More tfl madness/money grabbing
Discussion
Griffith4ever said:
Killboy said:
ec1 eex said:
Agreed. There is no discretion applied when it comes to a camera snapping you and a fine coming through the post. As pretty much anyone who's been snapped by a traffic cam will be able to tell you.
Yup, I've received a few. Every one of them I was doing exactly what I was accused of. I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".
What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.
Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.
If you think that's OK then bully for you. I , and an aweful lot of people, don't. It's taking the piss.
And that is why a huge amount of people like me now have zero sympathy for our councils and the powers to be. They take the piss, so consequently, I don't give an inch back.
But, how else do you expect them to deal with it?
Is one wheel over the line for the last 2 metres of the bus lane ok?
And if that's ok, what about 1 wheel over the line for 5 metres?
Or 2 wheels over for 10 metres.
The rule has to be enforced somewhere, and it's easiest to enforce it where subjectivity ends and objectivity begins.
Griffith4ever said:
Well, I can tell you I received one and I was NOT doing what I was accused of, and my appeal was thrown out without discussion.
I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".
What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.
Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.
If you think that's OK then bully for you. I , and an aweful lot of people, don't. It's taking the piss.
And that is why a huge amount of people like me now have zero sympathy for our councils and the powers to be. They take the piss, so consequently, I don't give an inch back.
It sound like you were hard done by.I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".
What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.
Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.
If you think that's OK then bully for you. I , and an aweful lot of people, don't. It's taking the piss.
And that is why a huge amount of people like me now have zero sympathy for our councils and the powers to be. They take the piss, so consequently, I don't give an inch back.
Back in 2013 I got a PCN for doing similar, as per the attached CCTV image. I'm in the Golf entering the left turn lane from behind the tipper truck, where I clipped the end of the bus lane.
I challenged the PCN, using TfL's own guidance for issuing PCN's, and managed to get the PCN cancelled. It's unfortunate that you were not able to get your PCN cancelled as well for what sounds like a lesser infringement than mine.
bigothunter said:
Mandat said:
Back in 2013 I got a PCN for doing similar, as per the attached CCTV image. I'm in the Golf entering the left turn lane from behind the tipper truck, where I clipped the end of the bus lane.
Clearly guilty......of using your car in London.
Mandat said:
It sound like you were hard done by.
Back in 2013 I got a PCN for doing similar, as per the attached CCTV image. I'm in the Golf entering the left turn lane from behind the tipper truck, where I clipped the end of the bus lane.
I challenged the PCN, using TfL's own guidance for issuing PCN's, and managed to get the PCN cancelled. It's unfortunate that you were not able to get your PCN cancelled as well for what sounds like a lesser infringement than mine.
I guess that Van is also fine where it is? Its only a couple of inches Back in 2013 I got a PCN for doing similar, as per the attached CCTV image. I'm in the Golf entering the left turn lane from behind the tipper truck, where I clipped the end of the bus lane.
I challenged the PCN, using TfL's own guidance for issuing PCN's, and managed to get the PCN cancelled. It's unfortunate that you were not able to get your PCN cancelled as well for what sounds like a lesser infringement than mine.
Mandat said:
Griffith4ever said:
Well, I can tell you I received one and I was NOT doing what I was accused of, and my appeal was thrown out without discussion.
I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".
What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.
Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.
If you think that's OK then bully for you. I , and an aweful lot of people, don't. It's taking the piss.
And that is why a huge amount of people like me now have zero sympathy for our councils and the powers to be. They take the piss, so consequently, I don't give an inch back.
It sound like you were hard done by.I was accused of "driving in a bus lane".
What I actually did was put one wheel over the line as the bus lane ended and cars split into both lanes. Purely by mistake, one rear wheel, on the last couple of meters of the lane.
Now you can be all pedantic about it and say technically they were right. But the reality to any reasonable person is I was not "driving in the bus lane" but put one wheel in as the lane ended.
If you think that's OK then bully for you. I , and an aweful lot of people, don't. It's taking the piss.
And that is why a huge amount of people like me now have zero sympathy for our councils and the powers to be. They take the piss, so consequently, I don't give an inch back.
Back in 2013 I got a PCN for doing similar, as per the attached CCTV image. I'm in the Golf entering the left turn lane from behind the tipper truck, where I clipped the end of the bus lane.
I challenged the PCN, using TfL's own guidance for issuing PCN's, and managed to get the PCN cancelled. It's unfortunate that you were not able to get your PCN cancelled as well for what sounds like a lesser infringement than mine.
In my email I asked how it was being used as a deterrent when the camera was clearly setup to catch the inadvertent mistake like I made. I'm all for keeping cars out of the bus lanes. I don't do it, and it doesn't make sense to do it. Trapping people like that just creates ill will and isn't a deterrent in as much as I'd never willingly drive in a bus lane anyhow. All they achieved was making me lose faith in their motivation.
Of course I got the usual responses on the previous page from those that missed the point entirely - you know, like "how often do you drive in bus lanes?" "you were technically in the bus lane", "how far were you really in the bus lane?". But that was expected :-)
Griffith4ever said:
Yep, mine was much more subtle than that too. I wish I still had the CCTV image but it was yonks back. I literally had one back wheel "just" over the last 1-2m of the line. It was absurd enough that I felt the need to write to the Major (fat lot of good it did)
In my email I asked how it was being used as a deterrent when the camera was clearly setup to catch the inadvertent mistake like I made. I'm all for keeping cars out of the bus lanes. I don't do it, and it doesn't make sense to do it. Trapping people like that just creates ill will and isn't a deterrent in as much as I'd never willingly drive in a bus lane anyhow. All they achieved was making me lose faith in their motivation.
Of course I got the usual responses on the previous page from those that missed the point entirely - you know, like "how often do you drive in bus lanes?" "you were technically in the bus lane", "how far were you really in the bus lane?". But that was expected :-)
You are 100% right, the local authorities do take the absolute biscuit, I too fell foul of a "trap" they used in Camden in 2008 ish - went all the way to the appeals hearing and lost, however was never in the wrong.In my email I asked how it was being used as a deterrent when the camera was clearly setup to catch the inadvertent mistake like I made. I'm all for keeping cars out of the bus lanes. I don't do it, and it doesn't make sense to do it. Trapping people like that just creates ill will and isn't a deterrent in as much as I'd never willingly drive in a bus lane anyhow. All they achieved was making me lose faith in their motivation.
Of course I got the usual responses on the previous page from those that missed the point entirely - you know, like "how often do you drive in bus lanes?" "you were technically in the bus lane", "how far were you really in the bus lane?". But that was expected :-)
The camera that got me made the news for being the largest earning camera London over a period of years. It enforces a "turn left" sign at the end of a road - however, you join a one way carriageway so can only turn left - it is impossible to turn right as you are into oncoming traffic. Many motorists turn left, then further down the road they U turn and come back on themselves. The failure being, the council prosecuted people for the wrong offence - it should be a no u turn sign and no u turn penalty enforced. However, they just used this to rake in millions and millions of pounds.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/secret-camera-...
Armchair_Expert said:
You are 100% right, the local authorities do take the absolute biscuit, I too fell foul of a "trap" they used in Camden in 2008 ish - went all the way to the appeals hearing and lost, however was never in the wrong.
The camera that got me made the news for being the largest earning camera London over a period of years. It enforces a "turn left" sign at the end of a road - however, you join a one way carriageway so can only turn left - it is impossible to turn right as you are into oncoming traffic. Many motorists turn left, then further down the road they U turn and come back on themselves. The failure being, the council prosecuted people for the wrong offence - it should be a no u turn sign and no u turn penalty enforced. However, they just used this to rake in millions and millions of pounds.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/secret-camera-...
How did you lose in court for the incorrect offence?The camera that got me made the news for being the largest earning camera London over a period of years. It enforces a "turn left" sign at the end of a road - however, you join a one way carriageway so can only turn left - it is impossible to turn right as you are into oncoming traffic. Many motorists turn left, then further down the road they U turn and come back on themselves. The failure being, the council prosecuted people for the wrong offence - it should be a no u turn sign and no u turn penalty enforced. However, they just used this to rake in millions and millions of pounds.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/secret-camera-...
brickwall said:
ec1 eex said:
Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.
Can you point me to where they’ve said this?https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/speeding-fi...
Killboy said:
How did you lose in court for the incorrect offence?
It didn't up in court. The furthest I could take it was some appeals centre in New Zealand House in central London. After 8 months of appeal process I spoke to a man in a suit in an office, who basically refused to budge, saying I hadn't turned left ( when I turned left ). It came down to how "long" one must drive for having turned left, not to have turned right when turning across the road ( having cleared the junction and turned left already ). It was weak, fraudulent and embarrassing. I had to pay up, was offered no right of appeal, and didn't know any better at the time to escalate further although to the best of my knowledge that was not an option.Armchair_Expert said:
It didn't up in court. The furthest I could take it was some appeals centre in New Zealand House in central London. After 8 months of appeal process I spoke to a man in a suit in an office, who basically refused to budge, saying I hadn't turned left ( when I turned left ). It came down to how "long" one must drive for having turned left, not to have turned right when turning across the road ( having cleared the junction and turned left already ). It was weak, fraudulent and embarrassing. I had to pay up, was offered no right of appeal, and didn't know any better at the time to escalate further although to the best of my knowledge that was not an option.
Pity. I wish/hope they start ticketing all the poor car drivers that drive south on Brixton Hill past the no right turn sign onto Acre Lane and then do a u-turn after the island and cut across 3 lanes of traffic stuffing everyone up to make this - what I'm thinking must be similar to your ticketed - manoeuvre. They can then cry about the "war on the motorist" while trying to get out of a ticket for something that the reason for the prohibition one would think is obvious.Armchair_Expert said:
It didn't up in court. The furthest I could take it was some appeals centre in New Zealand House in central London. After 8 months of appeal process I spoke to a man in a suit in an office, who basically refused to budge, saying I hadn't turned left ( when I turned left ). It came down to how "long" one must drive for having turned left, not to have turned right when turning across the road ( having cleared the junction and turned left already ). It was weak, fraudulent and embarrassing. I had to pay up, was offered no right of appeal, and didn't know any better at the time to escalate further although to the best of my knowledge that was not an option.
Holy s
t! I've just looked at the junction.....So you turned right (sorry, did a u-turn) here?
Killboy said:
Holy st! I've just looked at the junction.....
So you turned right (sorry, did a u-turn) here?
How many traffic light can you see in that picture? Not to mention bollards and barriers. Daunting road environment - no wonder I hate driving in London.t! I've just looked at the junction.....So you turned right (sorry, did a u-turn) here?
Actually I hate London too - awful place
Killboy said:
Griffith4ever said:
Yep, mine was much more subtle than that too. I wish I still had the CCTV image but it was yonks back. I literally had one back wheel "just" over the last 1-2m of the line.
Its a pity you don't have it, I'd love to see it 
LeoSayer said:
An increase in speeding fine revenue does not mean the problem isn't being solved.
Unless the amount fined per offence is going up an increase in speeding fines must mean more people are caught speeding. So not exactly solving the problem of speeding, but might be solving the problem of not enough cash.ec1 eex said:
brickwall said:
ec1 eex said:
Transport for London have publically announced that they aim to increase the number of speeding fines they dish out from ~250k to 1m a year. Reducing speed limits to a blanket 20mph in central London is part of that plan.
Can you point me to where they’ve said this?https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/speeding-fi...
Looks like it was the Met who announced the intention, TfL denying it (but eminently believable)
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