Advice on car ownership
Discussion
Back in 2019, my friend purchased a car from a driveway trader.
At the time, my friend completed the transfer of ownership with the trader on the DVLA website, and then taxed the car accordingly.
Fast forward to this week, and after signing up for Green Flag breakdown cover, their app flagged to my friend that the car was not taxed.
It was at this point that my friend realised that he had no recollection of ever receiving a V5 (and a search of his house couldn't locate one) or any tax reminder letters from the DVLA.
My friend obviously taxed the car immediately, but now has a dilemma.
The car was untaxed and used on the roads from mid-2020 through to last week.
My friend's assumption is that the online ownership transfer was not successful for whatever reason, and the DVLA never updated it's records with his address as the registered keeper.
My friend does have the full V5 from the previous keeper that he was given by the driveway trader at the time of sale.
My friend would rather not be liable for any fines/charges/nasty surprises that have been brewing in the background while he has driven round in ignorant bliss.
My friend is considering completing the V5 and posting it off with a transfer date of today, and hoping that nothing from the previous couple of years comes back to bite him in the backside.
Firstly, is there a way to see when the last change of ownership is on a car? If so, that would confirm or deny my friend's assumption that the DVLA online transfer of ownership was not successful.
Second of all, would my friend be successful in drawing a line under the past and starting from fresh by just filling in the old V5 to generate a new V5 with correct details, but a very recent transfer date?
My friend is aware that his suggested course of action is not whiter than white, and merely wants to get everything straightened out with the minimum of risk to himself. If his suggested course of action is going to result in even more trouble, then he'll have to suck it up and come clean ... but if no one is ever going to notice, then he'd very much like to get away with it and chalk it up to experience.
At the time, my friend completed the transfer of ownership with the trader on the DVLA website, and then taxed the car accordingly.
Fast forward to this week, and after signing up for Green Flag breakdown cover, their app flagged to my friend that the car was not taxed.
It was at this point that my friend realised that he had no recollection of ever receiving a V5 (and a search of his house couldn't locate one) or any tax reminder letters from the DVLA.
My friend obviously taxed the car immediately, but now has a dilemma.
The car was untaxed and used on the roads from mid-2020 through to last week.
My friend's assumption is that the online ownership transfer was not successful for whatever reason, and the DVLA never updated it's records with his address as the registered keeper.
My friend does have the full V5 from the previous keeper that he was given by the driveway trader at the time of sale.
My friend would rather not be liable for any fines/charges/nasty surprises that have been brewing in the background while he has driven round in ignorant bliss.
My friend is considering completing the V5 and posting it off with a transfer date of today, and hoping that nothing from the previous couple of years comes back to bite him in the backside.
Firstly, is there a way to see when the last change of ownership is on a car? If so, that would confirm or deny my friend's assumption that the DVLA online transfer of ownership was not successful.
Second of all, would my friend be successful in drawing a line under the past and starting from fresh by just filling in the old V5 to generate a new V5 with correct details, but a very recent transfer date?
My friend is aware that his suggested course of action is not whiter than white, and merely wants to get everything straightened out with the minimum of risk to himself. If his suggested course of action is going to result in even more trouble, then he'll have to suck it up and come clean ... but if no one is ever going to notice, then he'd very much like to get away with it and chalk it up to experience.
E-bmw said:
A difficult one but personally I would advise coming clean, all it will cost at this point is the back tax as far as I know. If he doesn't then it could end in fines & car impounding in the extreme.
Thank you.A worry my friend has is what if he's gone through a speed camera a couple of mph too fast ... or parked in the wrong car park for a few minutes too long ... or something similar ... and what would have been a fairly inconsequential speed awareness course or small fine has suddenly ballooned into something much more serious. He's never been caught doing anything wrong in 20+ years of driving, but is worried that sod's law might be about to kick in!
Edited by Rotary Potato on Thursday 13th October 13:24
Yellow Lizud said:
If you check the tax status on the government website, it tells you on that page when the V5 was last updated.
Thank you. That was very helpful.October 2017 ... nearly 2 years before my friend purchased the car.
That at least confirms the current position - it was, as suspected, that the online transfer of ownership wasn't successful.
Both my friend and I are slightly shocked that one can drive the length and breadth of the country for over 2 years with no tax and not be pulled over once ... but there we are!
Fluid said:
Rotary Potato said:
My friend would rather not be liable for any fines/charges/nasty surprises that have been brewing in the background while he has driven round in ignorant bliss.
Any fines/charges/nasty surprises will be of your own doing, so yours to pay.Come clean, think Fargo (or Columbo if you prefer) a cover up only makes it worse
Rotary Potato said:
Thank you. That was very helpful.
October 2017 ... nearly 2 years before my friend purchased the car.
That at least confirms the current position - it was, as suspected, that the online transfer of ownership wasn't successful.
Both my friend and I are slightly shocked that one can drive the length and breadth of the country for over 2 years with no tax and not be pulled over once ... but there we are!
I'd go with the actual date of transfer. Try to be too clever and you might end up liable for everything in the two years before you bought it!October 2017 ... nearly 2 years before my friend purchased the car.
That at least confirms the current position - it was, as suspected, that the online transfer of ownership wasn't successful.
Both my friend and I are slightly shocked that one can drive the length and breadth of the country for over 2 years with no tax and not be pulled over once ... but there we are!
Rotary Potato said:
Back in 2019, my friend purchased a car from a driveway trader.
At the time, my friend completed the transfer of ownership with the trader on the DVLA website, and then taxed the car accordingly.
Fast forward to this week, and after signing up for Green Flag breakdown cover, their app flagged to my friend that the car was not taxed.
It was at this point that my friend realised that he had no recollection of ever receiving a V5 (and a search of his house couldn't locate one) or any tax reminder letters from the DVLA.
My friend obviously taxed the car immediately, but now has a dilemma.
The car was untaxed and used on the roads from mid-2020 through to last week.
My friend's assumption is that the online ownership transfer was not successful for whatever reason, and the DVLA never updated it's records with his address as the registered keeper.
My friend does have the full V5 from the previous keeper that he was given by the driveway trader at the time of sale.
My friend would rather not be liable for any fines/charges/nasty surprises that have been brewing in the background while he has driven round in ignorant bliss.
My friend is considering completing the V5 and posting it off with a transfer date of today, and hoping that nothing from the previous couple of years comes back to bite him in the backside.
Firstly, is there a way to see when the last change of ownership is on a car? If so, that would confirm or deny my friend's assumption that the DVLA online transfer of ownership was not successful.
Second of all, would my friend be successful in drawing a line under the past and starting from fresh by just filling in the old V5 to generate a new V5 with correct details, but a very recent transfer date?
My friend is aware that his suggested course of action is not whiter than white, and merely wants to get everything straightened out with the minimum of risk to himself. If his suggested course of action is going to result in even more trouble, then he'll have to suck it up and come clean ... but if no one is ever going to notice, then he'd very much like to get away with it and chalk it up to experience.
Surely you have owned cars before, and paid road fund licence on those?At the time, my friend completed the transfer of ownership with the trader on the DVLA website, and then taxed the car accordingly.
Fast forward to this week, and after signing up for Green Flag breakdown cover, their app flagged to my friend that the car was not taxed.
It was at this point that my friend realised that he had no recollection of ever receiving a V5 (and a search of his house couldn't locate one) or any tax reminder letters from the DVLA.
My friend obviously taxed the car immediately, but now has a dilemma.
The car was untaxed and used on the roads from mid-2020 through to last week.
My friend's assumption is that the online ownership transfer was not successful for whatever reason, and the DVLA never updated it's records with his address as the registered keeper.
My friend does have the full V5 from the previous keeper that he was given by the driveway trader at the time of sale.
My friend would rather not be liable for any fines/charges/nasty surprises that have been brewing in the background while he has driven round in ignorant bliss.
My friend is considering completing the V5 and posting it off with a transfer date of today, and hoping that nothing from the previous couple of years comes back to bite him in the backside.
Firstly, is there a way to see when the last change of ownership is on a car? If so, that would confirm or deny my friend's assumption that the DVLA online transfer of ownership was not successful.
Second of all, would my friend be successful in drawing a line under the past and starting from fresh by just filling in the old V5 to generate a new V5 with correct details, but a very recent transfer date?
My friend is aware that his suggested course of action is not whiter than white, and merely wants to get everything straightened out with the minimum of risk to himself. If his suggested course of action is going to result in even more trouble, then he'll have to suck it up and come clean ... but if no one is ever going to notice, then he'd very much like to get away with it and chalk it up to experience.
Did it not, at any point, cross your mind?
randomeddy said:
I am slightly surprised that in over two years your friend never thought that the car might need taxing.
Is it the same with insurance, MOT, servicing etc.?
Yes, sounds like he’s trying it on tbh or at least so dilatory in how he treats the legalities of driving, he’ll deserve any fines etc coming his way. Is it the same with insurance, MOT, servicing etc.?
I suspect any dvla penalty will be limited to a 80 quid or so fine for not sorning it. But of course he could have speeding fines, parking fines etc etc, all of which he’s responsible for and rightly so.
Tell him to do the dvla online thing asap but be honest with when he bought the car. Otherwise he’s causing grief for others that they don’t deserve.
DVLA online is available 7am to 7pm only.
Soooo ... to clarify a few bits and pieces ...
My friend has kept the car MOT'd and insured at all times during his ownership. Thankfully he gets a renewal letter about the insurance to remind him that it's due, and his garage sends him a helpful reminder 4 weeks before his MOT is due. My friend is not the most organised of people. He makes full use of support such as this to help him keep on top of things.
My friend waits for the reminder letters to come through that tax is due and then pays it promptly on all the cars in his household (3 cars, for the majority of time my friend has owned the car - the other 2 of which have been changed several times over that period, so a fair volume of letters). He had not realised until this week that of all the reminder letters that came through - and been promptly paid, none of them were for this particular car.
My friend has owned cars before.
My friend has taxed these cars before.
If my friend was deliberately trying to cheat the system for the past few years, then I doubt he would have been as worried as he is about this week's revelation. If there were a way to wind back the clock and notice the lack of V5 earlier, then I have no doubt that my friend would have taken it. But that's not really an option.
I thank those of you who have offered constructive advice. It will all be carefully considered by my friend.
My friend has kept the car MOT'd and insured at all times during his ownership. Thankfully he gets a renewal letter about the insurance to remind him that it's due, and his garage sends him a helpful reminder 4 weeks before his MOT is due. My friend is not the most organised of people. He makes full use of support such as this to help him keep on top of things.
My friend waits for the reminder letters to come through that tax is due and then pays it promptly on all the cars in his household (3 cars, for the majority of time my friend has owned the car - the other 2 of which have been changed several times over that period, so a fair volume of letters). He had not realised until this week that of all the reminder letters that came through - and been promptly paid, none of them were for this particular car.
My friend has owned cars before.
My friend has taxed these cars before.
If my friend was deliberately trying to cheat the system for the past few years, then I doubt he would have been as worried as he is about this week's revelation. If there were a way to wind back the clock and notice the lack of V5 earlier, then I have no doubt that my friend would have taken it. But that's not really an option.
I thank those of you who have offered constructive advice. It will all be carefully considered by my friend.
Edited by Rotary Potato on Friday 14th October 10:26
Edited by Rotary Potato on Friday 14th October 10:40
2ono said:
Tell him to go online and do it again as of today and see what happens, he will have the last keepers address on the V5.
Personally, I'd just bang it in with a transfer date of today, pay the tax and move on. If anything had happened in the past two years your friend would no doubt have been made aware by previous keeper.
For extra peace of mind, he could do a driving licence check - https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence but if he is not the RK hard to see how anything would have tied back to him personally?
Also there's a 6-month limitation period for most routine driving offences so I don't think they could retrospectively do him for speeding etc.
Probably overthinking it.
R56Cooper said:
2ono said:
Tell him to go online and do it again as of today and see what happens, he will have the last keepers address on the V5.
Personally, I'd just bang it in with a transfer date of today, pay the tax and move on. If anything had happened in the past two years your friend would no doubt have been made aware by previous keeper.
For extra peace of mind, he could do a driving licence check - https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence but if he is not the RK hard to see how anything would have tied back to him personally?
Also there's a 6-month limitation period for most routine driving offences so I don't think they could retrospectively do him for speeding etc.
Probably overthinking it.
Oh, and PH Perfection Squad? Do you mean people that comply by the basic requirements of the law, ie the really easy bits?
R56Cooper said:
If anything had happened in the past two years your friend would no doubt have been made aware by previous keeper.
But they wouldn't as (unless I misread the dates) the last change of keeper was 2 years before he bought it, so there is another change that was missed (likely by the driveway seller) in between.E-bmw said:
But they wouldn't as (unless I misread the dates) the last change of keeper was 2 years before he bought it, so there is another change that was missed (likely by the driveway seller) in between.
So on the V5 my friend has, there's a RK who acquired the car in 2014.The Gov.UK website says the last V5 was issued in 2017.
It could be that the V5 in 2017 was issued because of a change of address, or the removal of a private plate (the HPI check my friend did at the time did advise of several private plates the car was had over its life). Or it could be that there was another change of RK in 2017 and the V5 in my friend's possession is an old one. However, the DVLA website did allow the car to be taxed this week off the code on the V5/c ... for whatever that's worth.
EDIT - unless both me and my friend are missing it, there's no 'publication date' or similar written on the V5 itself? Just the date that the RK acquired the car. A issue date would help confirm if the V5 in his possession is the last issued one or not.
Edited by Rotary Potato on Friday 14th October 11:16
Rotary Potato said:
S
EDIT - unless both me and my friend are missing it, there's no 'publication date' or similar written on the V5 itself? Just the date that the RK acquired the car. A issue date would help confirm if the V5 in his possession is the last issued one or not.
I may be mistaken, but check the bottom left corner of page 2, there is a date on the 2nd to bottom row of text.EDIT - unless both me and my friend are missing it, there's no 'publication date' or similar written on the V5 itself? Just the date that the RK acquired the car. A issue date would help confirm if the V5 in his possession is the last issued one or not.
Edited by Rotary Potato on Friday 14th October 11:16
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