60 mph motorways

[livinginasia]

bigothunter said:

Excellent ideas but unfortunately they don't stand a chance. There is no way back - things have changed (and got worse) for ever

Yes, sadly I agree with you. I will be spending more time in Asia again now travel is easier post Covid, it’s lovely driving there without the oppression that we have here.

[FiF]

bigothunter said:

livinginasia said:

NMNeil said:

And what's your suggestion to stop a war that was started by the actions of a small minority of motorists?

I have hundreds of suggestions:

Stop ULEZ expansion as it was signed off using massaged figures.

Remove “smart” motorways and put them back to having a hard shoulder and instead of variable speed limits, use the signs to remind traffic to keep left unless overtaking and police them properly

Remove parking enforcement by ANPR - if you want to charge for parking, make people buy a ticket and employ someone to check them.

Widen the roads again in the City of London and re install the bus stops that are now in live traffic lanes back to where they used to be.

Re phase traffic lights to keep traffic moving and stop turning red to stop traffic for no reason

Reduce tax on fuel

Return a lot of the recently reduced speed limits to where they were for the last 50 years…….

So many more …… this could take all night…..

Excellent ideas but unfortunately they don't stand a chance. There is no way back - things have changed (and got worse) for ever

Agreed, for some reason private transport in the guise of the private car has been demonised, and has been punished in multiple ways, there is no other word to describe what has happened. Yet other forms of transport have had funds thrown at them, which that has been done unevenly, possibly unfairly one might say, but continues to demand ever more, and still don't provide an adequate nor economic service.

I was in S Yorks in the 70s, even I used the bus to get to and from work, yes, me, a bus w*nker. Another one would be along in a few minutes, 10p to get from city centre Snig Hill PS to home near the boundary with Peak District OK you could argue about the rates, but the city thrived.

[LukeBrown66]

Nobody replied earlier

Are these 60mph clean emissions areas policed by cameras speed units or just advisory?

That will give you the you are looking for maybe

[Sslink]

LukeBrown66 said:

Nobody replied earlier

Are these 60mph clean emissions areas policed by cameras speed units or just advisory?

That will give you the you are looking for maybe

The M602 is "policed" by temporary 60mph + speed camera signs https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4886873,-2.37362... however, I don't recall ever seeing any speed cameras, fixed or otherwise, so make of that what you will.

[FiF]

I think the policing of these may vary from area to area. Certainly I know part of the M1, one section is within a section of All Lanes Running 'Smart' Motorway and is policed by gantry cameras, yet a section of the M5 is not so policed. As always with anything involving our roads the answer is "It all depends, devil in the detail, keep eyes open, pay attention."

[bigothunter]

FiF said:

Agreed, for some reason private transport in the guise of the private car has been demonised, and has been punished in multiple ways, there is no other word to describe what has happened.

Problems caused by car use need attention. For instance, congestion both urban and inter-urban and localised exhaust pollution in towns and cities. Ironically buses are the most acute fume generators in the high street.

But why do virtually all policies have to be so negative? Transport efficiency is regressing backwards. What happened to enlightened planning? It should be a fundamental criterion to any transport decision.

Have blind political dogma and greedy money-making schemes become the dominant factors now?

[Turbobanana]

livinginasia said:

I have hundreds of suggestions:

Stop ULEZ expansion as it was signed off using massaged figures. It's a "nice little earner" though, so unlikely to get stopped

Remove “smart” motorways and put them back to having a hard shoulder and instead of variable speed limits, use the signs to remind traffic to keep left unless overtaking and police them properly Excellent idea, although I'd probably argue that anyone paying so little attention that they are zombie-ing along in the middle lane won't notice the signage

Remove parking enforcement by ANPR - if you want to charge for parking, make people buy a ticket and employ someone to check them. Involves expense, so unlikely to happen

Widen the roads again in the City of London and re install the bus stops that are now in live traffic lanes back to where they used to be. I have no comment for this

Re phase traffic lights to keep traffic moving and stop turning red to stop traffic for no reason Good call: those movement sensors are a good thing, sensing the approach of traffic and changing lights to green unless there's a compelling reason not to

Reduce tax on fuel Again, unlikely as this is a government revenue stream

Return a lot of the recently reduced speed limits to where they were for the last 50 years……. Would be lovely, wouldn't it? Sadly, where these are genuinely for safety reasons (rather than pollution), I think there needs to be an element of increased driver education for this to happen, given how crowded roads are now

So many more …… this could take all night…..

[W124Bob]

martinbiz said:

Ah yes Car Wow, that well known reliable source of updates and correct motoring news. i wonder if thats the same car wow that joined in on the bandwagon of zero tolerance speed limits on motorways a couple of years ago

I do wonder if it's that hard to distinguish between real news and click bait

And hosted by some bloke who sounds like Kevin Turvey!

[oyster]

This war on the motorist was a phrase, if I recall, coined in the noughties to coincide with such things as proliferation of speed cameras, fuel duty escalator, London congestion charge and so on.

In the 15 years or so since, I don't think things have worsened quite as dramatically.
The smart motorway I use frequently flows much better most days (though worse on some because of lane closures). Fuel tax against my income has plummeted. Speed cameras don't seem to have proliferated as much as I feared.

There are some bad things of course - the money grab from local councils for car parking, the ULEZ expansion - both near me. But these are cash cows and they're not centrally driven.

[donkmeister]

oyster said:

This war on the motorist was a phrase, if I recall, coined in the noughties to coincide with such things as proliferation of speed cameras, fuel duty escalator, London congestion charge and so on.

I've always thought it a bizarre phrase - it would make more sense if motorists were a small homogeneous clique of tweed-wearing chaps in MGs and Austins, and 95% of people didn't have access to a car. As it is, I dare say "motorist" describes the majority of the adult population.

We may as well say that the energy crisis is "war on people who like to be warm in their houses", or that BoE rate increases are "war on mortgaged householders". Sometimes things we like become harder to do or more expensive. Banning class A drugs wasn't "War on Winston Churchill"

[NMNeil]

livinginasia said:

NMNeil said:

And what's your suggestion to stop a war that was started by the actions of a small minority of motorists?

I have hundreds of suggestions:

Stop ULEZ expansion as it was signed off using massaged figures.

Remove “smart” motorways and put them back to having a hard shoulder and instead of variable speed limits, use the signs to remind traffic to keep left unless overtaking and police them properly

Remove parking enforcement by ANPR - if you want to charge for parking, make people buy a ticket and employ someone to check them.

Widen the roads again in the City of London and re install the bus stops that are now in live traffic lanes back to where they used to be.

Re phase traffic lights to keep traffic moving and stop turning red to stop traffic for no reason

Reduce tax on fuel

Return a lot of the recently reduced speed limits to where they were for the last 50 years…….

So many more …… this could take all night…..

ULEZ I agree on, as the ICE engine is on the way out so any expansion is pointless.
Smart motorways: I have no experience of and can't comment.
If you don't enforce parking restrictions the whole of London would come to a standstill with drivers parking wherever they liked.


Widen the roads yes, and use that extra width for more dedicated bus lanes and protected cycle lanes, not to attract even more cars.
Traffic light phasing, yes, agreed. Keep the traffic flowing.
Governments rarely if ever reduce taxes, they increase them, no matter where you live.
You know my position on speed limits, but you need to be able to stand up and say "We need to be able to drive faster because". Tricky one that.
As in many things, the actions of a small minority fk it up for everyone else.

[gt_12345]

Most of these policies are to address the fact they let 7 million people in to a country with 58 million people.

They just won't admit it.

[bigothunter]

NMNeil said:

You know my position on speed limits, but you need to be able to stand up and say "We need to be able to drive faster because". Tricky one that.

Not tricky at all. Speed is of the essence to transport efficiency. Victorians sought faster travel enhancing the economy and lifestyle of the general population. Elon Musk recognises the importance of high speed with his 760mph Hyperloop proposal (San Francisco to Los Angeles in 30 minutes).

So how can time saving be irrelevant in the case of road transport?

[NMNeil]

bigothunter said:

NMNeil said:

You know my position on speed limits, but you need to be able to stand up and say "We need to be able to drive faster because". Tricky one that.

Not tricky at all. Speed is of the essence to transport efficiency. Victorians sought faster travel enhancing the economy and lifestyle of the general population. Elon Musk recognises the importance of high speed with his 760mph Hyperloop proposal (San Francisco to Los Angeles in 30 minutes).

So how can time saving be irrelevant in the case of road transport?

Mass transit and the private car are vastly different.

[bigothunter]

NMNeil said:

Mass transit and the private car are vastly different.

Hyperloop can only accommodate 18 to 24 passengers. More than a car but hardly mass transit.

Inference is that public transport is the way forward for long distances, whereas the private car should be relegated to local trips where speed is relatively unimportant. Do you agree?

[vonhosen]

bigothunter said:

NMNeil said:

You know my position on speed limits, but you need to be able to stand up and say "We need to be able to drive faster because". Tricky one that.

Not tricky at all. Speed is of the essence to transport efficiency. Victorians sought faster travel enhancing the economy and lifestyle of the general population. Elon Musk recognises the importance of high speed with his 760mph Hyperloop proposal (San Francisco to Los Angeles in 30 minutes).

So how can time saving be irrelevant in the case of road transport?

I remember discussing similar transport with John Whitmore at least a decade ago but for international & continental journeys.

[NMNeil]

bigothunter said:

NMNeil said:

Mass transit and the private car are vastly different.

Hyperloop can only accommodate 18 to 24 passengers. More than a car but hardly mass transit.

Inference is that public transport is the way forward for long distances, whereas the private car should be relegated to local trips where speed is relatively unimportant. Do you agree?

I don't believe the hyperloop will come to anything. Way too much investment needed building it to ever make it economic. "Leaked financial documents in 2016 suggested that Musk’s Hyperloop would cost as much as $13 billion, or $121 million per mile" You will either have to charge a hefty ticket price to ride on it, or expect it to break even after a few decades. And think how much energy would be needed to keep the tubes at near absolute vacuum. I hope I'm wrong, but can't see that it has a future.
As for cars just being for local travel, I don't think that one size fits all. But you already have an alternative that covers both long distance and local using the same method as the Eurotunnel. Drive to Dover, drive onto a train and drive off in Europe. It's being used here in the US on a small scale, but could easily be expanded. Best of both worlds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w6j8SpLCF4

[bigothunter]

NMNeil said:

As for cars just being for local travel, I don't think that one size fits all. But you already have an alternative that covers both long distance and local using the same method as the Eurotunnel. Drive to Dover, drive onto a train and drive off in Europe. It's being used here in the US on a small scale, but could easily be expanded. Best of both worlds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w6j8SpLCF4

I've travelled on Eurotunnel on many occasions. Certainly efficient but what a grim experience

I'd rather travel by ferry and enjoy the crossing...

[NMNeil]

bigothunter said:

I've travelled on Eurotunnel on many occasions. Certainly efficient but what a grim experience

I'd rather travel by ferry and enjoy the crossing...

Never used the tunnel but often went on the Folkstone to Boulogne ferry booze cruises back in the day.
As the Beatles once sang on Back in the USSR "On the way the paper bag was on my knee". I even used to get queazy on the Woolwich ferry