Fatal Accident: How long should road remain closed?
Discussion
Pedro25 said:
I've no idea what happened on the M1 last night J14, Northbound closed, Southbound closed from J15, radio said Air Ambulance was at the scene, I left Cobham in Surrey at 15.30, walked into my house in Teesside at 23.00, it was frustrating and tiring but at least I made it home, someone or some others didn't. Road closures are put in place for obvious reasons and I assume they remain closed for as long as the investigators deem necessary.
Sadly I imagine it was this.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cl4pzm6k8nyo
I got stuck on a the M1 some years ago after someone jumped off a bridge further up, I thought more of the person who jumped then my delays. I later found out it was this chap that jumped, and my feelings of sympathy did change somewhat.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4049062/J...
(sorry for the mail link)
StressedDave said:
I stopped doing AI 20+ years ago, but looking at that scene, I can understand why it's still shut 6 hours later. Just a few factors:
1. Dual carriageway with a grass central reservation. Lots to survey - I doubt the Police are using point cloud surveys so it's total station and bloke with a prism. You'd be surprised how inaccurate the OS Mastermap can be so sometimes you can't just drop your scene plan on it.
2. Someone has to do a fingertip search of that central reservation for trace evidence.
3. Entrapments or victim underneath vehicle but certified dead.
4. Waiting for hook - they've got to fight their way through the traffic to get there to recover the vehicles
5. Waiting for AI and vehicle examiner. You might want to interrogate the ECUs at the scene rather than worry about them losing their volatile memory after a day or so with the battery disconnected.
6. Waiting for photographer
7. Possibly waiting for CSE - if the AI isn't trusted to recover his own samples.
8. Waiting for SIO (Came after my time, but they're bound to be stuck in a meeting somewhere) and gathering the rest of the troops.
9. Waiting for everything to be out of the way so you can have a final mooch about and make sure you've not missed anything because after a few thousand disgruntled drivers pass through, you're not going to find something you need
1. Dual carriageway with a grass central reservation. Lots to survey - I doubt the Police are using point cloud surveys so it's total station and bloke with a prism. You'd be surprised how inaccurate the OS Mastermap can be so sometimes you can't just drop your scene plan on it.
2. Someone has to do a fingertip search of that central reservation for trace evidence.
3. Entrapments or victim underneath vehicle but certified dead.
4. Waiting for hook - they've got to fight their way through the traffic to get there to recover the vehicles
5. Waiting for AI and vehicle examiner. You might want to interrogate the ECUs at the scene rather than worry about them losing their volatile memory after a day or so with the battery disconnected.
6. Waiting for photographer
7. Possibly waiting for CSE - if the AI isn't trusted to recover his own samples.
8. Waiting for SIO (Came after my time, but they're bound to be stuck in a meeting somewhere) and gathering the rest of the troops.
9. Waiting for everything to be out of the way so you can have a final mooch about and make sure you've not missed anything because after a few thousand disgruntled drivers pass through, you're not going to find something you need
C n C said:
It takes as long as it takes. The police are not in the habit of closing down the road and extending the closure for fun.
From points 4 to 9, waiting becomes the significant factor.Hope that observation is acceptable.
Pedro25 said:
I've no idea what happened on the M1 last night J14, Northbound closed, Southbound closed from J15, radio said Air Ambulance was at the scene, I left Cobham in Surrey at 15.30, walked into my house in Teesside at 23.00, it was frustrating and tiring but at least I made it home, someone or some others didn't. Road closures are put in place for obvious reasons and I assume they remain closed for as long as the investigators deem necessary.
Northamptonshire Police said:
Witnesses are being sought after a fatal road traffic collision occurred on the northbound carriageway of the M1 motorway yesterday afternoon (Wednesday, November 22).
At about 2.05pm, the driver of a white Mercedes Sprinter car transporter collided with the central reservation between junctions 14 and 15, for unknown reasons. Sadly, the driver – a man in his 40s – died at the scene.
As a result of the collision, one of the vehicles being transported – a BMW – became detached and collided with a bridge. Fortunately, no other vehicles were involved.
Officers would like to hear from anyone who may have witnessed the incident or who may have dash cam footage of the collision, or who may have seen the car transporter travelling in the area prior to the incident.
Anyone with information is asked to email CollisionAppeals@northants.police.uk or call the Drivewatch Hotline on 0800 174615, or Northamptonshire Police on 101.
Please quote incident number 23000722663 when providing any information to make sure it gets to the right person as quickly as possible.
At about 2.05pm, the driver of a white Mercedes Sprinter car transporter collided with the central reservation between junctions 14 and 15, for unknown reasons. Sadly, the driver – a man in his 40s – died at the scene.
As a result of the collision, one of the vehicles being transported – a BMW – became detached and collided with a bridge. Fortunately, no other vehicles were involved.
Officers would like to hear from anyone who may have witnessed the incident or who may have dash cam footage of the collision, or who may have seen the car transporter travelling in the area prior to the incident.
Anyone with information is asked to email CollisionAppeals@northants.police.uk or call the Drivewatch Hotline on 0800 174615, or Northamptonshire Police on 101.
Please quote incident number 23000722663 when providing any information to make sure it gets to the right person as quickly as possible.
From a closed thread - this topic may be taboo:
Leveret said:
After a collision apparently involving only around four small vehicles and one fatality, the M-way was closed in both directions for hours and hours on end. Goodness knows how many tens of thousands of people were inconvenienced, some probably seriously. Why is this tolerated? Was this yet another example of the effect of this country's paralysing and ludicrously expensive jurocracy?
bigothunter said:
From a closed thread - this topic may be taboo:
If your family member was the fatality then I guess you don't really give two hoots about tens of thousands of people being inconvenienced.Leveret said:
After a collision apparently involving only around four small vehicles and one fatality, the M-way was closed in both directions for hours and hours on end. Goodness knows how many tens of thousands of people were inconvenienced, some probably seriously. Why is this tolerated? Was this yet another example of the effect of this country's paralysing and ludicrously expensive jurocracy?
Leveret said:
After a collision apparently involving only around four small vehicles and one fatality, the M-way was closed in both directions for hours and hours on end. Goodness knows how many tens of thousands of people were inconvenienced, some probably seriously. Why is this tolerated? Was this yet another example of the effect of this country's paralysing and ludicrously expensive jurocracy?
Feckin' idiot!As long as it takes to fully investigate the fatality to the satisfaction of the families concerned as you would expect if it were your loved ones involved.
A couple of years back, I was involved (as a passenger) in a rather unpleasant accident with a biker and subsequent rear-ending by another car. His fault, cutting a blind corner and hit us head on.
The air ambulance and investigation took around 4 hours, during which time the road was shut and we were not allowed to move.
Said investigation found that my driver was completely blameless, no fault on our insurance etc. Without that investigation, the consequences for us could have been much different and very serious, and they were bad enough as it was. It's gotta be done, because the consequences of being at fault in a serious accident are very serious indeed.
The air ambulance and investigation took around 4 hours, during which time the road was shut and we were not allowed to move.
Said investigation found that my driver was completely blameless, no fault on our insurance etc. Without that investigation, the consequences for us could have been much different and very serious, and they were bad enough as it was. It's gotta be done, because the consequences of being at fault in a serious accident are very serious indeed.
Not sure for what purpose this thread has been bumped but as the OP I will add/comment:
Several local councillors made sure they got press coverage a day or two after the accident, condemning the accident and general driving standards on this section of Stanningley Road.
The council has trimmed back/decimated the vegetation in the central reservation for approx 1/2 mile in each direction from the accident site.
New speed cameras have been installed.
The bus shelter - which was completely destroyed - has not been replaced (yet?)
The driver has not - to the best of my knowledge - appeared in court, despite what must be an absolute cut and dried case of causing death by dangerous driving.
The section of road after the accident site and not covered by cameras still has people driving at speeds clearly in excess of the 40mph limit (and probably in the 60-70mph zone as measured by my eye with nothing but age and experience to judge said speeds.)
Several local councillors made sure they got press coverage a day or two after the accident, condemning the accident and general driving standards on this section of Stanningley Road.
The council has trimmed back/decimated the vegetation in the central reservation for approx 1/2 mile in each direction from the accident site.
New speed cameras have been installed.
The bus shelter - which was completely destroyed - has not been replaced (yet?)
The driver has not - to the best of my knowledge - appeared in court, despite what must be an absolute cut and dried case of causing death by dangerous driving.
The section of road after the accident site and not covered by cameras still has people driving at speeds clearly in excess of the 40mph limit (and probably in the 60-70mph zone as measured by my eye with nothing but age and experience to judge said speeds.)
SydneyBridge said:
Exactly, once the road is open all evidence is lost for good.
It has to take as long as it takes
What a futile sentence! In this particular case, why on earth did it take as long as it did? Why all lanes - on both sides - closed? And yes, even if it were my 'loved one', I would still be askking the same questions about what seems to be a barn door obvious uncomplicated collision.It has to take as long as it takes
Leveret said:
What a futile sentence! In this particular case, why on earth did it take as long as it did? Why all lanes - on both sides - closed? And yes, even if it were my 'loved one', I would still be askking the same questions about what seems to be a barn door obvious uncomplicated collision.
Its impossible for anyone to say why it was closed for as long as it was unless the lead investigating officer is on here...It's not done for fun.
LosingGrip said:
Its impossible for anyone to say why it was closed for as long as it was unless the lead investigating officer is on here...
It's not done for fun.
+1It's not done for fun.
They're acutely aware of the pressure to reopen the road.
What has to be done has to be done - they're not sitting around scratching their parts and drinking tea.
Leveret said:
SydneyBridge said:
Exactly, once the road is open all evidence is lost for good.
It has to take as long as it takes
What a futile sentence! In this particular case, why on earth did it take as long as it did? Why all lanes - on both sides - closed? And yes, even if it were my 'loved one', I would still be askking the same questions about what seems to be a barn door obvious uncomplicated collision.It has to take as long as it takes
Dixy said:
The needs of the many out way the needs of the few.
It would be interesting to know the frequency of action being taken and if anyone ever feels justice has been done.
Off the top of my head, in a third of cases where there's a road traffic fatality it results in a prosecution. It would be interesting to know the frequency of action being taken and if anyone ever feels justice has been done.
Leveret said:
SydneyBridge said:
Exactly, once the road is open all evidence is lost for good.
It has to take as long as it takes
What a futile sentence! In this particular case, why on earth did it take as long as it did? Why all lanes - on both sides - closed? And yes, even if it were my 'loved one', I would still be askking the same questions about what seems to be a barn door obvious uncomplicated collision.It has to take as long as it takes
Bodies, body parts and other evidence doesn't always stay in its own lane you know.
I'd hazard a guess that it was the incident linked below that Leveret is referring to:
https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/04/accident-today-leav...
Police had been chasing one of the vehicles involved (a van) but had called off the pursuit just before the collision.
https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/04/accident-today-leav...
Police had been chasing one of the vehicles involved (a van) but had called off the pursuit just before the collision.
bigot said:
From a closed thread - this topic may be taboo:
Moronic post is moronic. Leveret said:
After a collision apparently involving only around four small vehicles and one fatality, the M-way was closed in both directions for hours and hours on end. Goodness knows how many tens of thousands of people were inconvenienced, some probably seriously. Why is this tolerated? Was this yet another example of the effect of this country's paralysing and ludicrously expensive jurocracy?
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