Help with my Late Fathers Static Caravan

[LimmerickLad]

James_N said:

Exactly this and of course at this moment in time, site owner is unaware that my dad died in debt, so is unaware there is no money in his estate.

My dad had a loan outstanding at the bank for £8k. On his death, they instructed debt collectors (I assume this is a standard issue when an account holder dies and funds are owed). Debt collectors asked me to fill in an assets and liabilities form, which I did, and they replied stating they acknowledge receipt of the form, and I won't be hearing from them again in respect of the debt and they would transfer the issue back to the bank (I haven't heard from the bank since, so I assume it's been written off)

I think we have an easy get out at the moment. I can send him a recorded delivery letter (after I've been down at the weekend to remove some possessions out of it!), sending him proof of me being executor (not my dad's partner as I think he assumes), and proof of all the debt collectors correspondence to prove lack of cash/ assets.

I wouldn't think there is much more he can do? Me and my dad's partner surely can't be liable and there is no money to pay from the estate so he will have to deal with it himself.

I may be missing something here but isn't the caravan the Estate's asset?

[Bill]

LimmerickLad said:

I may be missing something here but isn't the caravan the Estate's asset?

Good point, best tell the bank and let them sort it out.

[LimmerickLad]

Bill said:

LimmerickLad said:

I may be missing something here but isn't the caravan the Estate's asset?

Good point, best tell the bank and let them sort it out.

Being the Executor has certain legal requirements but I am sure he would be aware of this?

[Janluke]

We've have/had several statics over the years and both commission on sales and ownership transfer fees are fairly normal but, along with other charges, should be listed( often updated every year)

There are a couple of industry bodies that may be able to help with advice.

National Caravan Council (NCC) and British Holiday & Home Parks Association (BH&HPA)

[James_N]

Bill said:

Good point, best tell the bank and let them sort it out.

It is the estates asset. there are no loans on it and as said, it's pretty worthless in terms of a sale (I could probably sell it for £1k but how much does it cost to move a static nowadays?) More than that I can bet, so who will buy it!

There is no money in the estate so all I can do is inform him of this surely

[James_N]

I've spoken to my dad's partner. She has no interest in keeping it or paying expenses associated with it so I'll be going down there, clearing most of the stuff out of it, then I'll ve sending him a letter (with proof of estate debt) that the estate can't pay what he's asking and to do as he sees fit with it.

My dad's partner said its caused her some stress wondering what the hell we are going to do with it so this seems like the best course of action I think.

[Bill]

Walking away seems like the best plan all round.

James_N said:

It is the estates asset. there are no loans on it and as said, it's pretty worthless in terms of a sale (I could probably sell it for £1k but how much does it cost to move a static nowadays?) More than that I can bet, so who will buy it!

There is no money in the estate so all I can do is inform him of this surely

My post was a bit tongue in cheek - the farmer is being an arse, the bank is owed money; let them fight over the van.

[borcy]

Sounds like the best plan.

[r3g]

James_N said:

It is the estates asset. there are no loans on it and as said, it's pretty worthless in terms of a sale (I could probably sell it for £1k but how much does it cost to move a static nowadays?) More than that I can bet, so who will buy it!

I have some experience in this on the transport side and I think a reality check may be needed in light of all the comments saying sell it om ebay / gumtree etc. The reality is that you can't sell these things second hand for love nor money unless it's staying on the site and comes with a lengthy lease / ground rent paid up. The cost to move them is astronomical, even for a short distance, as the caravan dimensions combined with the typically awful access for large vehicles means the transport bill is often multiples of what the caravan is worth. It's common for them to need a crane (££££) over a wall or hedgerow to a lane on the other side as there's no space to get the truck to the pitch, wheel the caravan out, swing it round to the back end of the truck so that it can be winched on.

Further, the transport company won't even entertain the job until YOU have settled all debts and charges with the site owner, and that would need to be verified with the site owner as well, not just your word that everything is in order. It's happened so so many times that the truck has turned up on site to remove a caravan and the site owner has appeared and placed vehicles / equipment in the way preventing access, and then the inevitable he said / she said arguments start between the caravan owner and the site owner and before you know it a whole day has been wasted and the job gets cancelled.

There are also other factors to consider, such as the condition of the caravan itself. Many of the older ones are rotten from damp in the floor and the wall corners, often without the occupants knowing. This has a high risk of going wrong if it needs to be lifted out. It can and does happen where the floor falls apart so you'll probably find some companies won't be interested if it's old or they will quote "FRO" money to do it.

The static caravan site business is very well stitched up. As mentioned up thread by somebody, there are always charges to move on and off sites imposed by the site owners, and there are always charges and restrictions on selling too. Most sites will only let you buy a static from them to use on their site - you cannot bring your own in, or, if they do allow you, there will be a substantial fee attached. Similarly, you can't sell your static caravan to anyone but them, and they will of course offer basically pocket change for it because that's the only option you have. The rare sites that will that you sell externally and allow it to be transported off-site will have a substantial fee to do so, again making it economically unviable in most cases.

When you take the above into account, you can see why there's no market for them on the selling sites, because the only people who will be genuinely interested are those who are wanting to site it on their own land and that pool of people is single digits.

Reading everything you've written I'd say you've only got 2 (realistic) choices :

- pay him the £500 fee he wants to keep your friend in situ if you are not able to renegotiate it lower or have it cancelled / waived altogether. If there are no other hidden / unexpected charges beyond the £1500 ground rent then imo it's the lesser of the 2 evils as your friend won't want the upheavel at her age of having to move, and it would probably be expected of you to do most of that for her. £1500 ground rent is cheap for a place with connected services. They are typically double or triple that at other sites now, although those generally will be 'proper' sites and not just a plot on a farm field.

- find your friend a rental place and walk away, leaving the caravan for the farmer to deal with. There's absolutely no point in trying to sell it or move it. It will end up costing you far far more than what it's worth, not to mention the hassle.

If she's struggling to find £500 for the fee then I'd say that finding a private rental is a non-starter as you won't even get a bedsit for that per month in that part of the country. If she can't live with you and has no relatives where she could move to then the caravan is her only option and so you need to be extremely careful how 'shouty' you and her get with the farmer's demands and arguing over nonexistent contracts otherwise this could backfire spectacularly. It sounds like you really need to stay 'on side' with the farmer for this work out anything remotely favourably, even if you hate him.

[OutInTheShed]

r3g said:

....

There are also other factors to consider, such as the condition of the caravan itself. ...........

Like is it dry enough to be flammable?

More seriously, some of these things have some scrap value in aluminium, also some fixtures and fittings.
There are a few websites wanting to help you sell your caravan for scrap.

[James_N]

r3g said:

I have some experience in this on the transport side.....

Thank you for your long and informative post.

I did suspect moving it was totally out of the question. My dad's partner actually had a static moved around 14 years ago and it was £1k back then so I didn't think it would be worth while.

She has her own place. This caravan was just a bolthole - a change of scenery half an hour away for some sanctuary but luckily she has seen sense and wants rid.

So I'll be clearing it out at the weekend and writing the site owner a nice letter explaining the circumstances.

Much appreciate everyone's opinions on this, which were along the same thoughts as ours.

I'll update when I get a response from the farm owner.

[r3g]

James_N said:

r3g said:

I have some experience in this on the transport side.....

Thank you for your long and informative post.

I did suspect moving it was totally out of the question. My dad's partner actually had a static moved around 14 years ago and it was £1k back then so I didn't think it would be worth while.

She has her own place. This caravan was just a bolthole - a change of scenery half an hour away for some sanctuary but luckily she has seen sense and wants rid.

So I'll be clearing it out at the weekend and writing the site owner a nice letter explaining the circumstances.

Much appreciate everyone's opinions on this, which were along the same thoughts as ours.

I'll update when I get a response from the farm owner.

Welcome . Re 3rd para, well in that case it's a no-brainer - she go back home and wash her hands of this aggro. Just not worth it over a £1k static especially with the way the famer and wife are behaving. I've been through similar with my own mother after she died. She had a static on a Wyldecrest site and they were impossible to reason with when trying to sort out her estate.

Personally I would be doing the 'removal' work as discreetly as possible, preferably when the farmer and wife are out. Given what you've said about him inventing various fees for things, I can see him inventing a 'leaving site' fee and a 'disposal' fee for the caravan if he clocks what you're doing and may prevent you from leaving site unless you pay him as he'll know the caravan isn't worth anything.

Edited by r3g on Wednesday 3rd April 21:18

[Pit Pony]

All these people saying a static is worthless.

Are you sure? If its dry and functional, it's worth at least £6k retail. If you let the farmer take ownership, he will try to maximise his profit by selling it on.

Most self-builds end up with an old static on site at some point.

I'd offer it to the bank and tell them that the loan was used to buy it, so they are welcome to it.

[sugerbear]

Hold on, if there is no contract in place how can the site owner make ANY charges to the estate. I wouldn't be paying anything, i would just offer to remove it if it can be sold.

If the site owner refuses to allow the removal then i would be heading to the police or small claim court to recoup any loss.

[soupdragon1]

sugerbear said:

Hold on, if there is no contract in place how can the site owner make ANY charges to the estate. I wouldn't be paying anything, i would just offer to remove it if it can be sold.

If the site owner refuses to allow the removal then i would be heading to the police or small claim court to recoup any loss.

It's private property and the typical line is that they will bring the van to the site entrance ready to be collected (and charge a fee) safely disconnect the services (and charge a fee)

Even sites registered with the industry bodies mentioned earlier are able to make these charges, as well as take a cut of the private sale price.

Consumer protection is very low in this industry.

Perhaps trying to leverage the lack of contract with the farmer might be worth a shot as you mention, but I would think twice about taking it further. I guess it all depends on the appetite for the battle?

If no contract, maybe the farmer owns the van then? Is there proof of ownership? In light of no formal documents, verbal or implied terms may be used?

What you say in your post is absolutely logical and fair in the minds of reasonable people, it's just that I'm not sure the consumer protection is there. Refusal of a truck to come into private property and potentially damage ground or property is a hurdle straight away, and the farmer probably had that right unfortunately.

[James_N]

soupdragon1 said:

It's private property and the typical line is that they will bring the van to the site entrance ready to be collected (and charge a fee) safely disconnect the services (and charge a fee)

Even sites registered with the industry bodies mentioned earlier are able to make these charges, as well as take a cut of the private sale price.

Consumer protection is very low in this industry.
.

I think that's what happens here. He's basically got everyone by the balls who has a static there. They either pay the yearly fee to keep it there, or if they want to sell it they have two options:

1) Sell to the farmer for 50p, if the caravan is new enough that he can make some wedge out of it, that is, or if not....

2) you can arrange transport yourself and pay for it by the farmer will charge a hefty disconnection fee and you will have the added costs of paying for the transport, which as said above is $$

Got you either way in terms of a big bill but we have the get out that it's part of a deceased estate which has no money to move it or dispose of it.

Me and my dad's partner can't afford to shift it either (and no matter which way you look at it, you can't get blood out of a stone!)

As for it being worth 6k, I'm not sure. It's not in bad nick inside. My father and partner even lived in it for 3 years before getting their own place so it's pretty well insulated and fit for someone but it's pretty old so just not sure he would be interested.

Thanks for all the replies

[The Gauge]

sugerbear said:

If the site owner refuses to allow the removal then i would be heading to the police or small claim court to recoup any loss.

It's a civil contract so not criminal, nothing to do with police so that means getting solicitors involved £££ which isn't really an option.

Personally I'd collect any possessions without the farmer knowing, then just walk away from it without any correspondence with the farmer whatsoever. I wouldn't be writing to him pr speaking to him as there doesn't seem to be any obligation from the OP to the farmer. The caravan is on the farmers land, the estate wants nothing to do with it, there's nothing else to be said/done.

Edited by The Gauge on Thursday 4th April 08:35

[over_the_hill]

James_N said:

As for it being worth 6k, I'm not sure. It's not in bad nick inside. My father and partner even lived in it for 3 years before getting their own place so it's pretty well insulated and fit for someone but it's pretty old so just not sure he would be interested.

Thanks for all the replies

As Executor you have some control over the estate.
If you can, it might be an idea to get a few photos and contact a few local estate agents with a view to selling it on.
Bewdley is a very popular area as a West Mids weekend bolt hole and these sorts of places can cost very good money.
You might be surprised and could end up with a few quid out of it for your dad's partner or whoever.

[James_N]

The Gauge said:

It's a civil contract so not criminal, nothing to do with police so that means getting solicitors involved £££ which isn't really an option.

Personally I'd collect any possessions without the farmer knowing, then just walk away from it without any correspondence with the farmer whatsoever. I wouldn't be writing to him pr speaking to him as there doesn't seem to be any obligation from the OP to the farmer. The caravan is on the farmers land, the estate wants nothing to do with it, there's nothing else to be said/done.

Edited by The Gauge on Thursday 4th April 08:35

I would do that but he has both mine and my dad's partners address, so I thought it polite to at least send a letter explaining the situation. He clearly thinks my dad's partner is inheriting the caravan, hence the change of ownership bill. When that isn't actually correct so I thought better to set the record straight then he knows where he stands and he can do as he wishes with the caravan!

[K4sper]

Who actually owns this caravan? Presumably someone must have / must be about to inherit it? Maybe it is OP if dad died intestate? It belongs to someone and it is currently sitting on some third party's land, so I'm not sure that OP, whether as executor or new owner, can just throw their hands up and walk away...