Sketchy towing

[Spare tyre]

The Spruce Goose said:

Spare tyre said:

Amazing, truly amazing

''That's fking mental... They not strapped there just tied''

I wish he had followed him..

I do a decent amount of towing from time to time, but not enough to warrant a full car trailer. A dolly seems like an excellent compromise, but it seems so unsafe. Amazed they are allowed

[john2443]

Spare tyre said:

I do a decent amount of towing from time to time, but not enough to warrant a full car trailer. A dolly seems like an excellent compromise, but it seems so unsafe. Amazed they are allowed

I think they are only allowed for recovery, not transport, and the towed vehicle has to be road legal otherwise you should use a trailer so that all wheels are off the ground.

[Trackdayer]

I know with an A-frame the towed vehicle doesn't have to be taxed, MOT'd or insured.

For the purposes of A-framing it's classed as a trailer. So the only relevant legality is tread on the tyres.

[geeks]

Trackdayer said:

I know with an A-frame the towed vehicle doesn't have to be taxed, MOT'd or insured.

For the purposes of A-framing it's classed as a trailer. So the only relevant legality is tread on the tyres.

Are you sure about that?

[gazza285]

geeks said:

Trackdayer said:

I know with an A-frame the towed vehicle doesn't have to be taxed, MOT'd or insured.

For the purposes of A-framing it's classed as a trailer. So the only relevant legality is tread on the tyres.

Are you sure about that?

If only there was somewhere with the definitive answer.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/a-frame...

[Trackdayer]

geeks said:

Are you sure about that?

Yep, see link above ^

I wouldn't have posted it if it were wrong.

[gazza285]

Trackdayer said:

geeks said:

Are you sure about that?

Yep, see link above ^

I wouldn't have posted it if it were wrong.

You didn’t mention the legality of the brakes…

[Trackdayer]

gazza285 said:

You didn’t mention the legality of the brakes…

A-frames don't use brakes.

[paulrockliffe]

Trackdayer said:

gazza285 said:

You didn’t mention the legality of the brakes…

A-frames don't use brakes.

But a trailer the weight of a car would require brakes wouldn't it? And they would need to be applied with the towing vehicles brakes wouldn't they? i'm not claiming expertise, and I've not read that link, because you know, this is PistonHeads, but I'm fairly sure I've seen complicated mechanisms on A-Frames to meet braking requirements.

On the air/hydraulic brake thing, the other advantage that I imagine air brakes have is that bleeding off air is also bleeding off heat. Though perhaps air's lower capacity for absorbing heat tips that balance back towards hydraulics?

[Trackdayer]

paulrockliffe said:

But a trailer the weight of a car would require brakes wouldn't it?

AFAIK if you are moving a broken down car to a place of safety that doesn't apply.

That's the legal theory I believe.

The reality is I've a-framed for 15 years and probably 100,000 miles. Been stopped a few times by police and never had an issue beyond some rather dense officers in Norfolk querying why nobody was sat in the drivers seat of the tow car!

Just keep your tyres legal and you're good to go.

[bigothunter]

Trackdayer said:

paulrockliffe said:

But a trailer the weight of a car would require brakes wouldn't it?

AFAIK if you are moving a broken down car to a place of safety that doesn't apply.

That's the legal theory I believe.

The reality is I've a-framed for 15 years and probably 100,000 miles. Been stopped a few times by police and never had an issue beyond some rather dense officers in Norfolk querying why nobody was sat in the drivers seat of the tow car!

Just keep your tyres legal and you're good to go.

Max deceleration of 4 m/s2 (0.4g) could be interesting especially if you've just hit somebody

[gazza285]

Trackdayer said:

gazza285 said:

You didn’t mention the legality of the brakes…

A-frames don't use brakes.

Try reading the link I posted, it is quite clear that an A-frame attached to a car being towed is classed as a trailer, and trailer laws then apply, including braking systems.

[Trackdayer]

gazza285 said:

Try reading the link I posted, it is quite clear that an A-frame attached to a car being towed is classed as a trailer, and trailer laws then apply, including braking systems.

Try reading what I said regarding moving immobile vehicles.

[bigothunter]

Trackdayer said:

gazza285 said:

Try reading the link I posted, it is quite clear that an A-frame attached to a car being towed is classed as a trailer, and trailer laws then apply, including braking systems.

Try reading what I said regarding moving immobile vehicles.

But you are still taking a risk which you will probably get away with, until something nasty happens and you can't stop. Then the law will be all over you like a rash

[Trackdayer]

bigothunter said:

But you are still taking a risk which you will probably get away with, until something nasty happens and you can't stop. Then the law will be all over you like a rash

Okay if you say so.

[bigothunter]

Trackdayer said:

bigothunter said:

But you are still taking a risk which you will probably get away with, until something nasty happens and you can't stop. Then the law will be all over you like a rash

Okay if you say so.

Go safely dear chap. Hope to see you at future track days. I'll be towing a Brian James RT4 behind a great big white van. All wheels braked and legal

[Trackdayer]

bigothunter said:

Go safely dear chap. Hope to see you at future track days. I'll be towing a Brian James RT4 behind a great big white van. All wheels braked and legal

Oh really? I thought you'd be in something a bit safer than that.

[gazza285]

Trackdayer said:

gazza285 said:

Try reading the link I posted, it is quite clear that an A-frame attached to a car being towed is classed as a trailer, and trailer laws then apply, including braking systems.

Try reading what I said regarding moving immobile vehicles.

I read what you said, then backed up my point with a link to the legislation. Just because you haven't been stopped doesn't make it legal.

Unless of course you can point out the exemption for immobile vehicles...

[bigothunter]

Trackdayer said:

Oh really? I thought you'd be in something a bit safer than that.

Back in the 70's, I borrowed a car trailer without any brakes. Had no money so we made do with old crap. Tow car was a Cortina. When loaded, this lethal combination provoked the tow car to lock all wheels even under moderate braking. Frightened the st out of me.

Doubt whether your unbraked towing dolly with car onboard, will exceed 4m/s2 even on a high mu dry surface. That's asking for trouble especially for long fast journeys to race circuits, made worse when the driver is tired after a long day.

Please take a step back and consider the risk. Currently it doesn't make sense.

[Trackdayer]

bigothunter said:

Back in the 70's, I borrowed a car trailer without any brakes. Had no money so we made do with old crap. Tow car was a Cortina. When loaded, this lethal combination provoked the tow car to lock all wheels even under moderate braking. Frightened the st out of me.

Doubt whether your unbraked towing dolly with car onboard, will exceed 4m/s2 even on a high mu dry surface. That's asking for trouble especially for long fast journeys to race circuits, made worse when the driver is tired after a long day.

Please take a step back and consider the risk. Currently it doesn't make sense.

I don't have a towing dolly.

I have an A-frame and a braked trailer (PRG Sport). You also have no idea of the weights involved, the specification of my brakes, tyres etc or the speed that I tow at. So you're not really in any state to make a judgement on it's safety. Especially not when you tow with a transit