Police BMW engine issues
Discussion
P0PC0RN said:
dhutch said:
Why can't an EV be used for TPAC?
- higher initial purchase price?
- less experienced in risks/repair involved?
- have alterative cars to use instead
The range/recharge will continue to be an issue given the duty cycle, but otherwise I can see an EV working well.
They are a pain when badly damaged and often just refuse to move when even slightly damaged. The fire brigade hate them due to their ability to start burning and just keep burning.- higher initial purchase price?
- less experienced in risks/repair involved?
- have alterative cars to use instead
The range/recharge will continue to be an issue given the duty cycle, but otherwise I can see an EV working well.
aeropilot said:
And that brings up another 'what's going to happen' scenario..........can't see the Fire Brigade making the transition anytime soon to EV.....not with the weight of a full tender of water to carry quickly......although, in cities at least they are not travelling far from fire station where they would be sitting plugged in, as long as they don't have go on another shout just after getting back from one. But given the load reductions and performance trade off for vans, how viable would a EV fire engine be?
Over here in the US, Rosenbauer make an electric fire truck (with a range extender) that Los Angeles Fire Department use - link here: https://rosenbaueramerica.com/rosenbauer-revolutio....My agency here in CO was involved in testing some EV patrol cars. There's a long way to go before they will be ready for what we do.
dmsims said:
So when the issues became known why not switch to 340i/540i ?
The 540i failed the 'Met test', sprung a gearbox oil temp warning light during testing iirc which means it couldn't go on the RPU list of approved cars. I owned one at the time in tourer version and it would have out performed any of our diesel force 5 series we had at the time. Tried to buy one, nope failed the test?The MET test is something that has traditionally been there but no one really knows why it is the official test for police vehicles. IMO each force can have a different requirement of their vehicles so should be allowed to buy whatever is appropriate to them. Ridiculous system.
We do have 340i on the driving school, they're small and can be a bit cramped if you have 4 persons in them for a course, but they do go very well indeed.
PurpleTurtle said:
Volvo has today announced that they are going SUV only in the UK, which will limit choices even further
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volvo-...
Well that's lame!https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volvo-...
nordboy said:
The MET test is something that has traditionally been there but no one really knows why it is the official test for police vehicles. IMO each force can have a different requirement of their vehicles so should be allowed to buy whatever is appropriate to them. Ridiculous system.
We do have 340i on the driving school, they're small and can be a bit cramped if you have 4 persons in them for a course, but they do go very well indeed.
The infamous Met test..... The 540i has the same gearbox that is fitted to every other BMW auto car. We do have 340i on the driving school, they're small and can be a bit cramped if you have 4 persons in them for a course, but they do go very well indeed.
They should have just retested another car - it's a punishing test and sometimes cars have defects. If all the others passed except the 540i which failed based upon a item shared between all the BMW's tested they should have either failed the lot or just retested another 540i
The V60 failed the Met test yet many forces have those!
JakeT said:
Fleet managers and bean counters would have a fit at moving back to S60 T5 levels of consumption too. 
The current Volvo V60/V60CC/V90 options are as thirsty as any S60 T5 from the mid 2000's. Perhaps even more so. They burn through fuel like they've got a hole in the tank. The fuel costs alone for running a petrol Volvo day to day rather than a diesel 330d are considerably higher. Don Roque said:
JakeT said:
Fleet managers and bean counters would have a fit at moving back to S60 T5 levels of consumption too.
The current Volvo V60/V60CC/V90 options are as thirsty as any S60 T5 from the mid 2000's. Perhaps even more so. They burn through fuel like they've got a hole in the tank. The fuel costs alone for running a petrol Volvo day to day rather than a diesel 330d are considerably higher. The bean counters decided that as the Vectra 2.8 V6t was £1000 less than a 330/530 that was what they we were getting
They did allow a small number of BMW’s for comparison
The BMW’s went on to do over 200k miles and were averaging about 30mpg running on the cheap bulk bought bio diesel being used
When defleeted they achieved good bids, in the £1000’s at auction
The Vectra’s, well, they were totally shagged with 100k on them, averaged around 12mpg and at auction they got about £500 for them! Most had gone with less than 120k on them, dont think any of them got anywhere near 200k
Real false economy
though don’t get me wrong, when the Vectra’s worked they were bloody quick cars but they weren’t very reliable
The BMW’s just kept on going though
P0PC0RN said:
nordboy said:
The MET test is something that has traditionally been there but no one really knows why it is the official test for police vehicles. IMO each force can have a different requirement of their vehicles so should be allowed to buy whatever is appropriate to them. Ridiculous system.
We do have 340i on the driving school, they're small and can be a bit cramped if you have 4 persons in them for a course, but they do go very well indeed.
The infamous Met test..... The 540i has the same gearbox that is fitted to every other BMW auto car. We do have 340i on the driving school, they're small and can be a bit cramped if you have 4 persons in them for a course, but they do go very well indeed.
They should have just retested another car - it's a punishing test and sometimes cars have defects. If all the others passed except the 540i which failed based upon a item shared between all the BMW's tested they should have either failed the lot or just retested another 540i
The V60 failed the Met test yet many forces have those!
P0PC0RN said:
nordboy said:
The MET test is something that has traditionally been there but no one really knows why it is the official test for police vehicles. IMO each force can have a different requirement of their vehicles so should be allowed to buy whatever is appropriate to them. Ridiculous system.
We do have 340i on the driving school, they're small and can be a bit cramped if you have 4 persons in them for a course, but they do go very well indeed.
The infamous Met test..... The 540i has the same gearbox that is fitted to every other BMW auto car. We do have 340i on the driving school, they're small and can be a bit cramped if you have 4 persons in them for a course, but they do go very well indeed.
They should have just retested another car - it's a punishing test and sometimes cars have defects. If all the others passed except the 540i which failed based upon a item shared between all the BMW's tested they should have either failed the lot or just retested another 540i
The V60 failed the Met test yet many forces have those!
On the subject of beancounters and the “Met test”
A large batch of Hyundai cars were ordered, around 150 or so where the “tested and approved” car was a 1.6 diesel version
The beancounters looked and saw that the 1.4 diesel version could be bought for £400 less than the 1.6 and so the order was changed to 1.4’s
The first batch of 30 or so cars went direct to the contractor for fitting out and then arrived fully liveried and ready to go
Except .. they needed to be tested … and they failed the “Met test”
It seems that the £400 saving was because the 1.4 did without the bigger brakes and larger alloy wheels of the 1.6 substituting them for smaller brakes and steel wheels
The 1.4’s had to be retrofitted with the alloy wheels and brake system from the 1.6’s before they could enter service
The cost of retrofitting borne by the force was considerably more than the £400 saving!
Here's a pretty good example of why you would probably not want to use BEVs for TPAC and risk damaging the battery packs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKBM7LC5hhM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKBM7LC5hhM
Earthdweller said:
Back in the 2000’s when we were running fleet of Vauxhall’s/Volvo T5’s all of which could be provoked into sub 10mpg fuel economy we wanted to move to BMW 330/530d’s
The bean counters decided that as the Vectra 2.8 V6t was £1000 less than a 330/530 that was what they we were getting
They did allow a small number of BMW’s for comparison
The BMW’s went on to do over 200k miles and were averaging about 30mpg running on the cheap bulk bought bio diesel being used
When defleeted they achieved good bids, in the £1000’s at auction
The Vectra’s, well, they were totally shagged with 100k on them, averaged around 12mpg and at auction they got about £500 for them! Most had gone with less than 120k on them, dont think any of them got anywhere near 200k
Real false economy
That's so typical of bean counters though the world over........totally fixated on initial bottom line, with no concept of value for money, or through life costs.The bean counters decided that as the Vectra 2.8 V6t was £1000 less than a 330/530 that was what they we were getting
They did allow a small number of BMW’s for comparison
The BMW’s went on to do over 200k miles and were averaging about 30mpg running on the cheap bulk bought bio diesel being used
When defleeted they achieved good bids, in the £1000’s at auction
The Vectra’s, well, they were totally shagged with 100k on them, averaged around 12mpg and at auction they got about £500 for them! Most had gone with less than 120k on them, dont think any of them got anywhere near 200k
Real false economy
I see it all the time, but, they still get their way, or get promoted.
pills said:
What's the Met test?
For a serious answer rather than humorous ones It’s basically accelerate/brake and continuously repeat until you’ve fried the brakes
It stems iirc from the typical city usage of hard acceleration/heavy braking between traffic lights where brake fade is a big factor
Earthdweller said:
My old farce has 540’s so perhaps they were retested
On the subject of beancounters and the “Met test”
A large batch of Hyundai cars were ordered, around 150 or so where the “tested and approved” car was a 1.6 diesel version
The beancounters looked and saw that the 1.4 diesel version could be bought for £400 less than the 1.6 and so the order was changed to 1.4’s
The first batch of 30 or so cars went direct to the contractor for fitting out and then arrived fully liveried and ready to go
Except .. they needed to be tested … and they failed the “Met test”
It seems that the £400 saving was because the 1.4 did without the bigger brakes and larger alloy wheels of the 1.6 substituting them for smaller brakes and steel wheels
The 1.4’s had to be retrofitted with the alloy wheels and brake system from the 1.6’s before they could enter service
The cost of retrofitting borne by the force was considerably more than the £400 saving!
I know from a cop mate that Northumbria did similar with Astra's. Ordered the 1.3dti to save some cash instead of the 1.7dti. Allegedly wouldn't pull the skin off a custard. Weirdly they are still running them and a load of Corsa's at 10/11 year oldOn the subject of beancounters and the “Met test”
A large batch of Hyundai cars were ordered, around 150 or so where the “tested and approved” car was a 1.6 diesel version
The beancounters looked and saw that the 1.4 diesel version could be bought for £400 less than the 1.6 and so the order was changed to 1.4’s
The first batch of 30 or so cars went direct to the contractor for fitting out and then arrived fully liveried and ready to go
Except .. they needed to be tested … and they failed the “Met test”
It seems that the £400 saving was because the 1.4 did without the bigger brakes and larger alloy wheels of the 1.6 substituting them for smaller brakes and steel wheels
The 1.4’s had to be retrofitted with the alloy wheels and brake system from the 1.6’s before they could enter service
The cost of retrofitting borne by the force was considerably more than the £400 saving!
Earthdweller said:
pills said:
What's the Met test?
For a serious answer rather than humorous ones It’s basically accelerate/brake and continuously repeat until you’ve fried the brakes
It stems iirc from the typical city usage of hard acceleration/heavy braking between traffic lights where brake fade is a big factor
Earthdweller said:
Don Roque said:
JakeT said:
Fleet managers and bean counters would have a fit at moving back to S60 T5 levels of consumption too.
The current Volvo V60/V60CC/V90 options are as thirsty as any S60 T5 from the mid 2000's. Perhaps even more so. They burn through fuel like they've got a hole in the tank. The fuel costs alone for running a petrol Volvo day to day rather than a diesel 330d are considerably higher. The bean counters decided that as the Vectra 2.8 V6t was £1000 less than a 330/530 that was what they we were getting
They did allow a small number of BMW’s for comparison
The BMW’s went on to do over 200k miles and were averaging about 30mpg running on the cheap bulk bought bio diesel being used
When defleeted they achieved good bids, in the £1000’s at auction
The Vectra’s, well, they were totally shagged with 100k on them, averaged around 12mpg and at auction they got about £500 for them! Most had gone with less than 120k on them, dont think any of them got anywhere near 200k
Real false economy
though don’t get me wrong, when the Vectra’s worked they were bloody quick cars but they weren’t very reliable
The BMW’s just kept on going though
As an owner of a 200k BMW 330i, and former owner of a 230k 530d I agree on the longevity. While I definitely don’t do usage like the police, the 330i is all there still, and will run into the limiter happily when on the continent.
It’s a shame BMW binned off police versions and sales. I have a feeling from reading here they’ll be back at some point. Over 20 years of dominance in the market does suggest there’s few alternatives that meet the requirements of modern policing.
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