Police BMW engine issues
Discussion
aeropilot said:
Earthdweller said:
pills said:
What's the Met test?
For a serious answer rather than humorous ones It’s basically accelerate/brake and continuously repeat until you’ve fried the brakes
It stems iirc from the typical city usage of hard acceleration/heavy braking between traffic lights where brake fade is a big factor
Earthdweller said:
Back in the 2000’s when we were running fleet of Vauxhall’s/Volvo T5’s all of which could be provoked into sub 10mpg fuel economy we wanted to move to BMW 330/530d’s
The bean counters decided that as the Vectra 2.8 V6t was £1000 less than a 330/530 that was what they we were getting
They did allow a small number of BMW’s for comparison
The BMW’s went on to do over 200k miles and were averaging about 30mpg running on the cheap bulk bought bio diesel being used
When defleeted they achieved good bids, in the £1000’s at auction
The Vectra’s, well, they were totally shagged with 100k on them, averaged around 12mpg and at auction they got about £500 for them! Most had gone with less than 120k on them, dont think any of them got anywhere near 200k
Real false economy
though don’t get me wrong, when the Vectra’s worked they were bloody quick cars but they weren’t very reliable
The BMW’s just kept on going though
"Lessons must be learned" - no doubt said 30 years ago with exactly the same procurement issues.The bean counters decided that as the Vectra 2.8 V6t was £1000 less than a 330/530 that was what they we were getting
They did allow a small number of BMW’s for comparison
The BMW’s went on to do over 200k miles and were averaging about 30mpg running on the cheap bulk bought bio diesel being used
When defleeted they achieved good bids, in the £1000’s at auction
The Vectra’s, well, they were totally shagged with 100k on them, averaged around 12mpg and at auction they got about £500 for them! Most had gone with less than 120k on them, dont think any of them got anywhere near 200k
Real false economy
though don’t get me wrong, when the Vectra’s worked they were bloody quick cars but they weren’t very reliable
The BMW’s just kept on going though
Earthdweller said:
Had the same issue with the 827’s and the early Volvo T5’s which the Met only deemed suitable for motorway and VIP work and not divisional work
Yeah, early T5s came with 280s on the front. Luckily the change to 302s was only a cheap enough bracket. (Which i'm sure a bean counters moaned about 
)Edited by Stedman on Wednesday 2nd August 13:55
aeropilot said:
Earthdweller said:
pills said:
What's the Met test?
For a serious answer rather than humorous ones It’s basically accelerate/brake and continuously repeat until you’ve fried the brakes
It stems iirc from the typical city usage of hard acceleration/heavy braking between traffic lights where brake fade is a big factor
Back to the comment that Met use is not necessarily typical for other forces.
Though brakes can be an issue generally. Back in WYP during a period of austerity the budget wouldn't cover the normal spec traffic cars, eg Granadas, so boggers 2.0 Cavaliers were ordered. They had to be upgraded with brakes from the SRi 130.
Regarding the 2600 SD1, LJKS did a piece in CAR Magazine about how that IL6 could have been more powerful but they'd deliberately restricted the breathing so the 2600 didn't stand on the toes of the V8 in the marketing hierarchy.
A pokier, more economical 2600 IL6 in the SD1 may have met police requirements.
A pokier, more economical 2600 IL6 in the SD1 may have met police requirements.
P0PC0RN said:
They are a pain when badly damaged and often just refuse to move when even slightly damaged. The fire brigade hate them due to their ability to start burning and just keep burning.
Cars used to TPAC need to be able to soak up the damage and keep on going - that car might need to take multiple impacts and then still be in a state to stay with and prevent the scrote going contraflow (as is the done thing now).
I go to low speed bumps involving EV's regularly and they end up being dragged onto a flat bed because computer says no...
The biggest issue is the range and inability to quickly recharge in the middle of no-where. We often stop for fuel mid shout or on the odd occasions mid follow/ pursuit.
Im sure there is a future in EV's for RPU use, I just don't think we are ready yet....
.. and the number of EV write offs after collisions is significantly higher due to the risk of undetectable battery damage resulting from the collision. Basically insurers are more reluctant to sign off that the battery is still safe. A replacement battery costs more than the vehicle is worth hence the write off. Cars used to TPAC need to be able to soak up the damage and keep on going - that car might need to take multiple impacts and then still be in a state to stay with and prevent the scrote going contraflow (as is the done thing now).
I go to low speed bumps involving EV's regularly and they end up being dragged onto a flat bed because computer says no...
The biggest issue is the range and inability to quickly recharge in the middle of no-where. We often stop for fuel mid shout or on the odd occasions mid follow/ pursuit.
Im sure there is a future in EV's for RPU use, I just don't think we are ready yet....
FiF said:
I went to uni with the engineer for the Met who had to sort that out. He had a 2600 with all sorts of brake mods and gauges recording pressures in the various circuits.
Back to the comment that Met use is not necessarily typical for other forces.
Though brakes can be an issue generally. Back in WYP during a period of austerity the budget wouldn't cover the normal spec traffic cars, eg Granadas, so boggers 2.0 Cavaliers were ordered. They had to be upgraded with brakes from the SRi 130.
Going back even further in a period of "austerity" WYP had 1600 Cavaliers as divisional traffic cars !Back to the comment that Met use is not necessarily typical for other forces.
Though brakes can be an issue generally. Back in WYP during a period of austerity the budget wouldn't cover the normal spec traffic cars, eg Granadas, so boggers 2.0 Cavaliers were ordered. They had to be upgraded with brakes from the SRi 130.
For years we had Transits as PSU carriers, finally they got changed to SWB Sprinters and then vehicle fleet decided the Sprinters were costing too much and gave us an Iveco to evaluate. It was awful, the build quality was shocking, bits of trim fell off in our hands the door seams were rusting (3 month old vehicle) it handled like a drunken Walrus and the rear step was far too high to get prisoners in the rear cage were some of the issues.
I wrote a damning evaluation report and then received a phone call "you were supposed to write that we are getting them as they are cheaper than the Sprinters and more reliable" the whole fleet was changed to Ivecos
Guess what, very unreliable. forever throwing Engine warning lights and build quality was appalling.
And the Ivecos were all eventually replaced by....... Sprinters !
Not helped by two things
1) The Police budget for the new financial year starting in April was not finalised until January the same year so with only 3 months notice of how much you had to spend in the next financial year it was impossible to plan very far ahead
and
2) and an obsession by the bean counters that best value meant cheapest, so buying wicking shirts that cost 70p each and maybe lasted 6 months rather than buying £2 shirts that might last 2 years for example
FiF said:
Talking of austerity, can recall one winter in SYP where a mileage limit of 14 miles per shift on beat cars was imposed.
1983/4 Huddersfield A division (town centre and surrounding area) it was from memory 4 miles per shift"Apparently" speedo cables regularly "fell off" and "rumours" of lots of reversing !
Then someone twigged that the MPG had dropped significantly !
edthefed said:
FiF said:
Talking of austerity, can recall one winter in SYP where a mileage limit of 14 miles per shift on beat cars was imposed.
1983/4 Huddersfield A division (town centre and surrounding area) it was from memory 4 miles per shift"Apparently" speedo cables regularly "fell off" and "rumours" of lots of reversing !
Then someone twigged that the MPG had dropped significantly !
Same in the Met where we had a 20 mile per shift allowance
But they took away all the cars/vans and left one panda at each station and one van divisionally
That changed when two PC’s at an outlying station went to a disturbance in the only car and called for urgent assistance and no one could go .. PC’s attended in their own cars and by the time they got their one of the PC’s was unconscious.. both were hospitalised and the most seriously hurt one was subsequently ill health retired due to his injuries
The next day .. all the vehicles were brought back to the stations
We had a “mail run” that had to be done each early turn collecting all the internal mail from the sub stns and taking it to the div station and distributing the incoming mail on the way back to all the outlying stations
The distance to the main station was about 16 miles .. so the mail would be dropped off and the new mail collected then the panda parked up 4 miles back into the return journey and the Pc would use the tube/bus to get back to their parading station where the late turn shift would be told where the car was parked
The late turn would then spend half the shift collecting the car and then once back at the parading station would only have about 8 miles left for the shift!
The same applied to the area car and one night I was driving it and got an urgent call to attend an address from east London in deepest Essex btwn Chelmsford and Colchester on blue lights to collect a force sniper which was a fairly regular occurrence back then
He was then conveyed to NSY and then onto an RVP in Croydon .. all on blues/twos
The s
t it caused and the explaining I had to do to justify the 200 plus miles I’d done was unreal It was a mad period for sure
edthefed said:
FiF said:
Talking of austerity, can recall one winter in SYP where a mileage limit of 14 miles per shift on beat cars was imposed.
1983/4 Huddersfield A division (town centre and surrounding area) it was from memory 4 miles per shift"Apparently" speedo cables regularly "fell off" and "rumours" of lots of reversing !
Then someone twigged that the MPG had dropped significantly !
Hellfire, one call from Castlegate up to, say, Almondbury and you're done.
FiF said:
Anyway, sort of back on topic, following on from Volvo stopping selling estates in UK, apparently they will still supply to UK emergency services but not civilians.
One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
Its not unusual - Skoda are only supplying RHD Octavia Scouts to Ambulance Services. Surely its a negligable cost to allow the public to also order.One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
SteBrown91 said:
FiF said:
Anyway, sort of back on topic, following on from Volvo stopping selling estates in UK, apparently they will still supply to UK emergency services but not civilians.
One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
Its not unusual - Skoda are only supplying RHD Octavia Scouts to Ambulance Services. Surely its a negligable cost to allow the public to also order.One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
They don’t have to worry about colours or multiple trim levels and options
Earthdweller said:
SteBrown91 said:
FiF said:
Anyway, sort of back on topic, following on from Volvo stopping selling estates in UK, apparently they will still supply to UK emergency services but not civilians.
One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
Its not unusual - Skoda are only supplying RHD Octavia Scouts to Ambulance Services. Surely its a negligable cost to allow the public to also order.One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
They don’t have to worry about colours or multiple trim levels and options
SteBrown91 said:
FiF said:
Anyway, sort of back on topic, following on from Volvo stopping selling estates in UK, apparently they will still supply to UK emergency services but not civilians.
One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
Its not unusual - Skoda are only supplying RHD Octavia Scouts to Ambulance Services. Surely its a negligable cost to allow the public to also order.One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
aeropilot said:
Earthdweller said:
SteBrown91 said:
FiF said:
Anyway, sort of back on topic, following on from Volvo stopping selling estates in UK, apparently they will still supply to UK emergency services but not civilians.
One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
Its not unusual - Skoda are only supplying RHD Octavia Scouts to Ambulance Services. Surely its a negligable cost to allow the public to also order.One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
They don’t have to worry about colours or multiple trim levels and options
FiF said:
aeropilot said:
Earthdweller said:
SteBrown91 said:
FiF said:
Anyway, sort of back on topic, following on from Volvo stopping selling estates in UK, apparently they will still supply to UK emergency services but not civilians.
One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
Its not unusual - Skoda are only supplying RHD Octavia Scouts to Ambulance Services. Surely its a negligable cost to allow the public to also order.One wonders if they have thought this through properly.
They don’t have to worry about colours or multiple trim levels and options
Interesting (for total car nerds) noticing how the changes in the traffic/rrv vehicles are going.
I'm in the southeast and regularly around the motorways, noticed kent have now got a Toureg, also seen a marked up Tesla on blues but looked like a training car rather then responding.
I have also seen a couple of times now between M25 Junction 5-9 a liveried Mercedes C-class which I am sure was on a 68 plate!! Parked up on sliproad exits so was operational. Old stock being put to use due to lack of new stock in?
It did look rather nice, can't recall ever seeing MB being used outside of Germany!
I'm in the southeast and regularly around the motorways, noticed kent have now got a Toureg, also seen a marked up Tesla on blues but looked like a training car rather then responding.
I have also seen a couple of times now between M25 Junction 5-9 a liveried Mercedes C-class which I am sure was on a 68 plate!! Parked up on sliproad exits so was operational. Old stock being put to use due to lack of new stock in?
It did look rather nice, can't recall ever seeing MB being used outside of Germany!
Edited by iDave on Friday 4th August 18:29
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