Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Byker28i said:
The interesting bit about the Napier university research they quote is that they suggested applying 20mph to appropriate roads, not the blanket approach the Senedd took. And again those figures used traffic levels from 2017 to 2019, ignoring the impact covid had on the number of home workers now.
It's a great research paper."This report estimates the casualty savings of 20mph, in the first year alone, to be just over
£92M; nearly three times higher than the implementation costs.
However, evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety, as well as other health benefits such as reduced noise and air
pollution."
The investment in 20 mph rollout makes even more sense if younger generations can avoid being a burden on the NHS like the inactive, chain smoking and obese boomers.
" An exceptions process has been developed where current 30mph could remain where the movement function is significant and the place function limited/absent. This will be determined by each of the 22 local Councils across Wales. This needs to be based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure, not least given that representative sample surveys show consistent support for
20mph across the UK."
Great point of note.
Changes made:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68838...
Interesting.. not sure to what extent the changes made will be. Can you tell theres an election on the way
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68838...
Interesting.. not sure to what extent the changes made will be. Can you tell theres an election on the way
8IKERDAVE said:
Changes made:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68838...
Interesting.. not sure to what extent the changes made will be. Can you tell theres an election on the way
Might not come to much but it’s a positive move I hope.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68838...
Interesting.. not sure to what extent the changes made will be. Can you tell theres an election on the way
Evanivitch said:
It's a great research paper...
"evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety..."
How exactly does reducing my free time, by forcing me to spend more time in my car, get me fitter ?"evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety..."
I had far more stress and anxiety being forced to drive behind some moron at 15 mph (in my last trip to Wales). Than I did at 35ish on previous trips
KTMsm said:
Evanivitch said:
It's a great research paper...
"evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety..."
How exactly does reducing my free time, by forcing me to spend more time in my car, get me fitter ?"evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety..."
I had far more stress and anxiety being forced to drive behind some moron at 15 mph (in my last trip to Wales). Than I did at 35ish on previous trips
I clicked on the link offered for Technical-Paper-101.The-value-of-prevention.AD_.pdf and got 'Not Found The requested URL was not found on this server'.
The date appears to be 2022 and as such it inevitably provides a historical view as at 2024 of public support levels. If I got to info on the same report being quoted above, by searching on the quote itself, then there's also this "New research showing a reduction in deaths and injuries as traffic slows down is being published today alongside new survey results showing continued public support for the national roll out of the lower 20mph speed limit next year".
The phrasing "as traffic slows down" suggests modelling of future outcomes rather than data gathered already in the real world. Any sampling was prior to the roll-out "next year (at the time) and hence must be limited. The phrases "could save"and "estimated cost saving" as opposed to "has saved" or "savings achieved" also suggest modelling rather than data alone has been used for assessing projected benefits as opposed to actual benefits. If only the file was on the server.
,
There's not much to be seen on the real costs of a go-slow, as opposed to benefits. Any cost-benefit analysis requires both costs and benefits. For example there's more than one way of slowing down vehicular travel, alongside compliance with lower speed limits there's congestion. The costs of slower travel are high. Where and what are they in the report that wasn't on the server?
This report (pdf) uses data on the impact of 20 limits.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bf...
Interestingly the conclusions are firm on safety outcomes, in spite of the content above. Conclusions also acknowledge that the study "has not sought to collect primary data on wider impacts relating to the local economy..." which is a shame but not surprising. Cost benefit analysis needs costs as well.
Anyway... while the wheels are falling off 20mph in Wales, It remains to be seen how long (time) and how far the resulting policy skid will go.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bf...
Report said:
How have collision and casualty rates changed? What has been the change in residential areas?
The comparator analysis indicates that there is insufficient evidence to conclude that there has been a significant change in collisions and casualties following the introduction of 20mph limits in residential areas, in the short term (based on the post-implementation data available to date). Although the absolute number of collisions and casualties (per km, per year) has reduced in the residential areas, there has also been a reduction in the corresponding 30mph comparator areas.
Only one area was noted where the change in collisions and casualties, relative to the 30mph comparator area, was significant. There were 12 case study schemes. The comparator analysis indicates that there is insufficient evidence to conclude that there has been a significant change in collisions and casualties following the introduction of 20mph limits in residential areas, in the short term (based on the post-implementation data available to date). Although the absolute number of collisions and casualties (per km, per year) has reduced in the residential areas, there has also been a reduction in the corresponding 30mph comparator areas.
Interestingly the conclusions are firm on safety outcomes, in spite of the content above. Conclusions also acknowledge that the study "has not sought to collect primary data on wider impacts relating to the local economy..." which is a shame but not surprising. Cost benefit analysis needs costs as well.
Anyway... while the wheels are falling off 20mph in Wales, It remains to be seen how long (time) and how far the resulting policy skid will go.
turbobloke said:
This report (pdf) uses data on the impact of 20 limits.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bf...
Interestingly the conclusions are firm on safety outcomes, in spite of the content above. Conclusions also acknowledge that the study "has not sought to collect primary data on wider impacts relating to the local economy..." which is a shame but not surprising. Cost benefit analysis needs costs as well.
Anyway... while the wheels are falling off 20mph in Wales, It remains to be seen how long (time) and how far the resulting policy skid will go.
That report uses data from a study with only limited implementation of 20 mph and in areas where speeds were already below 30 mph due to the nature of the hazard. Actual speed reductions were minor (<1.5mph) as a result.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bf...
Report said:
How have collision and casualty rates changed? What has been the change in residential areas?
The comparator analysis indicates that there is insufficient evidence to conclude that there has been a significant change in collisions and casualties following the introduction of 20mph limits in residential areas, in the short term (based on the post-implementation data available to date). Although the absolute number of collisions and casualties (per km, per year) has reduced in the residential areas, there has also been a reduction in the corresponding 30mph comparator areas.
Only one area was noted where the change in collisions and casualties, relative to the 30mph comparator area, was significant. There were 12 case study schemes. The comparator analysis indicates that there is insufficient evidence to conclude that there has been a significant change in collisions and casualties following the introduction of 20mph limits in residential areas, in the short term (based on the post-implementation data available to date). Although the absolute number of collisions and casualties (per km, per year) has reduced in the residential areas, there has also been a reduction in the corresponding 30mph comparator areas.
Interestingly the conclusions are firm on safety outcomes, in spite of the content above. Conclusions also acknowledge that the study "has not sought to collect primary data on wider impacts relating to the local economy..." which is a shame but not surprising. Cost benefit analysis needs costs as well.
Anyway... while the wheels are falling off 20mph in Wales, It remains to be seen how long (time) and how far the resulting policy skid will go.
It's an entirely different approach in Wales. And enforcement has yet to really take effect. Majority of drivers are still offered roadside education.
Evanivitch said:
That report uses data from a study with only limited implementation of 20 mph and in areas where speeds were already below 30 mph due to the nature of the hazard. Actual speed reductions were minor (<1.5mph) as a result.
It's an entirely different approach in Wales. And enforcement has yet to really take effect. Majority of drivers are still offered roadside education.
Education. It's an entirely different approach in Wales. And enforcement has yet to really take effect. Majority of drivers are still offered roadside education.
oakdale said:
Evanivitch said:
That report uses data from a study with only limited implementation of 20 mph and in areas where speeds were already below 30 mph due to the nature of the hazard. Actual speed reductions were minor (<1.5mph) as a result.
It's an entirely different approach in Wales. And enforcement has yet to really take effect. Majority of drivers are still offered roadside education.
Education. It's an entirely different approach in Wales. And enforcement has yet to really take effect. Majority of drivers are still offered roadside education.
Tankrizzo said:
Evanivitch said:
Perhaps they considered the effort of moving your hands and feet to drive is more than typing more tosh on PH?
If the latter provided cardiovascular benefits you'd be the Mo Farah of PH.Evanivitch said:
KTMsm said:
How exactly does reducing my free time, by forcing me to spend more time in my car, get me fitter ?
Perhaps they considered the effort of moving your hands and feet to drive is more than typing more tosh on PH?KTMsm said:
Evanivitch said:
KTMsm said:
How exactly does reducing my free time, by forcing me to spend more time in my car, get me fitter ?
Perhaps they considered the effort of moving your hands and feet to drive is more than typing more tosh on PH?KTMsm said:
Evanivitch said:
It's a great research paper...
"evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety..."
How exactly does reducing my free time, by forcing me to spend more time in my car, get me fitter ?"evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety..."
I had far more stress and anxiety being forced to drive behind some moron at 15 mph (in my last trip to Wales). Than I did at 35ish on previous trips
Stella Tortoise said:
8IKERDAVE said:
Changes made:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68838...
Interesting.. not sure to what extent the changes made will be. Can you tell theres an election on the way
Might not come to much but it’s a positive move I hope.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68838...
Interesting.. not sure to what extent the changes made will be. Can you tell theres an election on the way
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