No Mask, No Entry, No Exceptions
Discussion
MustangGT said:
Graveworm said:
The died within 28 days were used as an estimate - which turned out to be pretty accurate. The final figures come from death certificate primary cause. The excess death figures also line up - it's the same data they use every year for every other cause of death. But keep repeating the Twitter alternative facts. Life expectancy fell for the first time since the war.
Death certificate primary cause can and has been manipulated. My father in law died from Acute Myeloblastic Leukaemia last year. Had been in and out of hospital for 3 years following diagnosis with a life expectancy of 3-4 months. Cause of death on the death certificate? Covid. Just plain wrong!Edited by Graveworm on Saturday 10th December 16:30
It's unlikely that it was manipulated though, as it would be some kind of conspiracy that meant all Doctors were lying on death certificates around the world, in the same way, in rhythm with their levels of Covid cases and then, gradually, reducing the manipulation as vaccines & therapeutics were rolled out (But only for the vaccinated). Then again as less lethal variants became dominant.
Edited by Graveworm on Sunday 11th December 13:55
Graveworm said:
MustangGT said:
Graveworm said:
The died within 28 days were used as an estimate - which turned out to be pretty accurate. The final figures come from death certificate primary cause. The excess death figures also line up - it's the same data they use every year for every other cause of death. But keep repeating the Twitter alternative facts. Life expectancy fell for the first time since the war.
Death certificate primary cause can and has been manipulated. My father in law died from Acute Myeloblastic Leukaemia last year. Had been in and out of hospital for 3 years following diagnosis with a life expectancy of 3-4 months. Cause of death on the death certificate? Covid. Just plain wrong!Edited by Graveworm on Saturday 10th December 16:30
It's unlikely that it was manipulated though, as it would be some kind of conspiracy that meant all Doctors were lying on death certificates around the world, in the same way, in rhythm with their levels of Covid cases and then, gradually, reducing the manipulation as vaccines & therapeutics were rolled out (But only for the vaccinated). Then again as less lethal variants became dominant.
Edited by Graveworm on Sunday 11th December 13:55
k me sideways.i cannot believe you posted that.People with leukemia are vulnerable to EVERYTHING. He died because he had lukemia and something, anything, external was likely to kill him. The fact that covid might have tipped him over the edge doesn't mean " covid killed him". Lukemia did. A cold! Or flu would have done the same. To me his death was a lukemia death (my condolences , poster)
But as anyone who's had their eyes and ears open over the last two years knows, medics used covid as the reason of death every time it was a remote possibility. It was the easy answer, and the encouraged answer. Christ, even the chief nursing officer has now come out and said she was removed from the downing Street briefings after refusing to back Cummins as she didn't agree.
There was a narrative. A nudging system, and most people went along with it. We are way past labelling people conspiracy theorists. That ship has long sailed. A lot of "them" are now being showed to be right.
Part of the problem now is that people who were "duped" by it all are almost impossible to reason with as it's an admission of being conned. Like the maskers who just can't accept that they made sod all difference, even when you show them Scotland and Wales Vs the UK.
It's hard enough to get people to admit they are wrong, but doubly so when they were foolishly duped.
1st Google search. But anyone with half a brain noticed that the Scot/Wales mask love made no difference.
https://thinkscotland.org/2021/12/did-scotlands-ma...
Griffith4ever said:
Graveworm said:
MustangGT said:
Graveworm said:
The died within 28 days were used as an estimate - which turned out to be pretty accurate. The final figures come from death certificate primary cause. The excess death figures also line up - it's the same data they use every year for every other cause of death. But keep repeating the Twitter alternative facts. Life expectancy fell for the first time since the war.
Death certificate primary cause can and has been manipulated. My father in law died from Acute Myeloblastic Leukaemia last year. Had been in and out of hospital for 3 years following diagnosis with a life expectancy of 3-4 months. Cause of death on the death certificate? Covid. Just plain wrong!Edited by Graveworm on Saturday 10th December 16:30
It's unlikely that it was manipulated though, as it would be some kind of conspiracy that meant all Doctors were lying on death certificates around the world, in the same way, in rhythm with their levels of Covid cases and then, gradually, reducing the manipulation as vaccines & therapeutics were rolled out (But only for the vaccinated). Then again as less lethal variants became dominant.
Edited by Graveworm on Sunday 11th December 13:55
k me sideways.i cannot believe you posted that.People with leukemia are vulnerable to EVERYTHING. He died because he had lukemia and something, anything, external was likely to kill him. The fact that covid might have tipped him over the edge doesn't mean " covid killed him". Lukemia did. A cold! Or flu would have done the same. To me his death was a lukemia death (my condolences , poster)
But as anyone who's had their eyes and ears open over the last two years knows, medics used covid as the reason of death every time it was a remote possibility. It was the easy answer, and the encouraged answer. Christ, even the chief nursing officer has now come out and said she was removed from the downing Street briefings after refusing to back Cummins as she didn't agree.
There was a narrative. A nudging system, and most people went along with it. We are way past labelling people conspiracy theorists. That ship has long sailed. A lot of "them" are now being showed to be right.
Part of the problem now is that people who were "duped" by it all are almost impossible to reason with as it's an admission of being conned. Like the maskers who just can't accept that they made sod all difference, even when you show them Scotland and Wales Vs the UK.
It's hard enough to get people to admit they are wrong, but doubly so when they were foolishly duped.
1st Google search. But anyone with half a brain noticed that the Scot/Wales mask love made no difference.
https://thinkscotland.org/2021/12/did-scotlands-ma...
As for your general point if an underlying condition makes you more vulnerable to something the first entry would be what killed you, that's the way it has always been and follows WHO guidelines. The underling cause would be Leukemia and it would appear on the LAST line of box 1, that is not fudging the figures it's exactly how it has always been done. It means they died from more than 1 thing and without, all of them, they likely would not have died when they did. It means the the underlying condition meant the ones above it killed them.
The medics we deal with don't accept your eyes open lay observations. It was no easier, there was no different procedure for Covid deaths there was no encouragement and the guidelines were pretty prescriptive.
Your posting cannot explain the excess deaths being similar, the fall in life expectancy or how the pattern of deaths all around the world tracked infections so closely, including those where there was a post mortem ( by the way Germany PM'd all cases ) and the difference in mortality between variants and vaccinated. For that to all line up would either mean there was a co-ordinated conspiracy or Covid was responsible for a lot of deaths.
What google search was that the first result for as I can't recreate it?
As for Scotland and Wales etc. it's been pointed out so many times including in this thread - that doesn't eliminate any other factors, nor looks at whether those who wore or didn't wear masks were less likely to spread infections. The studies that did all that are the ones that all show and continue to show that mask wearing reduces transmission. If you understood confidence intervals and examined them for those studies you would realise how, especially taken as a whole, how ridiculous it is to dispute it with false equivalencies and anecdotes. There was less evidence that smoking kills.
Edited by Graveworm on Sunday 11th December 15:34
My friends mum died young (48) of cancer during lockdown. She’d been fighting it for years and was riddled with it. What put her off the whole covid thing is that they were constantly testing her during her last days in order to say it was a ‘covid’ death. They tried and failed thankfully for the daughter ordering them to stop testing. She was dying and died in the local well run cottage hospital.
And there was anecdotal stories of them wanting to swab a local pensioner who succumbed to cancer quickly at the same time. He also has multiple sites of cancer.
And there was anecdotal stories of them wanting to swab a local pensioner who succumbed to cancer quickly at the same time. He also has multiple sites of cancer.
chrisgtx said:
My friends mum died young (48) of cancer during lockdown. She’d been fighting it for years and was riddled with it. What put her off the whole covid thing is that they were constantly testing her during her last days in order to say it was a ‘covid’ death. They tried and failed thankfully for the daughter ordering them to stop testing. She was dying and died in the local well run cottage hospital.
And there was anecdotal stories of them wanting to swab a local pensioner who succumbed to cancer quickly at the same time. He also has multiple sites of cancer.
I’m sure she’d love you twisting her final days to meet your cause. And there was anecdotal stories of them wanting to swab a local pensioner who succumbed to cancer quickly at the same time. He also has multiple sites of cancer.
Graveworm said:
MustangGT said:
Graveworm said:
The died within 28 days were used as an estimate - which turned out to be pretty accurate. The final figures come from death certificate primary cause. The excess death figures also line up - it's the same data they use every year for every other cause of death. But keep repeating the Twitter alternative facts. Life expectancy fell for the first time since the war.
Death certificate primary cause can and has been manipulated. My father in law died from Acute Myeloblastic Leukaemia last year. Had been in and out of hospital for 3 years following diagnosis with a life expectancy of 3-4 months. Cause of death on the death certificate? Covid. Just plain wrong!Edited by Graveworm on Saturday 10th December 16:30
It's unlikely that it was manipulated though, as it would be some kind of conspiracy that meant all Doctors were lying on death certificates around the world, in the same way, in rhythm with their levels of Covid cases and then, gradually, reducing the manipulation as vaccines & therapeutics were rolled out (But only for the vaccinated). Then again as less lethal variants became dominant.
Edited by Graveworm on Sunday 11th December 13:55
The only real world measure was to look at how many deaths over the norm expected.
Graveworm said:
I didn't say they didn't die from Leukemia. The poster said they died from Leukemia and I have no reason to doubt them.
So why did you post the following in an earlier post?Graveworm said:
That's tragic and I am so sorry to hear that. It doesn't mean the underlying world wide data is way out and it wouldn't explain the excess deaths or fall in life expectancy. People with Leukaemia were very vulnerable to Covid.
It's unlikely that it was manipulated though
It was clearly manipulated in his case, and I have no doubt others have been manipulated as well.It's unlikely that it was manipulated though
Excess deaths are often quoted. No one was allowed to see a doc or get worrying symptoms checked for two years.
Sure , of course some were. But there was a pattern.
My local surgery was almost impossible to visit and all checks on my "serious blood pressure " issues, which I was urgently contacted about pre pandemic, were absolutely totally ignored until this year when I got a new GP. I also paid myself to have a prostate check last year as I was worried but my surgery was practically closed.
No wonder so many people died (and are now, in larger numbers).
I know covid killed people, but no way did it kill anywhere NEAR what is being suggested by our authorities and the WHO.
I will say this. I didn't question this figures from our government, nor organisations like the WHO, pre pandemic, but after all I've seen, experienced, and learnt over the last two years, I most definitely do now. I don't think there is any kind of overarching organisation behind much of anything, more like serious incompetence, and inability of politicians to admit when they are wrong.
Sure , of course some were. But there was a pattern.
My local surgery was almost impossible to visit and all checks on my "serious blood pressure " issues, which I was urgently contacted about pre pandemic, were absolutely totally ignored until this year when I got a new GP. I also paid myself to have a prostate check last year as I was worried but my surgery was practically closed.
No wonder so many people died (and are now, in larger numbers).
I know covid killed people, but no way did it kill anywhere NEAR what is being suggested by our authorities and the WHO.
I will say this. I didn't question this figures from our government, nor organisations like the WHO, pre pandemic, but after all I've seen, experienced, and learnt over the last two years, I most definitely do now. I don't think there is any kind of overarching organisation behind much of anything, more like serious incompetence, and inability of politicians to admit when they are wrong.
Edited by Griffith4ever on Tuesday 13th December 09:55
Edited by Griffith4ever on Tuesday 13th December 09:58
Griffith4ever said:
Excess deaths are often quoted. No one was allowed to see a doc or get worrying symptoms checked for two years.
Sure , of course some were. But there was a pattern.
My local surgery was almost impossible to visit and all checks on my "serious blood pressure " issues, which I was urgently contacted about pre pandemic, were absolutely totally ignored until this year when I got a new GP. I also paid myself to have a prostate check last year as I was worried but my surgery was practically closed.
No wonder so many people died (and are now, in larger numbers).
I know covid killed people, but no way did it kill anywhere NEAR what is being suggested by our authorities and the WHO.
I will say this. I didn't question this figures from our government, nor organisations like the WHO, pre pandemic, but after all I've seen, experienced, and learnt over the last two years, I most definitely do now. I don't think there is any kind of overarching organisation behind much of anything, more like serious incompetence, and inability of politicians to admit when they are wrong.
This happened in my village. Someone I’d known for years suffered a sudden memory loss which was diagnosed as a brain tumour. His surgery was delayed for 6 months due to Covid, then he died. I can’t say he’d definitely have survived if he’d been treated earlier but he’d have had a much better chance.Sure , of course some were. But there was a pattern.
My local surgery was almost impossible to visit and all checks on my "serious blood pressure " issues, which I was urgently contacted about pre pandemic, were absolutely totally ignored until this year when I got a new GP. I also paid myself to have a prostate check last year as I was worried but my surgery was practically closed.
No wonder so many people died (and are now, in larger numbers).
I know covid killed people, but no way did it kill anywhere NEAR what is being suggested by our authorities and the WHO.
I will say this. I didn't question this figures from our government, nor organisations like the WHO, pre pandemic, but after all I've seen, experienced, and learnt over the last two years, I most definitely do now. I don't think there is any kind of overarching organisation behind much of anything, more like serious incompetence, and inability of politicians to admit when they are wrong.
Edited by Griffith4ever on Tuesday 13th December 09:55
Edited by Griffith4ever on Tuesday 13th December 09:58
Was that a ‘Covid Death’?
CharlesdeGaulle said:
I confess I'm rather more enthusiastic about making any incoming Chinese wear a mask than I am about wearing one myself!
why not stop trying to tell other what to do. If you have been jabbed which is your free choice then you are protected are you not?
Virus is going to spread no matter what - has this not been clear from the last 2 years?
Steve H said:
If you haven’t been persuaded by the overwhelming majority of the scientific community by now, you stick to your guns 
Ah, but Karen on Facebook is a critical thinker and did her own research you sheeple (or is it sheeperson in the singular?). Everyone knows it's all down to the 5G and masks amplify all Gs of 4 and up. (As an aside it is amusing how many self-professed "critical thinkers" who "do their own research" have no sense of irony that they are taking umbrage with actual professional critical thinkers who literally do actual research. It's the same thing as doing internet searches for Lego and then standing outside a building site telling passers-by that the brickies on the site don't know how to lay bricks because your research shows they should be held together with plastic knobbly bits)
Steve H said:
If you haven’t been persuaded by the overwhelming majority of the scientific community by now, you stick to your guns
By the way, even if it just reminds people to keep a more sensible distance, what’s the harm with a mask?
A) no, I'm not pursuaded. I've not seen anything to prove our fabric and paper masks make a significance difference in the spread of covid.By the way, even if it just reminds people to keep a more sensible distance, what’s the harm with a mask?
B) you what?! When masks were introduced people felt safer and immediate dropped any form of distancing. It was night and day different as soon as they were mandated.
caziques said:
An explosion of covid cases in China - think how much worse it would be if there was no mask wearing.
Still don't understand how anyone can actually believe wearing a mask has any effect on the spread of covid, under no circumstances will I ever wear one in the future.
Can I ask where you get the evidence for your decision and/or opinion?Still don't understand how anyone can actually believe wearing a mask has any effect on the spread of covid, under no circumstances will I ever wear one in the future.
One alternative to your view is https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-cor...
babelfish said:
caziques said:
An explosion of covid cases in China - think how much worse it would be if there was no mask wearing.
Still don't understand how anyone can actually believe wearing a mask has any effect on the spread of covid, under no circumstances will I ever wear one in the future.
Can I ask where you get the evidence for your decision and/or opinion?Still don't understand how anyone can actually believe wearing a mask has any effect on the spread of covid, under no circumstances will I ever wear one in the future.
One alternative to your view is https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-cor...
What It doesn't do is show why, with proven stats, per each different type of mask, WITH covid used for testing, or similar sized particles.
So yes, it IS an alternative view. But it's just that.
What people like me have been banging our heads against the wall about for years now, is, clearly, proper medical sealed type masks DO work, but flimsy paper masks and "fashion" fabric masks, don't make a jot of difference with regards to containing covid. If you are worried, wear a proper, medical N95 type mask and leave the rest of us alone. It is not our job to comfort you.
Edited by Griffith4ever on Saturday 31st December 03:09
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