Chris Kaba Shooting
Discussion
Hopefully the investigation will prove the Police followed correct guidelines and procedure as the public would expect, but, even if it doesn’t and the officer is thrown under the bus it still won’t be the case that Kabba was shot for being Black which is what utter morons like Abbot are trying to push. I hope she rots in hell. If I was driving that car in that way I’d have expected to be fired at.
Without commenting on the case itself , I’ve always wondered what happens to the cars in these situations. Someone (I think I read it was a hire car) owns the Q8 used here , but presumably the car will be impounded as evidence for a good number of years. So in this case , would the owners have to suck that up , or would they be compensated ?
It very much depends on the case, the evidence and the owner of the vehicle.
Generally PACE allows for the seizure of things in order to get the evidence, wet forensics, digital download of the telematics etc. If the evidence has then been acquired then often the vehicle can be returned as there’s no value in holding it.
I’ve also had a hire vehicle which needed specialist work to gain access to the telematics which was destructive in nature so it rendered the hire car useless. In that case I seized the car and then paid the hire car company the value for a replacement.
Generally PACE allows for the seizure of things in order to get the evidence, wet forensics, digital download of the telematics etc. If the evidence has then been acquired then often the vehicle can be returned as there’s no value in holding it.
I’ve also had a hire vehicle which needed specialist work to gain access to the telematics which was destructive in nature so it rendered the hire car useless. In that case I seized the car and then paid the hire car company the value for a replacement.
Having read this topic I am amazed at people’s perception of threat and deadly force.
Disclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
Disclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
Condado said:
Having read this topic I am amazed at people’s perception of threat and deadly force.
Disclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
Its the strength of the officers true belief and the perceived threat that will be tested in any hearing - not the colour of the victims skin - only the officer knows whether or not that played any part in their judgementDisclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
Condado said:
Having read this topic I am amazed at people’s perception of threat and deadly force.
Disclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
Unfortunately most people know and understand this but some 'media commentators' have an agenda/axe to grind. Disclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
Condado said:
Having read this topic I am amazed at people’s perception of threat and deadly force.
Disclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
Another one here having been there and done that. Disclosure first, retired police officer ex AFO (authorised firearms officer), I have drawn and pointed both a handgun and long barrelled weapon at numerous people on numerous occasions, never once had to fire the weapon.
WHY. Without exception everybody who had a weapon pointed at them and were shouted clear commands knew if needed they would be shot, UK police and for that matter most police in the world shoot to stop the perpetrator it just so happens body mass shots do tend to kill. Police do not and cannot shoot guns out of peoples hands, shoot them in the leg or arm etc.
I only know what I have seen in the press regarding this case, but people should stand in the shoes of a police officer facing multiple threats of violence on a daily basis, firearms officers who I know lots of have absolutely no intention to shoot let alone kill anyone in the course of duty.
This man was not stupid his previous convictions show he has knowledge of how the police operate, as stated the only person responsible for his death is him.
The officer who fired the fatal shot, I would assume had a true belief that he,a colleague or member of the public were about to be, or were in immediate danger from the actions of the driver of the car, whether it be from his driving his actions within the vehicle.
I have no doubt the officer will be scapegoated as due to political correctness/ interference call it what you will, someone will have to be seen to pay for the death of a young black man.
Does anyone truly believe this guy was shot because he was black, of course he wasn’t, he was shot because he was a threat in what ever form the officer truly believed. His colour is, was, and always will be irrelevant to the case. No matter what colour he was the same outcome would have happened.
We were trained to locate, contain and neutralise the threat.
That's what Kaba was when he failed to comply with instructions to stop the vehicle, a threat, nothing more.
His family having had access to the BWV are aware of this, hence they have stepped back from the media scrum.
I once was VERY close to being in the same situation, having taken up the first pull on my trigger, thank the stars that the guy decided he didn't want to take it further and allowed us to disarm him.
Only time in 9 years as an AFO / Firearms Bronze and I still remember it like yesterday
I feel for the Officer who is now subject to this enquiry, sadly their life will never be quite the same again.
edd1e said:
Without commenting on the case itself , I’ve always wondered what happens to the cars in these situations. Someone (I think I read it was a hire car) owns the Q8 used here , but presumably the car will be impounded as evidence for a good number of years. So in this case , would the owners have to suck that up , or would they be compensated ?
Had a driver at the minicab office I worked at who was driving some dealers around, plod stopped the car and nicked the driver and dealers.Driver released without charge(lucky).
Plod kept his car for over 6 months, iirc.
Im a civiian, so probably dont know the full story, however, the guy was obviously a bit naughty, the police took the action they felt justified at the time, dont forget they have split seconds to decide on the action, the world wont be a worse place without him.
I wouldnt be a policeman for all the money in the world, and i have family who are, especialy armed police, dont see why you would ever put yourself forward for that tbh.
In my view we, as a nation are way to soft on people who decide to live outside the law, it doesnt make a great society. he was a bad person for what ever reasons, but bad all the way. Saves paying for him to be in prison atleast
I wouldnt be a policeman for all the money in the world, and i have family who are, especialy armed police, dont see why you would ever put yourself forward for that tbh.
In my view we, as a nation are way to soft on people who decide to live outside the law, it doesnt make a great society. he was a bad person for what ever reasons, but bad all the way. Saves paying for him to be in prison atleast
I just reread the articles on this and Mayor Khan has a knack of saying the wrong things.
Instead of saying this matter is being investigated by the IOPC he had to say he was a young man expecting a family and his death has shocked the whole black community, in a long rambling statement.
Everytime anyone is shot, we have this circus, why officers volunteer is beyond me when they appear to be guilty unless they convince everyone of their innocence.
If someone was trying to drive away and into me I would want to be backed for doing what was required to stop this.
Instead of saying this matter is being investigated by the IOPC he had to say he was a young man expecting a family and his death has shocked the whole black community, in a long rambling statement.
Everytime anyone is shot, we have this circus, why officers volunteer is beyond me when they appear to be guilty unless they convince everyone of their innocence.
If someone was trying to drive away and into me I would want to be backed for doing what was required to stop this.
spaximus said:
I just reread the articles on this and Mayor Khan has a knack of saying the wrong things.
Instead of saying this matter is being investigated by the IOPC he had to say he was a young man expecting a family and his death has shocked the whole black community, in a long rambling statement.
Everytime anyone is shot, we have this circus, why officers volunteer is beyond me when they appear to be guilty unless they convince everyone of their innocence.
If someone was trying to drive away and into me I would want to be backed for doing what was required to stop this.
Like I have said previously people volunteer because 99.99999999999999% of the time a firearms officers job is much much better than the response team they have escaped from Instead of saying this matter is being investigated by the IOPC he had to say he was a young man expecting a family and his death has shocked the whole black community, in a long rambling statement.
Everytime anyone is shot, we have this circus, why officers volunteer is beyond me when they appear to be guilty unless they convince everyone of their innocence.
If someone was trying to drive away and into me I would want to be backed for doing what was required to stop this.
Trevatanus said:
untakenname said:
When there's a high profile shooting in America the Police now release the bodycam footage within hours of the event, not sure why this isn't mirrored with UK policing as it would stop speculation.
The family have seen it. Been much less vocal since then too, oddly.Something has gone very wrong in our society, I scanned through this and see some posters are Firearms officers and I think they must numerous times put themselves in such dangerous situations to protect the public yet looking in from the outside, it is elements within the establishment who seem to try to bring them down or undermine them. My limited experience of knife violence is enough for me but to be the people everyone turns to as a last resort yet when they have to act, the very powers that be are so fearful, they seemingly are willing to sacrifice them, is truly a failure of the system.
Bigends said:
Trevatanus said:
untakenname said:
When there's a high profile shooting in America the Police now release the bodycam footage within hours of the event, not sure why this isn't mirrored with UK policing as it would stop speculation.
The family have seen it. Been much less vocal since then too, oddly.Looks like he has been linked to a shooting a number of days prior to his death....
https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/gr...
https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/gr...
P0PC0RN said:
Looks like he has been linked to a shooting a number of days prior to his death....
https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/gr...
And there was me thinking he was a good lad who had turned his life aroundhttps://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/gr...
k Abbot will shut her pie hole nowGassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff