Speed Awareness Course
Discussion
Ken_Code said:
bigothunter said:
So you believe that breaking the speed limit, no matter how unreasonable, is intrinsically wrong?
That's a very simplistic viewpoint.
It’s wrong in the eyes of the state who are the ones who set the rules around who gets a driving licence.That's a very simplistic viewpoint.
Yeah, definitely eyes rolled and muttering on BH's course. 
You are absolutely free to challenge the state - but as part of taking the SAC option you are pleading guilty to the offence and taking an easy way out.
Don't want to plead guilty? Don't like the limit? Feel you were entrapped? Think the equipment is dodgy? <insert whatever liberterian\contrarian viewpooint you like here>?
Feel free to take your challenge to court.
Anyway, fun though ths was I'm full now, I won't be taking any more bait.
You are absolutely free to challenge the state - but as part of taking the SAC option you are pleading guilty to the offence and taking an easy way out.
Don't want to plead guilty? Don't like the limit? Feel you were entrapped? Think the equipment is dodgy? <insert whatever liberterian\contrarian viewpooint you like here>?
Feel free to take your challenge to court.
Anyway, fun though ths was I'm full now, I won't be taking any more bait.
eldar said:
Super Sonic said:
bigothunter said:
We were debating speed limits not SACs.
In the context af SACs, on a thread titled 'Speed awareness Course'bigothunter said:
Authoritarian demand from the state for obedience from its subjects. Some are willing to comply without question. Others are more critical.
Civilization comes from everybody complying with a general set of rules. To disregard the generally accepted set of rules results in lawlessness and eventually anarchy. Speed limits may not be liked, but, what harm comes from sticking to them within a reasonable amount, such that no penalties are incurred? The penalties for flouting them are well known, why incur them unnecessarily? First it is speed limit rules being ignored, what next?MustangGT said:
Civilization comes from everybody complying with a general set of rules. To disregard the generally accepted set of rules results in lawlessness and eventually anarchy. Speed limits may not be liked, but, what harm comes from sticking to them within a reasonable amount, such that no penalties are incurred? The penalties for flouting them are well known, why incur them unnecessarily? First it is speed limit rules being ignored, what next?
When so many speed limits lack credibility, contempt for the law is bolstered. Divergence of law from common opinion erodes the fabric of society. Bad law encourages lawlessness.bigothunter said:
When so many speed limits lack credibility, contempt for the law is bolstered. Divergence of law from common opinion degrades the fabric of society. Bad law encourages lawlessness.
Quite. Apparently the number of cars uninsured, on false plates or with unlicensed drivers is increasing as it saves money on ved and insurance and is largely immune to cameras.Given the paucity of proper traffic police and seemingly generous sentencing, it's not hard to understand.
I’ve just contributed £88 to the coffers of my local authority/police force, to go and learn the dismerits of traveling hugely in excess of the speed limit in a modern, well serviced BMW, on an largely empty motorway at 10.30 on a dry and bright Sunday morning. I’m eternally thankful, that this country has abandoned Capital Punishment and that flogging isn’t an approved punishment and that worthy souls are prepared to sit in vans on motorway bridges to bring reckless miscreants such as myself to justice, for the heinous crime of traveling at 80mph. 80 bloody miles per hour - seriously? It’s a wonder that I could still breathe at that speed!!
Hopefully, I’ll manage to say nothing during my SAC and can walk away chastised and probably bitter about how the law works in this country. I might even pop into a small shop on the way home, pick up a few items and walk out without paying, because the chance of anyone doing anything about it, much less the probability of the police coming to see me are so slim, that it isn’t worth considering it as a risk!
Yes I broke the speed limit and yes I know that the law was broken and the law requires me to pay for my error, but I do think that something in the system is broken, when small shops can be raided with impunity by known offenders, but because I tax and insure my car and have correct and clean number plates, I just have to pay up and shut up, because the alternative will just cost me more.
Hopefully, I’ll manage to say nothing during my SAC and can walk away chastised and probably bitter about how the law works in this country. I might even pop into a small shop on the way home, pick up a few items and walk out without paying, because the chance of anyone doing anything about it, much less the probability of the police coming to see me are so slim, that it isn’t worth considering it as a risk!
Yes I broke the speed limit and yes I know that the law was broken and the law requires me to pay for my error, but I do think that something in the system is broken, when small shops can be raided with impunity by known offenders, but because I tax and insure my car and have correct and clean number plates, I just have to pay up and shut up, because the alternative will just cost me more.
MustangGT said:
Civilization comes from everybody complying with a general set of rules. To disregard the generally accepted set of rules results in lawlessness and eventually anarchy. Speed limits may not be liked, but, what harm comes from sticking to them within a reasonable amount, such that no penalties are incurred? The penalties for flouting them are well known, why incur them unnecessarily? First it is speed limit rules being ignored, what next?
Civilisation has been going a lot longer than speed cameras.Take 'rules' to the extreme and you get 'everybody must go to the shower block' - and you know how that ended.
A page six Godwin. Not bad going.
I've found the speed awareness courses I've done a timely reminder re limits.
Like most training I'd rather not be at, it's best approached with an open mind and a closed mouth. You can hold your nose too if you like, but the fact is you're engaging with the scheme and admitting fault by accepting the course. So you've passed up your chance to stick it to the man and argue your cause already.
If you're *that* fantastic a driver how did you get caught?? Fully aware and alert at all times surely, in a car with brakes and tyres capable of scrubbing off 20.ph in an instant? Flash flash whoops.
In my cases, 77 on the A11 at 7am Sunday morning, a camera I've also triggered legally deep into 3 figures whilst doing training runs under supervision, and 35.1 6am on a Sunday morning on the average speed cameras on the A40 which are there to protect failing expansion joints. Both felt unfair at the time but hey, I got caught. Still never had points.
I've found the speed awareness courses I've done a timely reminder re limits.
Like most training I'd rather not be at, it's best approached with an open mind and a closed mouth. You can hold your nose too if you like, but the fact is you're engaging with the scheme and admitting fault by accepting the course. So you've passed up your chance to stick it to the man and argue your cause already.
If you're *that* fantastic a driver how did you get caught?? Fully aware and alert at all times surely, in a car with brakes and tyres capable of scrubbing off 20.ph in an instant? Flash flash whoops.
In my cases, 77 on the A11 at 7am Sunday morning, a camera I've also triggered legally deep into 3 figures whilst doing training runs under supervision, and 35.1 6am on a Sunday morning on the average speed cameras on the A40 which are there to protect failing expansion joints. Both felt unfair at the time but hey, I got caught. Still never had points.
WeirdNeville said:
A page six Godwin. Not bad going.
I've found the speed awareness courses I've done a timely reminder re limits.
Like most training I'd rather not be at, it's best approached with an open mind and a closed mouth. You can hold your nose too if you like, but the fact is you're engaging with the scheme and admitting fault by accepting the course. So you've passed up your chance to stick it to the man and argue your cause already.
If you're *that* fantastic a driver how did you get caught?? Fully aware and alert at all times surely, in a car with brakes and tyres capable of scrubbing off 20.ph in an instant? Flash flash whoops.
In my cases, 77 on the A11 at 7am Sunday morning, a camera I've also triggered legally deep into 3 figures whilst doing training runs under supervision, and 35.1 6am on a Sunday morning on the average speed cameras on the A40 which are there to protect failing expansion joints. Both felt unfair at the time but hey, I got caught. Still never had points.
As you've done more than one, they can't be that effectiveI've found the speed awareness courses I've done a timely reminder re limits.
Like most training I'd rather not be at, it's best approached with an open mind and a closed mouth. You can hold your nose too if you like, but the fact is you're engaging with the scheme and admitting fault by accepting the course. So you've passed up your chance to stick it to the man and argue your cause already.
If you're *that* fantastic a driver how did you get caught?? Fully aware and alert at all times surely, in a car with brakes and tyres capable of scrubbing off 20.ph in an instant? Flash flash whoops.
In my cases, 77 on the A11 at 7am Sunday morning, a camera I've also triggered legally deep into 3 figures whilst doing training runs under supervision, and 35.1 6am on a Sunday morning on the average speed cameras on the A40 which are there to protect failing expansion joints. Both felt unfair at the time but hey, I got caught. Still never had points.
Sigmamark7 said:
I’ve just contributed £88 to the coffers of my local authority/police force, to go and learn the dismerits of traveling hugely in excess of the speed limit in a modern, well serviced BMW, on an largely empty motorway at 10.30 on a dry and bright Sunday morning. I’m eternally thankful, that this country has abandoned Capital Punishment and that flogging isn’t an approved punishment and that worthy souls are prepared to sit in vans on motorway bridges to bring reckless miscreants such as myself to justice, for the heinous crime of traveling at 80mph. 80 bloody miles per hour - seriously? It’s a wonder that I could still breathe at that speed!!
Hopefully, I’ll manage to say nothing during my SAC and can walk away chastised and probably bitter about how the law works in this country. I might even pop into a small shop on the way home, pick up a few items and walk out without paying, because the chance of anyone doing anything about it, much less the probability of the police coming to see me are so slim, that it isn’t worth considering it as a risk!
Yes I broke the speed limit and yes I know that the law was broken and the law requires me to pay for my error, but I do think that something in the system is broken, when small shops can be raided with impunity by known offenders, but because I tax and insure my car and have correct and clean number plates, I just have to pay up and shut up, because the alternative will just cost me more.
You've been a very naughty boy Hopefully, I’ll manage to say nothing during my SAC and can walk away chastised and probably bitter about how the law works in this country. I might even pop into a small shop on the way home, pick up a few items and walk out without paying, because the chance of anyone doing anything about it, much less the probability of the police coming to see me are so slim, that it isn’t worth considering it as a risk!
Yes I broke the speed limit and yes I know that the law was broken and the law requires me to pay for my error, but I do think that something in the system is broken, when small shops can be raided with impunity by known offenders, but because I tax and insure my car and have correct and clean number plates, I just have to pay up and shut up, because the alternative will just cost me more.
I've always thought that if you're going to speed then you may as well do it properly like my brother in law did years ago. I was sat alongside him in his Astra GSi and he got radared at 84mph in a 30mph area racing his mate in his Astra GTE! We had 3 Volvo T5's come chasing after us, and the copper showed us the radar gun showing the 84mph!
They both got banned for a year and fined £600, and they had to take an extended retest too. I don't think my 35mph in a 30mph area was trying hard enough really in comparison.
They both got banned for a year and fined £600, and they had to take an extended retest too. I don't think my 35mph in a 30mph area was trying hard enough really in comparison.
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