No Mask, No Entry, No Exceptions
Discussion
sevensfun said:
Countdown said:
I may have missed something. Can you point to something that says you can be exempt by simply deciding not to wear a mask?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-co...
Right at the very top: GUIDANCE https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-co...
It also says you can have a reason (medical in your view) which doesn’t need to be validated by a health professional.
Have some legislation instead:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regul...
Take a look at "Reasonable excuse" and tell us which one says "because I don't like it so there". Yes, you could lie by picking one in the list that can't easily be argued, but that's not what you claimed, is it.
donkmeister said:
Ah... You are getting tripped up by the fact that "Guidance" and "Law" can indeed agree.
Have some legislation instead:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regul...
Take a look at "Reasonable excuse" and tell us which one says "because I don't like it so there". Yes, you could lie by picking one in the list that can't easily be argued, but that's not what you claimed, is it.
I find them severely distressing (totally honest)Have some legislation instead:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regul...
Take a look at "Reasonable excuse" and tell us which one says "because I don't like it so there". Yes, you could lie by picking one in the list that can't easily be argued, but that's not what you claimed, is it.
How’s that for you?
sevensfun said:
How many times ?!You don’t need to pretend to have a disability to be exempt. You can simply decide you have had enough of wearing a mask and that’s why you’re exempt.
3.—(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, enter or remain within a relevant place without wearing a face covering.4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
Graveworm said:
3.—(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, enter or remain within a relevant place without wearing a face covering.
4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
How will they prove I don’t find it extremely distressing?4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
Look guys, we are never going to agree on this, and mocking non-mask wearers isn't going to make them wear one. So what's the point? does it make you feel better?
Some of us think they are largely nonsense in MOST scenarios. I don't think many on here would argue on a packed bus they would be a reasonably good thing to wear. But most of the time, the environment is far from like that.
Those of us that feel this way, and are happy to put their head above the parapet, don't wear them most of the time.
The fact you might not agree with this doesn't make us stupid, or selfish, or a nutter. It just means
a) we don't agree
or
b) we do agree but you don't mind being more compliant even in the face of doubt - that's fine (for you) - that's the same reason why people can't merge in turn and feel compelled to join the "queue".
I'll highlight what I though was a very relevant conversation a short while back with a friend who'd have covid last year. We were in the pub sat at our table, obviously with our masks removed. Except I never had one on in the 1st place and don't wear one.
My mate - "here, don't you worry about , you know, catching, or spreading it, with no mask ?"
me- "The government advice was that the high risk scenario for transmission was sitting less than 2m apart, and spending more than around 10 minutes in that proximity , in a poorly ventilated area, correct?"
My mate - "yes.."
Me - "right, well, that's us, right now, and for the last hour, right?"
My mate "....er, yes".
Me, "So we are are doing the worst we can, and then when I go to the toilet, unmasked, I walk by perhaps 2 people, almost always members of staff, who are masked, and I am in their prximity for what? 1 second, perhaps less?".
My mate - "hmm yes".
Me, "so all the risk is us sat here right now, and yet I'm supposed to mask up when I leave the riskiest environment I could be in?".
It's just mad. Stupid. But I get it - it's a simple rule as if we were given more nuanced rules to allow for common sense, every covid briefing would be wall to wall questions from the media about if we need to wear a mask only when sat on the loo, or not if standing. That kind of nonsense, which they are all over every time new rules are introduced.
I'm all for helping not be part of the problem, but I'm intelligent enough to realise what's a farce and what is not, and make my own decisions.
Some of us think they are largely nonsense in MOST scenarios. I don't think many on here would argue on a packed bus they would be a reasonably good thing to wear. But most of the time, the environment is far from like that.
Those of us that feel this way, and are happy to put their head above the parapet, don't wear them most of the time.
The fact you might not agree with this doesn't make us stupid, or selfish, or a nutter. It just means
a) we don't agree
or
b) we do agree but you don't mind being more compliant even in the face of doubt - that's fine (for you) - that's the same reason why people can't merge in turn and feel compelled to join the "queue".
I'll highlight what I though was a very relevant conversation a short while back with a friend who'd have covid last year. We were in the pub sat at our table, obviously with our masks removed. Except I never had one on in the 1st place and don't wear one.
My mate - "here, don't you worry about , you know, catching, or spreading it, with no mask ?"
me- "The government advice was that the high risk scenario for transmission was sitting less than 2m apart, and spending more than around 10 minutes in that proximity , in a poorly ventilated area, correct?"
My mate - "yes.."
Me - "right, well, that's us, right now, and for the last hour, right?"
My mate "....er, yes".
Me, "So we are are doing the worst we can, and then when I go to the toilet, unmasked, I walk by perhaps 2 people, almost always members of staff, who are masked, and I am in their prximity for what? 1 second, perhaps less?".
My mate - "hmm yes".
Me, "so all the risk is us sat here right now, and yet I'm supposed to mask up when I leave the riskiest environment I could be in?".
It's just mad. Stupid. But I get it - it's a simple rule as if we were given more nuanced rules to allow for common sense, every covid briefing would be wall to wall questions from the media about if we need to wear a mask only when sat on the loo, or not if standing. That kind of nonsense, which they are all over every time new rules are introduced.
I'm all for helping not be part of the problem, but I'm intelligent enough to realise what's a farce and what is not, and make my own decisions.
Graveworm said:
4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
It's not an exhaustive list.However, as posted above, the two sides to this argument will never find common ground. Like others, I will continue to not wear a mask and just answer "I'm exempt" when I (very rarely) get asked. If others want to continue to wear their masks, carry on.
sevensfun said:
Graveworm said:
3.—(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, enter or remain within a relevant place without wearing a face covering.
4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
How will they prove I don’t find it extremely distressing?4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
2) As above they don't have to prove anything you have to prove that you cannot without severe distress.
Graveworm said:
1) Which has what to do with "You can simply decide you have had enough of wearing a mask and that’s why you’re exempt."
2) As above they don't have to prove anything you have to prove that you cannot without severe distress.
Re 2) No I don’t. Who do I need to prove that to?2) As above they don't have to prove anything you have to prove that you cannot without severe distress.
Graveworm said:
sevensfun said:
Graveworm said:
3.—(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, enter or remain within a relevant place without wearing a face covering.
4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
How will they prove I don’t find it extremely distressing?4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
2) As above they don't have to prove anything you have to prove that you cannot without severe distress.
Are you going to squeal like a stuck piggy if you see someone without a mask you think should have one? or will you just fume, tut and be righteous under your mask that you are obeying?
superlightr said:
hey - unjust and immoral laws deserve to be ignored and gotten around which may include a lie.
Are you going to squeel like a stuck piggy if you see someone without a mask you think should have one? or will you just fume, tut and be rightous under your mask that you are obeying?
He will probably go on pistonheads, post the law and tell everyone how silly they are rather than saying anything. Little cowards Are you going to squeel like a stuck piggy if you see someone without a mask you think should have one? or will you just fume, tut and be rightous under your mask that you are obeying?
sevensfun said:
donkmeister said:
Ah... You are getting tripped up by the fact that "Guidance" and "Law" can indeed agree.
Have some legislation instead:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regul...
Take a look at "Reasonable excuse" and tell us which one says "because I don't like it so there". Yes, you could lie by picking one in the list that can't easily be argued, but that's not what you claimed, is it.
I find them severely distressing (totally honest)Have some legislation instead:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regul...
Take a look at "Reasonable excuse" and tell us which one says "because I don't like it so there". Yes, you could lie by picking one in the list that can't easily be argued, but that's not what you claimed, is it.
How’s that for you?
sevensfun said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Yes, some people do get upset when their sense of entitlement isn't recognised by others. It's often quite funny to watch. Bit like reading your posts.
I’m not upset in the slightest. It’s the mask frothers that seem upset. Hth. superlightr said:
Graveworm said:
sevensfun said:
Graveworm said:
3.—(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, enter or remain within a relevant place without wearing a face covering.
4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
How will they prove I don’t find it extremely distressing?4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 F1), or
(ii)without severe distress;
Where the defendant to an information or complaint relies for his defence on any exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification, whether or not it accompanies the description of the offence or matter of complaint in the enactment creating the offence or on which the complaint is founded, the burden or proving the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification shall be on him; and this notwithstanding that the information or complaint contains an allegation negativing the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification.
2) As above they don't have to prove anything you have to prove that you cannot without severe distress.
Are you going to squeel like a stuck piggy if you see someone without a mask you think should have one? or will you just fume, tut and be rightous under your mask that you are obeying?
Why would it worry me?
In your world - Who gets to decide if a law is unjust, some think property ownership is unjust can they help themselves to your stuff? You OK with those who point out that age of consent is arbitrary? Most importantly how does it help the cause of justice by being dishonest about your condition?
sevensfun said:
Graveworm said:
1) Which has what to do with "You can simply decide you have had enough of wearing a mask and that’s why you’re exempt."
2) As above they don't have to prove anything you have to prove that you cannot without severe distress.
Re 2) No I don’t. Who do I need to prove that to?2) As above they don't have to prove anything you have to prove that you cannot without severe distress.
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