B+E being scrapped?
Discussion
R0G said:
I recommend scrapping the B+E test and replacing it with training and a competency certificate issued by the training instructor similar to the M/C CBT
I think thats a very sensible suggestion. There definitely needs to be an element of training but the current licence is a bit over the top and too expensive It would certainly be handy for me if they scrapped the B+E test as currently I can’t tow one of our trailers behind my transit as it’s 150kg over the 3500kg limit on my B license but I’m fine with the other trailer, The trailers are both the same model but one has a roof and the other is open.
donkmeister said:
It's crazy that there's an arbitrary date where if you passed your test before you can drive 7.5t and tow big trailers with 3.5t, but after you can't. They even made the test more difficult at the same time, so if you passed in 1997 you had a harder test and got less for passing than if you did it in 1996.
My thoughts exactly. I've been having this conversation with my dad as I found I would be overweight towing with an X5 (that I was looking to buy). Rather annoying, but I'd rather pick a different car than spend hundreds on training to pass a test.Quite pleased to see that there's at least a chance it will be scrapped. Although will this be permanent, or revert back when this is all over?
R0G said:
I recommend scrapping the B+E test and replacing it with training and a competency certificate issued by the training instructor similar to the M/C CBT
I'd agree with this.Scrapping the test/training all together will;
A. Potentially put people out of business who are purely B+E driving instructors and;
B. Probably fill the roads full of idiots pulling caravans/trailers that are too heavy/badly loaded with a car not designed to tow heavy whilst simultaneously doing 70+ in the outside lane.
So if they were to scrap the actual test, then I agree that they should replace it with an updated training that requires a minimum number of driving hours for which a certificate of competence is then given by the B+E driving instructor.
I do feel the same about their being some kind of leisure driving entitlement enabling people to drive larger motorhomes. Having to take what is essentially a full HGV test to drive a 4 tonne motorhome seems a bit mad to me. A friend had to do it after he took a years sabbatical and travelled around Europe with his family. He said that the theory test was all geared up to driving a 7.5 tonne HGV, but he had to study and pass it anyway.
As someone who had to take the B+E test last year, I agree with other posters that they're more focussed on your ability to drive how you were taught when you passed your test rather than your ability to actually tow safely.
OFORBES said:
I'd agree with this.
Scrapping the test/training all together will;
A. Potentially put people out of business who are purely B+E driving instructors and;
B. Probably fill the roads full of idiots pulling caravans/trailers that are too heavy/badly loaded with a car not designed to tow heavy whilst simultaneously doing 70+ in the outside lane.
So if they were to scrap the actual test, then I agree that they should replace it with an updated training that requires a minimum number of driving hours for which a certificate of competence is then given by the B+E driving instructor.
I do feel the same about their being some kind of leisure driving entitlement enabling people to drive larger motorhomes. Having to take what is essentially a full HGV test to drive a 4 tonne motorhome seems a bit mad to me. A friend had to do it after he took a years sabbatical and travelled around Europe with his family. He said that the theory test was all geared up to driving a 7.5 tonne HGV, but he had to study and pass it anyway.
As someone who had to take the B+E test last year, I agree with other posters that they're more focussed on your ability to drive how you were taught when you passed your test rather than your ability to actually tow safely.
Agreed, I did my B+E this year and it was more geared around driving the car to test standard than anything to do with towing. I learned more about towing from youtube/forums etc than I did from itScrapping the test/training all together will;
A. Potentially put people out of business who are purely B+E driving instructors and;
B. Probably fill the roads full of idiots pulling caravans/trailers that are too heavy/badly loaded with a car not designed to tow heavy whilst simultaneously doing 70+ in the outside lane.
So if they were to scrap the actual test, then I agree that they should replace it with an updated training that requires a minimum number of driving hours for which a certificate of competence is then given by the B+E driving instructor.
I do feel the same about their being some kind of leisure driving entitlement enabling people to drive larger motorhomes. Having to take what is essentially a full HGV test to drive a 4 tonne motorhome seems a bit mad to me. A friend had to do it after he took a years sabbatical and travelled around Europe with his family. He said that the theory test was all geared up to driving a 7.5 tonne HGV, but he had to study and pass it anyway.
As someone who had to take the B+E test last year, I agree with other posters that they're more focussed on your ability to drive how you were taught when you passed your test rather than your ability to actually tow safely.
"Driving to what you were taught" is a good phrase, my instructor seemed to feel that somehow magically driving "3rd for 30, 4th for 40" was something everyone should know and not to engine break. That's not what I was taught and def not how I drive, passed my test 2002 and my instructor was an old boy, he taught engine breaking and changing up as soon as feasible, same as my dad also taught me when he took me out.
What also irk's me is say you have a full manual license but do b+e test in an auto you are only entitled to b+e in auto - I just find that really bizarre
Captain Answer said:
What also irk's me is say you have a full manual license but do b+e test in an auto you are only entitled to b+e in auto - I just find that really bizarre
I believe that's changing in the next year or two, so that passing b+e in an auto will allow you to tow with a manual, as it is with HGVs (which are mostly auto now). Of course if b+e goes away, that'll be irrelevant. B+E test is a waste of time. The only useful bit is the car-park/reversing bit, which takes 10 minutes. The 1.5 hours of driving around adds nothing at all.
I would like to see it disappear as well (biased 35 year old here!).
What is slightly odd with the current regulations is that to avoid doing the B+E test, you end up looking for odd towing combinations to remain legal with your B entitlement. I.E "low" MAM vehicles with high towing weights.
EG. Mondeo estates, probably around 1700kg weight, 1850kg towing weight and 2100 MAM.
Assuming you don't want to pass an additional test (and who does like to do a test, unless they absolutely have to), it would be legal to tow a 1400 MAM trailer with that Mondeo. Yet, the reality is, you would probably be a fair bit safer with a discovery / defender et al.
The current regulation seems to promote odd choices that aren't necessarily as safe, remembering that my mother could happily tow many combinations due to grandfather rights. She would be the first to admit she wouldn't be as safe as me (not saying I am exemplary!)
As with most Towing based opinion ROG has probably got it spot on. Get some trailer instruction so you don't kill businesses overnight, but ensure that it isn't time limited like the CBT is*.
CBT has to be retaken after 2 years, WHY! I surely didn't forget everything at the 2 year point, and with experience I 'should' have got better. And I am happy pottering about on a 125.
What is slightly odd with the current regulations is that to avoid doing the B+E test, you end up looking for odd towing combinations to remain legal with your B entitlement. I.E "low" MAM vehicles with high towing weights.
EG. Mondeo estates, probably around 1700kg weight, 1850kg towing weight and 2100 MAM.
Assuming you don't want to pass an additional test (and who does like to do a test, unless they absolutely have to), it would be legal to tow a 1400 MAM trailer with that Mondeo. Yet, the reality is, you would probably be a fair bit safer with a discovery / defender et al.
The current regulation seems to promote odd choices that aren't necessarily as safe, remembering that my mother could happily tow many combinations due to grandfather rights. She would be the first to admit she wouldn't be as safe as me (not saying I am exemplary!)
As with most Towing based opinion ROG has probably got it spot on. Get some trailer instruction so you don't kill businesses overnight, but ensure that it isn't time limited like the CBT is*.
CBT has to be retaken after 2 years, WHY! I surely didn't forget everything at the 2 year point, and with experience I 'should' have got better. And I am happy pottering about on a 125.
Captain Answer said:
Agreed, I did my B+E this year and it was more geared around driving the car to test standard than anything to do with towing. I learned more about towing from youtube/forums etc than I did from it
"Driving to what you were taught" is a good phrase, my instructor seemed to feel that somehow magically driving "3rd for 30, 4th for 40" was something everyone should know and not to engine break. That's not what I was taught and def not how I drive, passed my test 2002 and my instructor was an old boy, he taught engine breaking and changing up as soon as feasible, same as my dad also taught me when he took me out.
What also irk's me is say you have a full manual license but do b+e test in an auto you are only entitled to b+e in auto - I just find that really bizarre
Not breaking the engine is really good advice…"Driving to what you were taught" is a good phrase, my instructor seemed to feel that somehow magically driving "3rd for 30, 4th for 40" was something everyone should know and not to engine break. That's not what I was taught and def not how I drive, passed my test 2002 and my instructor was an old boy, he taught engine breaking and changing up as soon as feasible, same as my dad also taught me when he took me out.
What also irk's me is say you have a full manual license but do b+e test in an auto you are only entitled to b+e in auto - I just find that really bizarre
OFORBES said:
I'd agree with this.
Scrapping the test/training all together will;
...B. Probably fill the roads full of idiots pulling caravans/trailers that are too heavy/badly loaded with a car not designed to tow heavy whilst simultaneously doing 70+ in the outside lane....
The roads are already full of idiots doing exactly that. Presumably those who fell on the right side of the already mentioned arbitrary date.Scrapping the test/training all together will;
...B. Probably fill the roads full of idiots pulling caravans/trailers that are too heavy/badly loaded with a car not designed to tow heavy whilst simultaneously doing 70+ in the outside lane....
This is great news. I've been through the response online, and it asks if you agree that the B+E should be scrapped. It then goes on to ask why you disagree (if you do). This way of wording suggests to me that scrapping B+E is the gov's preferred action.
Like a few who have posted, I missed grandfather rights by 6 months. Always seemed crazy that my 90 year old neighbour could tow 3.5 tonnes behind a luton van but I'm limited to 750kg (or some weird small car big trailer combo).
(Off to look at track cars and trailers now....)
Like a few who have posted, I missed grandfather rights by 6 months. Always seemed crazy that my 90 year old neighbour could tow 3.5 tonnes behind a luton van but I'm limited to 750kg (or some weird small car big trailer combo).
(Off to look at track cars and trailers now....)
Olivera said:
If training is required then why are many exempt based on nothing more than an arbitrary licence date?
Because that was how it used to be i guess. Then someone decided some training would be a good idea, which I agree with, and changed it. I will never know why old people can tow trailers and drive 7.5 ton trucks without training, it doesn't make any sense to meHelterSkelter said:
The roads are already full of idiots doing exactly that. Presumably those who fell on the right side of the already mentioned arbitrary date.
I've always wondered how many people actually follow the current rules? I often see younger people driving transits towing big trailers ("Billy's Landscape Gardening" etc) and wonder if the drivers know or care about the rules.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff