60 mph motorways
Discussion
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
oyster said:
I’m yet to be convinced that I can travel any quicker from A to B on a 70mph limit motorway than I can on a 60mph limited one, other than during very quiet times. And plainly, by their very emptiness, we don’t use motorways much at quiet times.
Other than a shallow, short-lived and ultimately futile feeling of progress getting to 70/80 on a busy motorway, it almost always ends up taking the same journey time.
I’ve sat in Lane 1/2 at 58/60 sometimes and watched how I get overtaken by a particularly memorable vehicle doing 70/80 in lane 4, only to then see it again 15 miles later as lane 3/4 snarls up.
Likewise when I’ve been that lane 4 driver passing a slowcoach in lane 1 and then seeing the fecker re-pass me sometime later when we get all nose to tail in lane 4.
I know which one gets me to my destination feeling less stressed.
And that's the truth.Other than a shallow, short-lived and ultimately futile feeling of progress getting to 70/80 on a busy motorway, it almost always ends up taking the same journey time.
I’ve sat in Lane 1/2 at 58/60 sometimes and watched how I get overtaken by a particularly memorable vehicle doing 70/80 in lane 4, only to then see it again 15 miles later as lane 3/4 snarls up.
Likewise when I’ve been that lane 4 driver passing a slowcoach in lane 1 and then seeing the fecker re-pass me sometime later when we get all nose to tail in lane 4.
I know which one gets me to my destination feeling less stressed.
Had a lovely drive out last week most of it was on "national speed limit roads" doubt if I got over 40MPH for most of it. Mind you on some parts the centre of the road was marked by grass and for most of it it was single track with passing places. Still a brilliant drive that tested car and driver.
David-p5d5m said:
Three pages in, but still no alternative suggestions for quickly reducing local air pollution.
Didn't realise we were expected to be coming up with alternative suggestions. Mine would be turning those wind turbines into fans by supplying them with power, so that they can actively blow all the pollution away. There you go. The most alternative suggestion I could come up with.David-p5d5m said:
Three pages in, but still no alternative suggestions for quickly reducing local air pollution.
Sorry, didn't realise we should be offering alternative solutions. I vote for extermination of people who aren't me, my family (most of) and my friends. As long as we don't burn them we should be good.
David-p5d5m said:
Three pages in, but still no alternative suggestions for quickly reducing local air pollution.
Any other opportunities for NOx reduction beyond just cars? 
https://marketbusinessnews.com/nitrogen-dioxide-da...
sim72 said:
The thing is about the 60 limits - clearly they don't affect HGVs at all, so it's just cars.
So are cars really more than 15% less polluting at 60 than they are at 70?
(Because, of course, if following the speed limit they spend 15% more time in a 60 zone than they do a 70 one).
According to this graph from Emisia (spin-off company of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki / Laboratory of Applied Thermodynamics), it depends on whether you're talking about petrol or diesel. But driving at 110km/h (70mph) emits approximately 4% more NOx (petrol) and 6% more CO (diesel) than at 100km/h (62mph). So the difference between 60mph and 70mph would be slightly more significant:So are cars really more than 15% less polluting at 60 than they are at 70?
(Because, of course, if following the speed limit they spend 15% more time in a 60 zone than they do a 70 one).
Source: https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/transport/speed-l...
sim72 said:
The thing is about the 60 limits - clearly they don't affect HGVs at all, so it's just cars.
So are cars really more than 15% less polluting at 60 than they are at 70?
(Because, of course, if following the speed limit they spend 15% more time in a 60 zone than they do a 70 one).
Is this like when we switched from the cheapo free thin plastic bags to the 10p thick ones. Then someone did some calculations as realised because the 10p ones were so much thicker plastic consumption for plastic bag production went up significantly for the first few years?*So are cars really more than 15% less polluting at 60 than they are at 70?
(Because, of course, if following the speed limit they spend 15% more time in a 60 zone than they do a 70 one).
- It may now how levelled off or reduced.
LunarOne said:
sim72 said:
The thing is about the 60 limits - clearly they don't affect HGVs at all, so it's just cars.
So are cars really more than 15% less polluting at 60 than they are at 70?
(Because, of course, if following the speed limit they spend 15% more time in a 60 zone than they do a 70 one).
According to this graph from Emisia (spin-off company of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki / Laboratory of Applied Thermodynamics), it depends on whether you're talking about petrol or diesel. But driving at 110km/h (70mph) emits approximately 4% more NOx (petrol) and 6% more CO (diesel) than at 100km/h (62mph). So the difference between 60mph and 70mph would be slightly more significant:So are cars really more than 15% less polluting at 60 than they are at 70?
(Because, of course, if following the speed limit they spend 15% more time in a 60 zone than they do a 70 one).
Source: https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/transport/speed-l...
At 70mph (113kmh) the petrol is emitting 1.05 and the diesel around 1.08.
So the petrol is emittng around 7% more and the diesel around 10% more.
Given that around 40% of ICE cars are diesels, that means the lower speed limit produces around an 8.2% decrease in NOx/CO. But, of course, at 60mph the car is spending 15% more time in any given area than it is at 70mph...
bigothunter said:
Any other opportunities for NOx reduction beyond just cars?
https://marketbusinessnews.com/nitrogen-dioxide-da...
Yes there are. But it makes sense to concentrate on the biggest polluters first.https://marketbusinessnews.com/nitrogen-dioxide-da...
NMNeil said:
bigothunter said:
Any other opportunities for NOx reduction beyond just cars?
https://marketbusinessnews.com/nitrogen-dioxide-da...
Yes there are. But it makes sense to concentrate on the biggest polluters first.https://marketbusinessnews.com/nitrogen-dioxide-da...
As long as the science above doesn’t render it a massive f
k up.bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
But that doesn't mean you can denigrate other enthusiasts (& proclaim that they aren't enthusiasts) simply because they don't share your values & get their motoring pleasure in other ways.
If you do so they are less likely to support or be sympathetic to your plight, not more.
Likewise I expect those deriving pleasure in other ways, to be open to the needs of all motoring enthusiasts. Especially significant today when all enthusiasts (a very small minority of drivers) are under attack from so many quarters.If you do so they are less likely to support or be sympathetic to your plight, not more.
captain.scarlet said:
DaveE87 said:
marksx said:
The M621 has been 50 for as long as I can remember.
Which actually works pretty well for the amount of junctions in a short space of time. I just wish they'd increase it to 70 on the approach to the M1 as the 50 limit is largely ignored by many at that point anyway.
bigothunter said:
Likewise I expect those deriving pleasure in other ways, to be open to the needs of all motoring enthusiasts. Especially significant today when all enthusiasts (a very small minority of drivers) are under attack from so many quarters.
But us "enthusiasts" don't help ourselves, do we. "I don't want a front number plate as it spoils the look of my car" "I enjoy driving a car with a noisy exhaust" countless threads about how driving at over 100mph on UK roads is OK. Threads about removing catalysts from cars, I could go on.
Drumroll said:
But us "enthusiasts" don't help ourselves, do we. "I don't want a front number plate as it spoils the look of my car" "I enjoy driving a car with a noisy exhaust" countless threads about how driving at over 100mph on UK roads is OK. Threads about removing catalysts from cars, I could go on.
Yup I agree - fitting noisy exhausts and removing catalysts are utterly ridiculous actions. Many noisy road cars would not pass club racing / higher trackday limits, and the problem is getting worse 
oyster said:
I’m yet to be convinced that I can travel any quicker from A to B on a 70mph limit motorway than I can on a 60mph limited one, other than during very quiet times. And plainly, by their very emptiness, we don’t use motorways much at quiet times.
Other than a shallow, short-lived and ultimately futile feeling of progress getting to 70/80 on a busy motorway, it almost always ends up taking the same journey time.
I’ve sat in Lane 1/2 at 58/60 sometimes and watched how I get overtaken by a particularly memorable vehicle doing 70/80 in lane 4, only to then see it again 15 miles later as lane 3/4 snarls up.
Likewise when I’ve been that lane 4 driver passing a slowcoach in lane 1 and then seeing the fecker re-pass me sometime later when we get all nose to tail in lane 4.
I know which one gets me to my destination feeling less stressed.
On a busy motorway the above is definitely true; commuting I used to lift share with a colleague. I would sit in L1 and trundle along, as often as not sailing past all the stopped traffic in L2/3/4. My colleague would moan and moan and moan about me driving slow. Yet the traffic all around us was the same cars, vans and lorries that were around us when we joined the motorway. Other than a shallow, short-lived and ultimately futile feeling of progress getting to 70/80 on a busy motorway, it almost always ends up taking the same journey time.
I’ve sat in Lane 1/2 at 58/60 sometimes and watched how I get overtaken by a particularly memorable vehicle doing 70/80 in lane 4, only to then see it again 15 miles later as lane 3/4 snarls up.
Likewise when I’ve been that lane 4 driver passing a slowcoach in lane 1 and then seeing the fecker re-pass me sometime later when we get all nose to tail in lane 4.
I know which one gets me to my destination feeling less stressed.
On his days we would swing out to “the fast Lane”, be right on the tail of the car in front and the whole trip was a non-stop repeat of foot down hard acceleration or eyeball popping emergency stops - my foot would be doing that thing where I was constantly going for a brake pedal. Horrendous.
This 35 mile trip was no quicker his way. But it was bloody awful.
Dog Star said:
On a busy motorway the above is definitely true; commuting I used to lift share with a colleague. I would sit in L1 and trundle along, as often as not sailing past all the stopped traffic in L2/3/4. My colleague would moan and moan and moan about me driving slow. Yet the traffic all around us was the same cars, vans and lorries that were around us when we joined the motorway.
On his days we would swing out to “the fast Lane”, be right on the tail of the car in front and the whole trip was a non-stop repeat of foot down hard acceleration or eyeball popping emergency stops - my foot would be doing that thing where I was constantly going for a brake pedal. Horrendous.
This 35 mile trip was no quicker his way. But it was bloody awful.
With you 100% on that one Dog Star On his days we would swing out to “the fast Lane”, be right on the tail of the car in front and the whole trip was a non-stop repeat of foot down hard acceleration or eyeball popping emergency stops - my foot would be doing that thing where I was constantly going for a brake pedal. Horrendous.
This 35 mile trip was no quicker his way. But it was bloody awful.
Dog Star said:
oyster said:
I’m yet to be convinced that I can travel any quicker from A to B on a 70mph limit motorway than I can on a 60mph limited one, other than during very quiet times. And plainly, by their very emptiness, we don’t use motorways much at quiet times.
Other than a shallow, short-lived and ultimately futile feeling of progress getting to 70/80 on a busy motorway, it almost always ends up taking the same journey time.
I’ve sat in Lane 1/2 at 58/60 sometimes and watched how I get overtaken by a particularly memorable vehicle doing 70/80 in lane 4, only to then see it again 15 miles later as lane 3/4 snarls up.
Likewise when I’ve been that lane 4 driver passing a slowcoach in lane 1 and then seeing the fecker re-pass me sometime later when we get all nose to tail in lane 4.
I know which one gets me to my destination feeling less stressed.
On a busy motorway the above is definitely true; commuting I used to lift share with a colleague. I would sit in L1 and trundle along, as often as not sailing past all the stopped traffic in L2/3/4. My colleague would moan and moan and moan about me driving slow. Yet the traffic all around us was the same cars, vans and lorries that were around us when we joined the motorway. Other than a shallow, short-lived and ultimately futile feeling of progress getting to 70/80 on a busy motorway, it almost always ends up taking the same journey time.
I’ve sat in Lane 1/2 at 58/60 sometimes and watched how I get overtaken by a particularly memorable vehicle doing 70/80 in lane 4, only to then see it again 15 miles later as lane 3/4 snarls up.
Likewise when I’ve been that lane 4 driver passing a slowcoach in lane 1 and then seeing the fecker re-pass me sometime later when we get all nose to tail in lane 4.
I know which one gets me to my destination feeling less stressed.
On his days we would swing out to “the fast Lane”, be right on the tail of the car in front and the whole trip was a non-stop repeat of foot down hard acceleration or eyeball popping emergency stops - my foot would be doing that thing where I was constantly going for a brake pedal. Horrendous.
This 35 mile trip was no quicker his way. But it was bloody awful.
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