Driving (Moving Traffic) Penalty Charge
Discussion
I recently got a PCN for pushing my motorbike through one of these signs in an LTN (low traffic neighbourhood) in Islington, London
I appealed it on the grounds that I was a pedestrian and not a motorist as I had dismounted, turned off the engine and pushed it which is supported by the photos, but the council isn't having any of it. Do I have grounds for appeal? In plain English, it certainly doesn't feel like pushing a motorbike falls into either a driving or moving traffic issue.
Not a defence, but the crazy thing is that this "filter" is designed for the area to be a low traffic neighbourhood and to have driven around it and back would add another 1 mile in and 1 mile out of the LTN. In London congestion (made worse by the low traffic neighbourhoods), that's 5 mins on the bike, and could be more than 10 in a car.
I appealed it on the grounds that I was a pedestrian and not a motorist as I had dismounted, turned off the engine and pushed it which is supported by the photos, but the council isn't having any of it. Do I have grounds for appeal? In plain English, it certainly doesn't feel like pushing a motorbike falls into either a driving or moving traffic issue.
Not a defence, but the crazy thing is that this "filter" is designed for the area to be a low traffic neighbourhood and to have driven around it and back would add another 1 mile in and 1 mile out of the LTN. In London congestion (made worse by the low traffic neighbourhoods), that's 5 mins on the bike, and could be more than 10 in a car.
te. Plymo said:
On the other hand though there's been cases where it's been decided that someone pushing a bicycle is a Pedestrian, not a Cyclist.
No idea how that relates to a motorbike and a "no motor vehicles" sign though.
This sign prohibits all vehicles except pushed cycles, which is explicit in the legal definition, rather than implicit.No idea how that relates to a motorbike and a "no motor vehicles" sign though.
Curious whether that was the only prohibitive sign, I pushed my cycle...
Anyway, the pushing a cycle across a pedestrian crossing judgement, you count as a pedestrian.
But consider traffic lights. The offence is "propelling" a vehicle across the stop line. Pushing will almost certainly be considered propelling. Now, if you carried the cycle, that might be a different issue.
If you can lift your motorcycle or car, I'm not going to argue with you
Plymo said:
On the other hand though there's been cases where it's been decided that someone pushing a bicycle is a Pedestrian, not a Cyclist.
No idea how that relates to a motorbike and a "no motor vehicles" sign though.
In the given example by OP, cycling is allowed. If it were a simple red circle with a white background, then that is NO VEHICLES’, including riding a bicycle, but pushing a pedal cycle IS allowed.No idea how that relates to a motorbike and a "no motor vehicles" sign though.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Solocle said:
This sign prohibits all vehicles except pushed cycles, which is explicit in the legal definition, rather than implicit.
Curious whether that was the only prohibitive sign, I pushed my cycle...
Anyway, the pushing a cycle across a pedestrian crossing judgement, you count as a pedestrian.
But consider traffic lights. The offence is "propelling" a vehicle across the stop line. Pushing will almost certainly be considered propelling. Now, if you carried the cycle, that might be a different issue.
If you can lift your motorcycle or car, I'm not going to argue with you
‘ Anyway, the pushing a cycle across a pedestrian crossing judgement, you count as a pedestrian.’Curious whether that was the only prohibitive sign, I pushed my cycle...
Anyway, the pushing a cycle across a pedestrian crossing judgement, you count as a pedestrian.
But consider traffic lights. The offence is "propelling" a vehicle across the stop line. Pushing will almost certainly be considered propelling. Now, if you carried the cycle, that might be a different issue.
If you can lift your motorcycle or car, I'm not going to argue with you
You can ride across on a Toucan crossing, but I have not seen one for ages.
Bennet said:
You pushed your motorbike through one of these, then got back on and rode off?
10 out of 10 for audacity.
I was once out for a bike ride, waiting at a red light, when I noticed that all the pedestrian crossings went green at the same time. I jogged my bike across the junction. After all, it was a green man, and I was on foot... 10 out of 10 for audacity.
Pica-Pica said:
‘ Anyway, the pushing a cycle across a pedestrian crossing judgement, you count as a pedestrian.’
You can ride across on a Toucan crossing, but I have not seen one for ages.
I mean, such a crossing is a pedestrian and cycle crossing, a fair few near me. There are also the newfangled tiger (parallel) crossings, which function like zebras.You can ride across on a Toucan crossing, but I have not seen one for ages.
Bennet said:
You pushed your motorbike through one of these, then got back on and rode off?
10 out of 10 for audacity.
I did, with the ignition turned off. I was under the impression that it made me a pedestrian at the time rather than a driver. I certainly didn't feel any more dangerours than a pensioner pulling a shopping trolley through.10 out of 10 for audacity.
Solocle said:
This sign prohibits all vehicles except pushed cycles, which is explicit in the legal definition, rather than implicit.
Curious whether that was the only prohibitive sign, I pushed my cycle...
Anyway, the pushing a cycle across a pedestrian crossing judgement, you count as a pedestrian.
But consider traffic lights. The offence is "propelling" a vehicle across the stop line. Pushing will almost certainly be considered propelling. Now, if you carried the cycle, that might be a different issue.
If you can lift your motorcycle or car, I'm not going to argue with you
M5 underpass near Taunton Services?Curious whether that was the only prohibitive sign, I pushed my cycle...
Anyway, the pushing a cycle across a pedestrian crossing judgement, you count as a pedestrian.
But consider traffic lights. The offence is "propelling" a vehicle across the stop line. Pushing will almost certainly be considered propelling. Now, if you carried the cycle, that might be a different issue.
If you can lift your motorcycle or car, I'm not going to argue with you
Solocle said:
That is a curiosity. Legally a speed limit must be a multiple of 10, unless there has been an exemption signed for it - IIRC this needs to be signed by the minister for transport or something. There have been instances of 15mph limit signs being put up and the police admitting they are not enforcable. PaulD86 said:
That is a curiosity. Legally a speed limit must be a multiple of 10, unless there has been an exemption signed for it - IIRC this needs to be signed by the minister for transport or something. There have been instances of 15mph limit signs being put up and the police admitting they are not enforcable.
I think it might be different there, because it's a special road, rather than a public highway.Likewise the Severn Bridge
Now, if only we could turn this one sideways...
Edited by Solocle on Tuesday 28th June 08:28
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