More tfl madness/money grabbing

[untakenname]

I could understand if it was parking in the lanes but sometimes the need arises that you need to go briefly into them simply to keep traffic flowing.

[fred bloggs]

untakenname said:

I could understand if it was parking in the lanes but sometimes the need arises that you need to go briefly into them simply to keep traffic flowing.

Your funny. I haven't seen traffic flowing in london for a long time.

[Griffith4ever]

fred bloggs said:

Your funny. I haven't seen traffic flowing in london for a long time.

You say that , and I lived there so would usually agree, but my last two drives into Battersea from the M4 A4 down, across the King's road, were effortless. I was very surprised both times.

[Donbot]

If you could go into an empty cycle lane for an emergency vehicle why can't the emergency vehicle do that?

I'll happily go through a red light (if safe to do so) for an ambulance providing there aren't cameras about. I wouldn't do it for the police though.

[mattyprice4004]

I can see the logic in this, but in reality it’s just going to generate TFL loads of money and not really do much to improve safety.

[Harji]

You're not supposed to cross a solid white line on the road, so I dont see the issue here at all.

[OutInTheShed]

Other places, like Brighton, have had camera enforcement of Bus/cycle/taxi lanes for at least 10 years I think?

People got caught crossing into a bus lane for a few car lengths to turn left.
Or 'filtering' in the bus lane on motorbikes.

[Griffith4ever]

Harji said:

You're not supposed to cross a solid white line on the road, so I dont see the issue here at all.

You actually are, in slow traffic, to get round things, overtake cycles etc - been discussed a lot here. Solid white line is not an absolute ban on crossing it.

Previously in London - ambulance approaches from behind, pull over , perhaps two wheels on pavement. Including pulling over across cycle lane on your left with solid white line.

Now in London - ambulance approaches from behind - do nothing if there is a cycle land on your left as you'll get a ticket.

I understand the perfect logic of protecting cycle lanes, but they need to deal with emergencies.

If you've spent any appreciable time driving in London you will KNOW that the cameras (bus lanes - and they will be using these same cameras apparently) are all setup wholely to fine people and NOT as a deterrent. You can drive vast lengths of bus lanes with out getting fined, as the cameras are set on pinch points and lane merges - as that's where people make understandable honest mistakes and put a single wheel over. TFL are terrible for it. Many years ago I wrot a letter to Red Ken asking to justify the targetting of their bus lane cameras at locations where the lanes end, and not midway along lanes - as this clearly shows they are out to catch, not deter - I got a bog standard "be gone with you" reply from his secretary.

I love London, but driving in it is a complex trap of cameras and fines :-)

Edited by Griffith4ever on Monday 27th June 14:16

[oyster]

Ice_blue_tvr said:

Vipers said:

Just to add an emergency vehicle approaching a junction with stationary traffic at lights should turn the sirens off, and as you say, you should not jump the lights,

It's quite a sad state of affairs that we can't trust people to use their discretion to make space for an emergency vehicle when it comes to traffic lights/bus lanes etc. And that people are forced to prioritise the avoidance of a fine over, potentially, someone's life.

But the lights are red for a reason. The reason for them being red doesn't just stop because an emergency vehicle is behind you.

[oyster]

Must remember to avoid clipping the corner of this one.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.373535,0.1092173...

[RobB_]

oyster said:

Must remember to avoid clipping the corner of this one.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.373535,0.1092173...

hashtag bksInfra

[Harji]

Griffith4ever said:

Harji said:

You're not supposed to cross a solid white line on the road, so I dont see the issue here at all.

You actually are, in slow traffic, to get round things, overtake cycles etc - been discussed a lot here. Solid white line is not an absolute ban on crossing it.

Previously in London - ambulance approaches from behind, pull over , perhaps two wheels on pavement. Including pulling over across cycle lane on your left with solid white line.

Now in London - ambulance approaches from behind - do nothing if there is a cycle land on your left as you'll get a ticket.

I understand the perfect logic of protecting cycle lanes, but they need to deal with emergencies.

If you've spent any appreciable time driving in London you will KNOW that the cameras (bus lanes - and they will be using these same cameras apparently) are all setup wholely to fine people and NOT as a deterrent. You can drive vast lengths of bus lanes with out getting fined, as the cameras are set on pinch points and lane merges - as that's where people make understandable honest mistakes and put a single wheel over. TFL are terrible for it. Many years ago I wrot a letter to Red Ken asking to justify the targetting of their bus lane cameras at locations where the lanes end, and not midway along lanes - as this clearly shows they are out to catch, not deter - I got a bog standard "be gone with you" reply from his secretary.

I love London, but driving in it is a complex trap of cameras and fines :-)

Edited by Griffith4ever on Monday 27th June 14:16

I've driven, ridden (bicycle and motorcycle) and walked as ways of commuting into London over the years. Will start commuting again soonby bike for my two days office visit, but tbh, I can't recall seeing a solid white line only bicycle lane from West London into Central , there are no bicycle lanes through my preffered route through Kensington.
I'll have to think about the ones in Shepards Bush as they were divided from the road by semi-permananet road bollards but I didn't use the cycle lane because either cars blocked the access into them or there was a scooter or motorcycle parked between, so I cycled on the road. I can see why cameras will be useful.

[Vipers]

Griffith4ever said:

Harji said:

You're not supposed to cross a solid white line on the road, so I dont see the issue here at all.

You actually are, in slow traffic, to get round things, overtake cycles etc - been discussed a lot here. Solid white line is not an absolute ban on crossing it.

Don’t confuse rule 140 Cycle lanes and cycle tracks with rule 129 Double white lines where the line nearest to you is solid.

I think Harji is referring to the cycle lane white line as in rule 140.

[Ice_blue_tvr]

oyster said:

But the lights are red for a reason. The reason for them being red doesn't just stop because an emergency vehicle is behind you.

How would you know what the reason is without any context?

How many times have you stopped at a pelican crossing with noone actually crossing? You will have stopped because of the rule, not because of the reason.

If you stop exactly at the line, and you only need to edge over the line by 6" to allow an ambulance to pass, would you honestly not cross the line ever so slightly? I'm sure many people are competent enough to make the call safely.

Edited by Ice_blue_tvr on Monday 27th June 16:35

[Griffith4ever]

Ice_blue_tvr said:

I'm sure many people are competent enough to make the call safely.

They are, but, no amount of competence trumps the law. We are not "allowed" to make that call.

[Griffith4ever]

Harji said:

I've driven, ridden (bicycle and motorcycle) and walked as ways of commuting into London over the years. Will start commuting again soonby bike for my two days office visit, but tbh, I can't recall seeing a solid white line only bicycle lane from West London into Central , there are no bicycle lanes through my preffered route through Kensington.

Cycling wasn't such a big thing when I lived in london, to be fair. It was 12+ years back. There wasn't much in tehe way of cycle lanes back then, so my knowledge is limited . It's changed hugely over recent years.

[Ice_blue_tvr]

Griffith4ever said:

They are, but, no amount of competence trumps the law. We are not "allowed" to make that call.

Of course nobody is above the law. But I will always make the call to move over the line slightly if it means an emergency vehicle can pass safely.

I really hope people aren't really as binary in really life as they make out on the forum tbh.

[ChocolateFrog]

Ice_blue_tvr said:

Sounds good on paper in terms of, who isn't against making cyclists safer.

If it inconveniences the motorist by even 1 second then lots of people.

Half of PH for a start.

[Welshbeef]

Wouldn’t the fines be over ruled for emergency vehicles in action reasons?

Imagine refusing to move and your blocking the police needing to get to a live emergency. Police formally instructing you else they will book you for I guess some sort of accidental aiding and abetting.

[bigothunter]

Welshbeef said:

Wouldn’t the fines be over ruled for emergency vehicles in action reasons?

But you would need to instigate court proceedings to stand any chance of over-ruling. Not worth the hassle - just pay up subordinately.