Birmingham ULEZ - Anyone waiting on appeal?
Discussion
eldrich said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well to be fair it isn't very clear - it says online but no address is given, it says charges apply - but no idea of what the charges are. It also doesn't indicate if you have to pay before you arrive, when you arrive or when you leave because all that is probably online but for someone such as me that would be hopeless because how would I be able to find an internet cafe to find out what is happening?These things work well for people who live there but for people who visit and don't know the local rules they are awful.
I went to Portsmouth over the holidays. Saw simaler signs, couldnt pull over to google what it ment and how much i was going to be fleaced or to re-route GPS to get around them. Or find out the area they coverd. So was "forced" in to the zone.
Got to my destination and looked it up. Relieved to find that its only for commershal vechels.
Its still a complete and utter joke. I have relatives that dont have smart phones or internet, what are they suposed to do?
speedyguy said:
Given all the mayhem about to be unleashed in Manchester with the biggest CAZ (Catch All Zone) in the whole of Europe.
Just looked up the map of this and wow, it's huge. They have got it through by (initially?) excluding Private cars, mopeds and motorbikes and £120m in assistance funding to help those non-compliant people to upgrade their vehicles.Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 4th January 11:46
Similar issue with the Congestion Zones. They use the same 'C' in a red circle, but they are run by different authorities with different rules and payments. Prime example is the London C zone and the Dartford bridge C zone. Registration for one does not cover the other, I nearly got caught out by this.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I suppose it says D on it rather than A, B or C.Given as they are not lit i can see the retroreflectivity breaking down in time especially those near trees or in shade and you can guarantee they won't be updated when life expired do really easy to read in the dark especially in unfamiliar areas
normalbloke said:
FiF said:
Sorry, must be thick, what's the significance of the D, C etc?
No, you’re not thick, just lazy and haven’t read the thread…
it's just the denominator of how many vehicle types they're going to kick the arse/pocket out of 
Pic for ease/snapshot
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air...
normalbloke said:
FiF said:
Sorry, must be thick, what's the significance of the D, C etc?
No, you’re not thick, just lazy and haven’t read the thread…So in essence if you encounter a zone you have to look up on the we8b to see if you're affected. Not that I will be going anywhere near Birmingham centre these days. "Should be surrounded by ropes and red lamps, plus signs saying Danger Hole in the World" (copyright Mike Harding)
Vanity Projects said:
rampageturke said:
get in the 21st century? You can pay London/Brum ULEZ by phone anyway, unless your hypothetical relatives don't have that either?
Would that be the phone number on the sign?Double size signs similar to others.
They like to do things 'differently' over there
speedyguy said:
it's just the denominator of how many vehicle types they're going to kick the arse/pocket out of Pic for ease/snapshot
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air...
lard said:
speedyguy said:
it's just the denominator of how many vehicle types they're going to kick the arse/pocket out of Pic for ease/snapshot
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air...
Maybe motorbikes are in the 'too difficult to deal with box' presently in the CAZ areas with the tech.
I've got a ticket from Birmingham for driving through their clean air zone in this car. I assumed it was exempt because it is exempt from the ULEZ in London. So I did notice the signs but thought ignore as I can drive in London so I can drive here. But they have still sent me a fine. What's worse is I have been away and just saw the letter so I'm already into the 120 pound time frame.
So I believe the car is EUR 3 as it was manufactured in 2001 before EUR 4 probably even existed. But through massive man maths type guess work and mental leaps I've decided the only rational explanation which fits my preferred narrative is simply that the car meets the EUR 4 standard even though it was manufactured in 2001.
So perhaps some very persistent and well organised older car enthusiast types have already jumped through the required hoops to get this car recognised as ULEZ in London. But this database is not shared between all these systems and the Birmingham system doesn't recognise the car as ULEZ.
So I'm planning to appeal on that basis. London says I'm exempt therefore I should be exempt from all other zones. I'll be drafting my very short and well worded appeal along these lines later today.
Just for completeness it appears I got snapped by one of their cameras entering the a38 under pass network which zips through the middle of Birmingham heading to the m6. I don't live in the area. I live near the Trafford Centre.
If I had just gone round the ring road I would have probably avoided the zone but wasn't actually aware this is in the zone prior to arriving and seeing some signs. As discussed above I was basically ignoring the signs anyway as I thought the car was already exempt.
It kind of makes sense that it is in the zone as it is very central. However making cars go round the slower ring road with traffic lights and roundabouts seems silly when you have this brilliant under pass system which would produce a lot less toxic emissions.
So I believe the car is EUR 3 as it was manufactured in 2001 before EUR 4 probably even existed. But through massive man maths type guess work and mental leaps I've decided the only rational explanation which fits my preferred narrative is simply that the car meets the EUR 4 standard even though it was manufactured in 2001.
So perhaps some very persistent and well organised older car enthusiast types have already jumped through the required hoops to get this car recognised as ULEZ in London. But this database is not shared between all these systems and the Birmingham system doesn't recognise the car as ULEZ.
So I'm planning to appeal on that basis. London says I'm exempt therefore I should be exempt from all other zones. I'll be drafting my very short and well worded appeal along these lines later today.
Just for completeness it appears I got snapped by one of their cameras entering the a38 under pass network which zips through the middle of Birmingham heading to the m6. I don't live in the area. I live near the Trafford Centre.
If I had just gone round the ring road I would have probably avoided the zone but wasn't actually aware this is in the zone prior to arriving and seeing some signs. As discussed above I was basically ignoring the signs anyway as I thought the car was already exempt.
It kind of makes sense that it is in the zone as it is very central. However making cars go round the slower ring road with traffic lights and roundabouts seems silly when you have this brilliant under pass system which would produce a lot less toxic emissions.
ATM said:
I've got a ticket from Birmingham for driving through their clean air zone in this car. I assumed it was exempt because it is exempt from the ULEZ in London. So I did notice the signs but thought ignore as I can drive in London so I can drive here. But they have still sent me a fine. What's worse is I have been away and just saw the letter so I'm already into the 120 pound time frame.
So I believe the car is EUR 3 as it was manufactured in 2001 before EUR 4 probably even existed. But through massive man maths type guess work and mental leaps I've decided the only rational explanation which fits my preferred narrative is simply that the car meets the EUR 4 standard even though it was manufactured in 2001.
So perhaps some very persistent and well organised older car enthusiast types have already jumped through the required hoops to get this car recognised as ULEZ in London. But this database is not shared between all these systems and the Birmingham system doesn't recognise the car as ULEZ.
You may well succeed on appeal.So I believe the car is EUR 3 as it was manufactured in 2001 before EUR 4 probably even existed. But through massive man maths type guess work and mental leaps I've decided the only rational explanation which fits my preferred narrative is simply that the car meets the EUR 4 standard even though it was manufactured in 2001.
So perhaps some very persistent and well organised older car enthusiast types have already jumped through the required hoops to get this car recognised as ULEZ in London. But this database is not shared between all these systems and the Birmingham system doesn't recognise the car as ULEZ.
My 04 Euro 3 M3 was initially showing as exempt when they first launched the CAZ checker, there was then a lengthy period of it showing non exempt and now the scheme has gone live it shows exempt again. I've driven into the zone with no contact from BCC so it seems to be exempt after all.
The closest I have to an explanation is that they are not looking at CO2 emissions but they are looking at NOx emissions. My car fails Euro 4 CO2 but meets Euro 4 NOx standards.
It seems they switched the data source for exemption at some point and then switched back again for certain models, most likely following successful appeals from people.
Defintely worth asking them which emissions are being used as criteria for exemption and if yours meets that then appeal on that basis.
Herr Schnell said:
ATM said:
I've got a ticket from Birmingham for driving through their clean air zone in this car. I assumed it was exempt because it is exempt from the ULEZ in London. So I did notice the signs but thought ignore as I can drive in London so I can drive here. But they have still sent me a fine. What's worse is I have been away and just saw the letter so I'm already into the 120 pound time frame.
So I believe the car is EUR 3 as it was manufactured in 2001 before EUR 4 probably even existed. But through massive man maths type guess work and mental leaps I've decided the only rational explanation which fits my preferred narrative is simply that the car meets the EUR 4 standard even though it was manufactured in 2001.
So perhaps some very persistent and well organised older car enthusiast types have already jumped through the required hoops to get this car recognised as ULEZ in London. But this database is not shared between all these systems and the Birmingham system doesn't recognise the car as ULEZ.
You may well succeed on appeal.So I believe the car is EUR 3 as it was manufactured in 2001 before EUR 4 probably even existed. But through massive man maths type guess work and mental leaps I've decided the only rational explanation which fits my preferred narrative is simply that the car meets the EUR 4 standard even though it was manufactured in 2001.
So perhaps some very persistent and well organised older car enthusiast types have already jumped through the required hoops to get this car recognised as ULEZ in London. But this database is not shared between all these systems and the Birmingham system doesn't recognise the car as ULEZ.
My 04 Euro 3 M3 was initially showing as exempt when they first launched the CAZ checker, there was then a lengthy period of it showing non exempt and now the scheme has gone live it shows exempt again. I've driven into the zone with no contact from BCC so it seems to be exempt after all.
The closest I have to an explanation is that they are not looking at CO2 emissions but they are looking at NOx emissions. My car fails Euro 4 CO2 but meets Euro 4 NOx standards.
It seems they switched the data source for exemption at some point and then switched back again for certain models, most likely following successful appeals from people.
Defintely worth asking them which emissions are being used as criteria for exemption and if yours meets that then appeal on that basis.
This Fine just tells me I can pay or 'Make Representations to the Council if I disagree'.
So I am assuming they are using the same rules as the tfl or London ULEZ because if they are not this would be madness of the highest order. And therefore if tfl or London believes this car is exempt then it is exempt from all over zones surely.
I will make my response along these lines and hope they see sense. They can punch in my reg into the tfl and see the result. I would guess they have a separate system or database of vehicles to the tfl setup. Which again seems like nonsense but hardly surprising with the state of UK and systems like this.
ATM said:
How would I ask which emissions rules that are using?
This Fine just tells me I can pay or 'Make Representations to the Council if I disagree'.
So I am assuming they are using the same rules as the tfl or London ULEZ because if they are not this would be madness of the highest order. And therefore if tfl or London believes this car is exempt then it is exempt from all over zones surely.
I will make my response along these lines and hope they see sense. They can punch in my reg into the tfl and see the result. I would guess they have a separate system or database of vehicles to the tfl setup. Which again seems like nonsense but hardly surprising with the state of UK and systems like this.
There's a stand alone website for information which includes a query form, I'd start there:This Fine just tells me I can pay or 'Make Representations to the Council if I disagree'.
So I am assuming they are using the same rules as the tfl or London ULEZ because if they are not this would be madness of the highest order. And therefore if tfl or London believes this car is exempt then it is exempt from all over zones surely.
I will make my response along these lines and hope they see sense. They can punch in my reg into the tfl and see the result. I would guess they have a separate system or database of vehicles to the tfl setup. Which again seems like nonsense but hardly surprising with the state of UK and systems like this.
https://www.brumbreathes.co.uk/contact
First of all this is another classic case of consultations being little more than a box tick exercise.
The consultation produced the largest response ever seen by BCC and was 6-to-1 against by business and
3-to-1 against by residents.
Despite claims that this is not about fining motorists or raising revenue but about improving air quality,
I had suspicions that this would be the start of the slippery slope. And here we are less than a year in
and there is already talk of banning or charging all cars entering the city centre by 20xx.
For the poster above I had a similar issue with my shed Focus. Before this went live the advice was to
check on the London ULEZ site which I did and it said the Focus was exempt. However, when the B'ham
system went live it showed as not exempt. This is impossible if they are using the same underlying
database as claimed. Even if the DB is wrong they should both give the same result.
I chased this around through the suggested channels and got nowhere and no one could explain why
the two sites gave a different result. There was a lot of press coverage about "incorrect" results as well.
I suspected I was not alone so dropped an e-mail to my MP. Shortly after it was resolved and the Focus is
now exempt.
So yes - follow it up.
The consultation produced the largest response ever seen by BCC and was 6-to-1 against by business and
3-to-1 against by residents.
Despite claims that this is not about fining motorists or raising revenue but about improving air quality,
I had suspicions that this would be the start of the slippery slope. And here we are less than a year in
and there is already talk of banning or charging all cars entering the city centre by 20xx.
For the poster above I had a similar issue with my shed Focus. Before this went live the advice was to
check on the London ULEZ site which I did and it said the Focus was exempt. However, when the B'ham
system went live it showed as not exempt. This is impossible if they are using the same underlying
database as claimed. Even if the DB is wrong they should both give the same result.
I chased this around through the suggested channels and got nowhere and no one could explain why
the two sites gave a different result. There was a lot of press coverage about "incorrect" results as well.
I suspected I was not alone so dropped an e-mail to my MP. Shortly after it was resolved and the Focus is
now exempt.
So yes - follow it up.
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