Mandatory anti-tailgate technology after EU ruling

[vaud]

dibbers006 said:

Are we not breeding a bunch of fkwits with this stuff.

Not sure. We still seem to have drivers of many vehicles (large and small) tailgating.

I for one would feel a teeny bit safer if the dick behind me in a HGV 6ft off my bumper was at least reminded by his systems that he is a touch too close, even if I'm not doing the speed he wants me to. Ditto the dick in a 3 series on his way to a very important meeting.

Autonomous, or at least semi-autonomous is coming, like it or not.

[QuickQuack]

dibbers006 said:

Are we not breeding a bunch of fkwits with this stuff.

We've already bred them, we're now trying to keep them alive...

[rxe]

ruggedscotty said:

There’s a presumption that the rear driver is to blame for a rear-end accident, but that presumption can be overcome. If a driver brakes very abruptly without a reasonable cause for doing so (like braking suddenly and totally in the middle of an open road with no traffic or traffic signals nearby) and a rear-end collision ensues, the lead driver may actually be the one who’s to blame.

Actually it would be very difficult to prove. and thats the thing. its always the one the drives into the other car to blame. unless they reverse into the other car...

A fox came out of the hedge officer. Of course the bloke behind me didn't see it, he was driving up my arse.

I agree, the only time I've driven a car with AEB it tried to kill me and I had to pull over to work out how to turn it off.

[skwdenyer]

Derek Smith said:

I have it on my VW cruise control. The gap it leaves is such that I keep having cars pull into the gap I leave, meaning my car slows, frightening the life out of the driver behind. In fact, it's got to the stage where I now disengage CC when I realised someone's going to confuse the damn thing. I mean, I end up going backwards in top gear.

My wife's Peugeot 5008 has this, but the distance to the car in front is adjustable. Is the VW system a fixed distance only?

[BertBert]

In what way is automatic emergency braking construed as anti tailgating technology?

[martinbiz]

r3g said:

We can switch it off, but they see if we have any kind of accident regardless of blame, we'll be deemed to be at fault for switching it off. Yeah...

Whoever told you that is talking utter B*ll*cks

[r3g]

martinbiz said:

Whoever told you that is talking utter B*ll*cks

Company policy. Don't like it, there's the door.

[NGee]

martinbiz said:

r3g said:

We can switch it off, but they see if we have any kind of accident regardless of blame, we'll be deemed to be at fault for switching it off. Yeah...

Whoever told you that is talking utter B*ll*cks

Maybe it's the company he works for. Whilst it may not be illegal to switch it off, I guess his boss(es) can make any rules they want to.

ETA Just seen r3g's reply.

[r3g]

NGee said:

Maybe it's the company he works for. Whilst it may not be illegal to switch it off, I guess his boss(es) can make any rules they want to.

ETA Just seen r3g's reply.

Yep. I only do odd days now and spend more time in the yard moving stuff around rather than going out on the road, but according to the drivers with the newest units, the option to turn it off in the settings has now been mapped out so it's on permanently.

[bigothunter]

r3g said:

martinbiz said:

Whoever told you that is talking utter B*ll*cks

Company policy. Don't like it, there's the door.

Yup

Professional drivers have been provided with safety 'enhancements' and are expected to use them. Similar to Health & Safety procedures. I wonder if car insurance policies will work the same way.

[Narcisus]

Had it on my Superb for 7 years and never caused me any problems. Had the red flashing warning a few times but that’s it.

[turbotim43]

skwdenyer said:

My wife's Peugeot 5008 has this, but the distance to the car in front is adjustable. Is the VW system a fixed distance only?

You can change the distance on the VW system, you can also temporarily override it by applying a little bit of pressure to the throttle

I've found sometimes if I pass a car that is turning right that is in a turning lane it applies the brakes, as soon as I feel it start to brake I apply a bit of throttle and it carries on

Edited for spelling

[No ideas for a name]

Firstly, the linked article seems to have been written by the same autonomous system that controls AEB. It is refering to anti-tailgating, mixing that up with automatic braking, and also mixing a previous story about collisions due to all lane running. Add to that, Edmund King wittering on about lower grade vehicles...

I rejected a vehicle a few years ago partly due to a dangerous implementation of AEB. Mine often got confused and applied the brakes hard. I could understand its 'error' occasionally, such as stationary traffic in lane 1 with free flowing traffic in lane 2 on a curve for instance.

Final straw was when it applied the brakes hard whilst on a perfectly straight and empty dual carriageway. If there had have been anyone behind it would have caused an accident. It was a full on emergency stop which threw me in to the belts... then once it reached about 30mph, just released the brakes and carried on.

I now have the EXACT same model as was rejected, but two years newer. This one is better but still gets confused.

It is a good idea in theory, but the implementation is, in my view, dangerous.

[IJWS15]

QuickQuack said:

We've already bred them, we're now trying to keep them alive...

So true

[bigothunter]

No ideas for a name said:

Firstly, the linked article seems to have been written by the same autonomous system that controls AEB. It is refering to anti-tailgating, mixing that up with automatic braking, and also mixing a previous story about collisions due to all lane running. Add to that, Edmund King wittering on about lower grade vehicles...

I rejected a vehicle a few years ago partly due to a dangerous implementation of AEB. Mine often got confused and applied the brakes hard. I could understand its 'error' occasionally, such as stationary traffic in lane 1 with free flowing traffic in lane 2 on a curve for instance.

Final straw was when it applied the brakes hard whilst on a perfectly straight and empty dual carriageway. If there had have been anyone behind it would have caused an accident. It was a full on emergency stop which threw me in to the belts... then once it reached about 30mph, just released the brakes and carried on.

I now have the EXACT same model as was rejected, but two years newer. This one is better but still gets confused.

It is a good idea in theory, but the implementation is, in my view, dangerous.

Bendix Commercial Vehicle Systems said:

Adaptive control with braking (ACB) cruise control systems are used in vehicles for maintaining a safe relative distance between a host vehicle and forward vehicle.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8510012B2/en

Surely AEB and ACB use the same sensors and processor, with just software code providing distinction? Effectively they are the same system providing parallel functions. Both are capable of applying the vehicle's brakes.

Unless commercial vehicle and car anti-tailgating systems are fundamentally different...

[Draxindustries1]

I had a problem with this on a hired top of the range Fiesta. On the A15 heading towards Hull, I went to overtake a truck doing around 50mph, I closed the gap and pulled out to go past only to have the brakes slam on. Imo, the system is dangerous. Another system I had to turn off as it was so annoying was the lane assist , more like lane hindrance..

[Vipers]

Draxindustries1 said:

I had a problem with this on a hired top of the range Fiesta. On the A15 heading towards Hull, I went to overtake a truck doing around 50mph, I closed the gap and pulled out to go past only to have the brakes slam on. Imo, the system is dangerous. Another system I had to turn off as it was so annoying was the lane assist , more like lane hindrance..

I hired a BMW last year, reverse parking was an absolute nightmare. As my rear wing came close to the other parked car it stopped.

Gave up and parked elsewhere, yes you can disable them, but no one told me that. Had to tell the guy behind me why I gave up parking, bet he thought tt can’t reverse park.

[mko9]

At what point will the automated self-drive technology start signaling and getting the heck out of the passing lane?

[anonymous-user]

ruggedscotty said:

There’s a presumption that the rear driver is to blame for a rear-end accident, but that presumption can be overcome. If a driver brakes very abruptly without a reasonable cause for doing so (like braking suddenly and totally in the middle of an open road with no traffic or traffic signals nearby) and a rear-end collision ensues, the lead driver may actually be the one who’s to blame.

Actually it would be very difficult to prove. and thats the thing. its always the one the drives into the other car to blame. unless they reverse into the other car...

Well really the car behind is still to blame as they should always allow enough space for car in front to do an emergency stop, no matter whether the stop may appear unnecessary to the car behind as there could be some reason thats blocked from view by the car in front.

[No ideas for a name]

bigothunter said:

Surely AEB and ACB use the same sensors and processor, with just software code providing distinction? Effectively they are the same system providing parallel functions. Both are capable of applying the vehicle's brakes.

Unless commercial vehicle and car anti-tailgating systems are fundamentally different...

Yes it is 'just' software.
In the case of active cruise, it is a fairly simple algorthm to lock on to the vehicle in front and do a follow. On mine, the gap can be adjusted, so it lets you tailgate quite happily (I am uncomfortable if set at its minimum gap - too close for me). Not sure if mine uses just radar, or if it uses the cameras as well, but very few times does it get confused.
In no way would I say this is anti-tailgating.

The AEB on the other hand, it is a very complex problem for a dumb machine to solve. A human, even a fairly dumb one can tell the differences between say trees on the outside of a bend, parked vehicles, moving vehicles and do a reasonable job of predicting the path of moving vehicles.
With the current state of play, it appears dangerous to me. I can't see how it has got through any approvals. I suppose there is a formula that 'proves' it saves more colisions than it causes.

Again, this doesn't seem to be anti-tailgating. Maybe I don't drive close enough to see it kick in... only time I have had it panic is when someone on the Motorway pulled in front of me very closely when doing say 5mph MORE than me (ie. the gap was increasing), the AEB started shouting but didn't apply the brakes.

It worst feature at the moment is in the situation when approaching traffic lights with a left filter/slip. You can be driving along, indicate left with a clear road peeling off to the left, when it suddenly 'sees' the stopped traffic for straight ahead and slams on.

To be fair, though it is always a shock as it isn't consistant, it does let you overide it by just pressing the accelerator.