Birmingham ULEZ - Anyone waiting on appeal?

[ATM]

ATM said:

To me its quite simple. I believe EUR 4 requires the car to be below in these following metrics if it is petrol -

CO ------------------ 1.0
THC ---------------- 0.1
NOx ---------------- 0.08

The certificate of conformity shows for my car -

CO ------------------ 0.613
THC ---------------- 0.088
NOx ---------------- 0.048

What more do they need to know?

O
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I sent the above - almost exactly- but with some more polite words - and just got this reply ..... does this feel like progress ..... or is that wishful thinking

DVLA Person said:

Dear ATM,

I am looking into your enquiry for you. Please be aware it can take up to 15 working days for you to receive a response.

Thank you for your patience.

Please be aware, if your enquiry is regarding your vehicle’s compliance within a Clean Air Zone, you would still need to make payments while the investigation is being undertaken. If the outcome of the investigation shows your vehicle as compliant, you can submit an application for a refund directly to the Local Authority.

Best Regards,

Name Removed

[ATM]

Victory

No letters to MPs. No letters to AA. No letters to anyone. Just kept plugging away. The process does work - eventually.

DVLA Person said:

Dear ATM

Thank you for your enquiry received on 05/01/2022. Your case reference number is Case Number Removed.

From the information available on your DVLA vehicle record, I can see that your vehicle was first registered in June 2001 and does not have a confirmed Euro status on record. The Drive in a Clean Air Zone service, in the absence of a confirmed Euro status, considers the Date of First Registration of your vehicle and the emissions values recorded at registration to determine whether it likely meets the Euro 4 minimum emissions standard for Clean Air Zones.

Based on the information available on your vehicles DVLA record and the information you have provided to support the emissions values for your vehicle indicates that your vehicle does meet the Euro 4 emissions standard, and your vehicle will not be chargeable to drive, into, or within, the Clean Air Zone.

I have requested for your record to be updated to reflect this.

This will be updated within 2 working days. Please check back on the Vehicle Checker before your next journey into or within the Clean Air Zone.

Please be aware, if you intend to drive into or within the zone before this has been updated, you will still need to pay for the journey. Local Authorities are responsible for all charging orders and refunds, if you have received a PCN, you should follow the instructions on the letter to complete a representation and use our email response as evidence of compliance.

If you have already paid a charge you will need to contact the Local Authority and ask for a refund.


Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our reply form Link Removed

Name Removed - Escalation Unit

[Will_S]

I had a similar interaction with the CAZ over email for my 2006 4.4 Petrol Range Rover not being Bristol or Birmingham compliant despite showing up as free in all other areas.

Sent them V5 stating it met the requirements for NOx. Got the default send us a Certificate of Conformity email as a response.

Sent them a message back saying that the vehicle was declared new at first registration in 2006, so would have to have met Euro 4 standards to be sold in the UK; quoted the NOx figures on the v5, and told them to look at my previous correspondence for the v5 copy as evidence.

Database updated immediately! Result.

[Vanity Projects]

Great result!

I’m still waiting for any sign of a response from my original appeals back in September or whenever.

Wishful thinking that these things have an expiry date for action?

[FiF]

Result!

Now just need Birmingham to accept the situation. Go!

[ATM]

Vanity Projects said:

Great result!

I’m still waiting for any sign of a response from my original appeals back in September or whenever.

Wishful thinking that these things have an expiry date for action?

Re expiry date

All my responses to the dvla people have been next working day except this most recent one. They did warn me in their prior response that it could take up to 15 days. In my latest response you will see - well maybe you didn't notice- its from someone in the escalation team.

So I'm not sure which body or thing you're referring to.

I still have the fine hanging over me. I did initially appeal but they recently responded saying the DVLA records tell them I have to pay. So I will appeal again now that these have been updated. These people could be much slower or if yours was a very early case maybe it's got lost somewhere.

[ATM]

FiF said:

Result!

Now just need Birmingham to accept the situation. Go!

Exactly

I can't imagine a negative outcome now. I'm tempted to go driving through Birmingham this weekend just because. Perhaps I'll find some photo opps inside the Clean Air Zone.

[Pit Pony]

whatmoretyres said:

Not quite the same page, but bare with me…

Why don’t they make the expressway free now it’s publicly owned and instead charge vehicles to go through the middle of town on the ‘old’ m6? Shirley that would make a massive difference to air quality in Birmingham?

I work just outside the ULEZ in Aston, on the City side of Spaghetti Junction. I commute from Uttoxeter down the A38. If I could save £15 and use the M6 Toll for nothing, it woukd save 10 mins and make my fuel consumption 38 mpg, instead of 32 mpg, although it is further.

The fuel is wasted in the stop start of the A38 from Lichfield. Numerous stops at traffic light controlled roundabouts. Given the number of cars I see doing the same journey, I think it would free up the A38 a bit and reduce the stop start traffic in the evening too. The worst bit though is getting the 1/2 mile to the M6.

[FiF]

ATM said:

FiF said:

Result!

Now just need Birmingham to accept the situation. Go!

Exactly

I can't imagine a negative outcome now. I'm tempted to go driving through Birmingham this weekend just because. Perhaps I'll find some photo opps inside the Clean Air Zone.

Realise I'm being very jaundiced about Birmingham's behaviour but I can just imagine them trying to weasel around the words "Please be aware, if you intend to drive into or within the zone before this has been updated, you will still need to pay for the journey." on the obvious grounds that you did drive into a zone before any update.

Never underestimate the vindictiveness of a Midlands council officer.

Although DVLA did helpfully add that their update could be used in representations against a PCN.

Wish every success.

Also noted that Khan intends to extend the London ULEZ out beyond the North and South Circulars to include all Greater London boroughs. Currently raking in 5 million a day month on non compliance. Plus increase the congestion charge from £11.50 to £15 and that will also now be charged on weekends.


Oops minor error there, now corrected. Still 5 million a month isn't change down the back of the sofa.

Edited by FiF on Saturday 5th March 09:10

[Pit Pony]

FiF said:

Realise I'm being very jaundiced about Birmingham's behaviour but I can just imagine them trying to weasel around the words "Please be aware, if you intend to drive into or within the zone before this has been updated, you will still need to pay for the journey." on the obvious grounds that you did drive into a zone before any update.

Never underestimate the vindictiveness of a Midlands council officer.

Although DVLA did helpfully add that their update could be used in representations against a PCN.

Wish every success.

Also noted that Khan intends to extend the London ULEZ out beyond the North and South Circulars to include all Greater London boroughs. Currently raking in 5 million a day month on non compliance. Plus increase the congestion charge from £11.50 to £15 and that will also now be charged on weekends.


Oops minor error there, now corrected. Still 5 million a month isn't change down the back of the sofa.

Edited by FiF on Saturday 5th March 09:10

It's going to cost the London Economy, bilions, when hard working people are forced out of work because they can't afford to buy a compliant vehicle. Probably.

[steve S owner]

I recently went into Birmingham and worked out my route to avoid the zone however there were some very bad diversions in place so by the time I returned I wasnt 100% certain I had not somehow strayed into the zone. So I contacted the Council and asked if they could tell me if I had gone into the zone so that if I had done so i could pay and thus avoid a fine. But they cant do that, you have to either pay on the off chance that you went in, or wait until they fine you. So its simply a money making scheme then.

[ATM]

[megaphone]

ATM said:

I hope you are going to pursue costs?

[FiF]

Result! I just love it when Birmingham doesn't get the money.

Personally I'd move on rather than engage in a vindictive post win battle, but that's me. Won't stop you advising others who fall into a similar trap one hopes.

[ATM]

FiF said:

Result! I just love it when Birmingham doesn't get the money.

Personally I'd move on rather than engage in a vindictive post win battle, but that's me. Won't stop you advising others who fall into a similar trap one hopes.

Yeah I can't be arsed asking for money. I have won now so that's that.

Of course I am happy to give anyone else pointers dealing with the same problem with their own P+J.

[808 Estate]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Is there a convenient layby provided so you can legally use your phone to pay?

[OutInTheShed]

ATM said:

To me its quite simple. I believe EUR 4 requires the car to be below in these following metrics if it is petrol -

CO ------------------ 1.0
THC ---------------- 0.1
NOx ---------------- 0.08

The certificate of conformity shows for my car -

CO ------------------ 0.613
THC ---------------- 0.088
NOx ---------------- 0.048

What more do they need to know?

Euro 4 requires those numbers measured by a different method than was used when your car was type approved.
You are lucky that the councils don't know what they are doing IMHO.

Emission Testing
Test Procedures. Emissions are tested over a chassis dynamometer test cycle and expressed in g/km (except PN, which is expressed in 1/km). Over the time, there have been several changes to the regulatory emission test cycles:

ECE 15 + EUDC: The original EU test cycle (also known as the MVEG-A test), including urban and extra-urban segments, performed from a hot start.
NEDC: Effective from 2000 (Euro 3), the ECE 15 + EUDC test was modified to eliminate the 40 s engine warm-up period before the beginning of emission sampling. This modified cold start test was referred to as the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) or as the MVEG-B test.

[Phunk]

Apologies for dragging up an old thread.

I own a 2005 Toyota Prius, which according to the GOV clean air zone tracker I need to pay £8 a day to drive In the Birmingham ULEZ.

Yet, if it was an identical 2006 Toyota Prius it's free!

How does this work, exact same car, same engine, same emissions.

[ATM]

Phunk said:

Apologies for dragging up an old thread.

I own a 2005 Toyota Prius, which according to the GOV clean air zone tracker I need to pay £8 a day to drive In the Birmingham ULEZ.

Yet, if it was an identical 2006 Toyota Prius it's free!

How does this work, exact same car, same engine, same emissions.

It doesnt work.

Is your car ULEZ on TFL?

If your car is petrol it needs to be EUR4 to be exempt in all the CAZ - including Birmingham. If it is not EUR4 you need to get the Cert of Conformity from the manufacturer and submit this to the email address for these things at the DVLA. They will then review and decide. If your car meets the EUR4 standards but it is not designated as EUR4 then they will usually find in your favour. But you might need to beg and plead a bit first. Thats what I had to do.

[FiF]

ATM said:

Phunk said:

Apologies for dragging up an old thread.

I own a 2005 Toyota Prius, which according to the GOV clean air zone tracker I need to pay £8 a day to drive In the Birmingham ULEZ.

Yet, if it was an identical 2006 Toyota Prius it's free!

How does this work, exact same car, same engine, same emissions.

It doesnt work.

Is your car ULEZ on TFL?

If your car is petrol it needs to be EUR4 to be exempt in all the CAZ - including Birmingham. If it is not EUR4 you need to get the Cert of Conformity from the manufacturer and submit this to the email address for these things at the DVLA. They will then review and decide. If your car meets the EUR4 standards but it is not designated as EUR4 then they will usually find in your favour. But you might need to beg and plead a bit first. Thats what I had to do.

There was something in the Birmingham Mail recently, involving a Porsche Cayenne and a Mercedes that were not recognised. Seems to be some issue about recognition of personal number plates.

Sounds like officials are unsympathetic just telling people to buy a new car, or pay the fine and it will be refunded.

Personally I avoid the place, spend money elsewhere.