national speed limit by some margin. In which case the advice to implement better planning and time management still applies but doubly so.
mikecassie said:
You were not delayed by 10mins... You were still moving along at the speed of the trucks, so the delay was the time to go the actual distance minus the time it normally would've taken you to go the same distance. Probably 1 min delay? It always feel worse being slowed down, but leave 10mins earlier and any delays do not cause you to be late. Check FB or whatever ste social media you chose upon arriving early rather than checking social media and leaving the house with no time to spare.
te social media you chose upon arriving early rather than checking social media and leaving the house with no time to spare. 
You have no idea how much I was delayed by as you don't have the data to make that calculation. Granted my maths was off too, I'll admit that. It's more about manners and courtesy. As others have said, a minority of drivers (lorry and car) are utterly inconsiderate.
ps - If I parked and blocked your driveway for 10 minutes in the morning and told you to set off earlier / spend 10 minutes less doing your stamp collecting, how would you feel?
Trackdayer said:
FiF said:
It could be argued, to be completely fair, that those most affected and most delayed by this, are those who plan their travel based on being able to consistently exceed the national speed limit by some margin.
The difference between 70mph and 56mph over that trip is 40minutes extra not "one or two minutes".
Fastdruid said:
Trackdayer said:
FiF said:
It could be argued, to be completely fair, that those most affected and most delayed by this, are those who plan their travel based on being able to consistently exceed the national speed limit by some margin.
The difference between 70mph and 56mph over that trip is 40minutes extra not "one or two minutes".
My observations recounted earlier were also mainly taken on A42, A14 and for good measure A34 further south. Your observations and experience may be different to mine, but based on my lived experience on those roads I reckon you're talking twaddle.
Actually on the A14 I'll make another unrelated observation, the most disruptive vehicles on there were the 100 mph plus merchants away from average cam sections. Various times I'd be catching up a camel train of trucks, all in lane 1, all at limiter type speeds, no elephant racing, a good long hard check in the mirrors, nobody behind as far as can be seen, so pull out and start to overtake at 70. Before reaching front of queue there's some asshat bearing down at three figure speeds, in the worst cases also trying to bully you out of their way. Can't do three figs when you're supposedly stuck with two lanes of elephant racing from end to end.
Trackdayer said:
FiF said:
It could be argued, to be completely fair, that those most affected and most delayed by this, are those who plan their travel based on being able to consistently exceed the national speed limit by some margin.
Mind you - it's not restricted to lorries. The number of people in lane 2 or lane 3 who are not - in my opinion - "overtaking". They are mostly moving marginally faster than the vehicle in the lane to the left of them. Occasionally they're actually moving at the same speed or maybe slightly slower. They THINK they're overtaking, the don't think they're being MLMs. But they're not, they're dawdling.
In my opinion, the definition of an overtake is to move decisively past the slower vehicle and then pull back in as soon as it is safe to do so, completing the maneuver (sic?) as quickly as possible.
NickCQ said:
Solocle said:
As an aside I have always thought that TT'ing on a dual carriageway was a totally mental pastime. I thought that all the A3 testers had been run over years ago but I actually saw some out around Liss last summer.
The sight lines generally more than compensate for 70 mph vs 60 mph. Motorists don't typically have to slow down to overtake. The problems either arise at junctions, or where traffic is dense enough for it to be difficult to move right, or for bunching to occur.
DCs are also smooth, gradually graded, and have few things that make you have to slow down.
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