Wide single 2 lane carriageways - overtaking
Discussion
What's the road in Cambridgeshire that's a single carriageway but with room for about 5 cars abreast?
As for the example in the OP, yes, crack on, but use extreme caution. And be prepare to be flashed a LOT by oncomers. Expect others to move out in front of you, be hyper aware of your surroundings and places to duck back in, etc etc. Nobody has an absolute right to the middle ground, and if you're straddling the centre line you might well see some lateral movement in front of you. Keep a consistent speed, absolute concentration and you'll need your fast-time information processing to be on its A game.
One other thing: make it very obvious from your positioning what you are doing. Many will assume you'll dive back in.
As for the example in the OP, yes, crack on, but use extreme caution. And be prepare to be flashed a LOT by oncomers. Expect others to move out in front of you, be hyper aware of your surroundings and places to duck back in, etc etc. Nobody has an absolute right to the middle ground, and if you're straddling the centre line you might well see some lateral movement in front of you. Keep a consistent speed, absolute concentration and you'll need your fast-time information processing to be on its A game.
One other thing: make it very obvious from your positioning what you are doing. Many will assume you'll dive back in.
Edited by whimsical ninja on Saturday 25th March 23:37
Edited by whimsical ninja on Saturday 25th March 23:38
We have a road like that near MK and everybody overtakes like the blue car is, actually a few weeks ago somebody was doing that and the police were coming the other way and they just drove past.
When I lived in NZ for a bit most of their main roads were 3 cars wide and people just pulled over slightly to let you past.
When I lived in NZ for a bit most of their main roads were 3 cars wide and people just pulled over slightly to let you past.
Canon_Fodder said:
The overtake as shown by the OP should only be used for overtaking farm vehicles
Most wagons on the A5 are barreling their way up to Holyhead and are doing 60 or near as dammit
As others have mentioned - occasional but randomly placed camera vans add to the risk if pushing on
Speed differential is key Most wagons on the A5 are barreling their way up to Holyhead and are doing 60 or near as dammit
As others have mentioned - occasional but randomly placed camera vans add to the risk if pushing on
Just 4 mph difference between a truck barrelling along on its 56 mph limiter and you breaking the 60 mph limit is not enough. Too much time exposed to danger.
Safer to stay behind the truck...
Pica-Pica said:
M4cruiser said:
Does anyone remember "Death Hill" A20 near Farningham in Kent? Guess why it was called "Death hill".
And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
It was called ‘Death Hill’ because, yes, it was a simple single carriageway, but essentially it attracted a few throbbers on motorbikes who had just left Brand Hatch circuit, and thought they were up to it. In the late 1950s/early 1960s there was no national speed limit outside of urban areas.And why it now looks like this:-
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3756636,0.233647,3...
Riley Blue said:
There was a 'Death Hill' sign near the Horton Kirby turning. We used to go that way quite often in the late '50s / early '60s to visit an aunt and uncle who ran a pub in HK and they used to talk about how dangerous that road was. It was the sharp bend at the bottom where most accidents occurred.
E-bmw said:
Actual said:
E-bmw said:
Did it cause a crash?
Ergo it was safe.
Would it be "safe" to overtake a marked police car?Ergo it was safe.
Which was the cryptic message of my Speed differential lorry overtaking post above.
bigothunter said:
E-bmw said:
Actual said:
E-bmw said:
Did it cause a crash?
Ergo it was safe.
Would it be "safe" to overtake a marked police car?Ergo it was safe.
Which was the cryptic message of my Speed differential lorry overtaking post above.
As there was no reference to this it was always my assumption that TED is taken into account, as I always do so when evaluating the safety of the overtake.
In the oncoming overtaking over hatching picture that I posted above the car was overtaking 3 cars against multiple oncoming cars all in one manoeuvre and was not visible to me until it was level with the second car and I presume that when the manoeuvre was started I was not visible. If there was a clear road and no oncoming traffic then it may be a safe manoeuvre. Overtaking a queue of cars into oncoming traffic that could be performing the same manoeuvre may not be safe.
donkmeister said:
The etiquette is that the driver of the car overtaking there is a 
and can fk right off. It's a SC with two lanes, regardless of the width of the lane or the fact it used to be three lanes.
There's some former three-lane roads near me and this behaviour is very rare. But, in another part of the country I was driving on such a road in the centre of my lane and I had to take evasive action after some muppet swung out into my lane expecting me to just vanish somehow.
If there are three lanes, it's fine to use three lanes. If there are two, you have to wait for a suitable gap.
Someone almost swinging into the side of you, yes silly. Although if it was very clear a car approaching you was about to overtake, would it not make sense to just keep to the left of the lane to give them space to complete their overtake? and can fk right off. It's a SC with two lanes, regardless of the width of the lane or the fact it used to be three lanes.There's some former three-lane roads near me and this behaviour is very rare. But, in another part of the country I was driving on such a road in the centre of my lane and I had to take evasive action after some muppet swung out into my lane expecting me to just vanish somehow.
If there are three lanes, it's fine to use three lanes. If there are two, you have to wait for a suitable gap.
Whether marked as a single-2 or a single-3, with or without hatchings and a flexible approach to the Highway Code regulations... someone once said to me 'don't be the meat in the sandwich', which I think is a good approach to take in terms of timing an overtake manoeuvre to not be alongside a vehicle when an oncoming car is likely to pass.
aturnick54 said:
donkmeister said:
The etiquette is that the driver of the car overtaking there is a and can fk right off. It's a SC with two lanes, regardless of the width of the lane or the fact it used to be three lanes.
There's some former three-lane roads near me and this behaviour is very rare. But, in another part of the country I was driving on such a road in the centre of my lane and I had to take evasive action after some muppet swung out into my lane expecting me to just vanish somehow.
If there are three lanes, it's fine to use three lanes. If there are two, you have to wait for a suitable gap.
Someone almost swinging into the side of you, yes silly. Although if it was very clear a car approaching you was about to overtake, would it not make sense to just keep to the left of the lane to give them space to complete their overtake? and can fk right off. It's a SC with two lanes, regardless of the width of the lane or the fact it used to be three lanes.There's some former three-lane roads near me and this behaviour is very rare. But, in another part of the country I was driving on such a road in the centre of my lane and I had to take evasive action after some muppet swung out into my lane expecting me to just vanish somehow.
If there are three lanes, it's fine to use three lanes. If there are two, you have to wait for a suitable gap.
I hate that good overtaking opportunities are removed from roads where they formerly existed, but when they are gone you unfortunately can't just decide to bring them back. Trying to recreate the third lane is much like skirting round the wrong side of a raised central reservation to overtake. It's possible, but is it good or safe driving?
Biker 1 said:
A22 Uckfield bypass can get pretty lairy - wide 2 lanes, but with multiple roundabouts & a couple of unsighted corners that seem to get narrower. I'm happy to overtake on the straight bits if traffic is not too heavy, but I've seen too many close calls on the curvy bits, so I keep well left.
And the very wide section a little further south towards Hailsham thats exactly like the photo OP posted!donkmeister said:
Part of the issue is that you simply don't expect someone to move out for an overtake on a SC when it puts them into conflict with you. Clearly if someone is barreling down your side of the road you don't shout "Camruh! My right of way!" and brace for impact, you move as far left as you safely can. But if you are just driving down the centre of your lane, and a vehicle coming in the other direction moves out into your lane, you end up having to take evasive action. Even if just to decrease the risk of a collision (e.g. they would have just about fitted between you and whatever they are overtaking, but you again moved to the left to open the gap wider in case the person being overtaken gets the hump and moves right). The person trying to create a third lane is creating a problem for everyone around them by doing so, that requires them to take action to mitigate.
I hate that good overtaking opportunities are removed from roads where they formerly existed, but when they are gone you unfortunately can't just decide to bring them back. Trying to recreate the third lane is much like skirting round the wrong side of a raised central reservation to overtake. It's possible, but is it good or safe driving?
If I was driving on a road which had wide lanes that allowed a vehicle to fit comfortably down the middle I would always be cautious and expecting someone to attempt an overtake. Certainly I would be scanning the road ahead for cars that are positioning themselves to pass the car in front of them, would this not be considered defensive driving?I hate that good overtaking opportunities are removed from roads where they formerly existed, but when they are gone you unfortunately can't just decide to bring them back. Trying to recreate the third lane is much like skirting round the wrong side of a raised central reservation to overtake. It's possible, but is it good or safe driving?
I don't think I would even dream of going in the middle of this and relying on traffic from both side to provide me with room to save a few minutes. I'd overtake in the conventional way in a road like this however.
My paranoia wouldn't be with oncoming traffic not giving me room, but with someone I'm "Overtaking" not noticing me and maybe taking avoidance action of something on the far left like an animal or a pothole.
My paranoia wouldn't be with oncoming traffic not giving me room, but with someone I'm "Overtaking" not noticing me and maybe taking avoidance action of something on the far left like an animal or a pothole.
There's a climb out of Grasmere towards Dunmail Raise that is like this, but wider, you don't need to cross the white line at all, and it's also the most glorious curve up the hillside, you can pull some solid overtakes on the racing line. It's one where it reads like they forgot to put the lane markings in for the third lane it's so spacious.
The only difference in the way I would overtake on a wide road like that is that I might leave less clearance between me and an oncoming car than I would on a narrower road, but I would still aim to be back on my side well before the oncoming car reached me.
Passing three abreast not only risks a careless oncoming driver drifting into you, there is also the danger that having not noticed you until very close, even if there is room to pass, they will panic react and swerve either into you or off the road.
Relying on the skills of a random driver coming the other way, who may be drunk, vaping, talking to the kids in the back seat, very tired, on the phone, seems like madness to me.
Passing three abreast not only risks a careless oncoming driver drifting into you, there is also the danger that having not noticed you until very close, even if there is room to pass, they will panic react and swerve either into you or off the road.
Relying on the skills of a random driver coming the other way, who may be drunk, vaping, talking to the kids in the back seat, very tired, on the phone, seems like madness to me.
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