Appealing a council Bus Gate PCN?
Discussion
The police won't issue me a crime number unless there's a second incident with the cloned car. I'll wait a few day to see if I get any more fines and then I'll start the appeals procedure with the council. Its now one of those rare occasions where I actually want to receive more fines as that provides me with more evidence.
The Gauge said:
The police won't issue me a crime number unless there's a second incident with the cloned car. I'll wait a few day to see if I get any more fines and then I'll start the appeals procedure with the council. Its now one of those rare occasions where I actually want to receive more fines as that provides me with more evidence.
That seems utterly ridiculous, how much does a crime number cost them FFS ? outnumbered said:
That seems utterly ridiculous, how much does a crime number cost them FFS ?
Their reply stated that they regard one cloned fine as a possible mistake by the issuer!!I guess they have to be cautious as everyone would try to get off with fines if all you had to do was get a crime number.
Copying or cloning a registration plate in itself isn't a crime, it's what you do when using that plate displayed on a road that counts.
If purely driving then it's usually an offence of failing to display correct registration plate/ excise offence, it only becomes a crime when used in commission of a criminal offence, eg driving off without paying for fuel then it could be classed as going equipped for theft dependent on the modus operandi.
It's different if your plates are physically removed from your vehicle and then displayed on another car as that is straightforward theft and would generate a crime number.
In the OP's circumstances the reporting of his plates being cloned should create an Police incident number, he needs to quote this in reply to contesting the penalty notice together with his suggested photographs of his vehicle identifying the differences he has noted.
The Police operator should ensure the registration is updated on the PNC so it will activate ANPR cameras and patrolling officers interest.
Until the offending vehicle is located the OP can expect to get pulled over to check his is the genuine car, so it's advisable to have the V5 to hand to confirm VIN checks, the bus lane enforcement may take time but I would not expect them to proceed and I certainly wouldn't be sending them any money.
If purely driving then it's usually an offence of failing to display correct registration plate/ excise offence, it only becomes a crime when used in commission of a criminal offence, eg driving off without paying for fuel then it could be classed as going equipped for theft dependent on the modus operandi.
It's different if your plates are physically removed from your vehicle and then displayed on another car as that is straightforward theft and would generate a crime number.
In the OP's circumstances the reporting of his plates being cloned should create an Police incident number, he needs to quote this in reply to contesting the penalty notice together with his suggested photographs of his vehicle identifying the differences he has noted.
The Police operator should ensure the registration is updated on the PNC so it will activate ANPR cameras and patrolling officers interest.
Until the offending vehicle is located the OP can expect to get pulled over to check his is the genuine car, so it's advisable to have the V5 to hand to confirm VIN checks, the bus lane enforcement may take time but I would not expect them to proceed and I certainly wouldn't be sending them any money.
Kevin-2g5x2 said:
In the OP's circumstances the reporting of his plates being cloned should create an Police incident number.
Sadly they wont even create an incident...[i]Evening, If this is a one off penalty notice you will need to dispute this with the issuing company as this may have been a error with the imaging.
If this has happened more than once please provide the further details and we can look at creating an incident[/i]
Edited by The Gauge on Thursday 11th April 16:35
Aunty Pasty said:
Call the police on their non emergency number. Get a crime reference number stating the evidence you've stated here.
Next use the crime reference number in the appeal against the council. They will not initially budge but submit pictures of your own car as evidence.
I did something similar a long time back and it looked like the council was going to go through with it but pulled out in the last few days.
This is absolutely the right advice. Ignore the boxes and write explaining why this wasn’t you. State that you are prepared, if necessary to make a Statutory Declaration at court (costs you nothing). DO NOT PAY anything. If you lie when making the Stat Dec you face two years custody. This should not be your problemNext use the crime reference number in the appeal against the council. They will not initially budge but submit pictures of your own car as evidence.
I did something similar a long time back and it looked like the council was going to go through with it but pulled out in the last few days.
Some good news...
Got a letter today from the council saying they agree with my appeal and the PCN has been cancelled.
Some bad news..
In the same post was another envelope from the council with another PCN for a different bus lane!!! This time it's a completely different car to mine so should be easy to appeal. This could go on for a long time.
Got a letter today from the council saying they agree with my appeal and the PCN has been cancelled.
Some bad news..
In the same post was another envelope from the council with another PCN for a different bus lane!!! This time it's a completely different car to mine so should be easy to appeal. This could go on for a long time.
The Gauge said:
Some good news...
Got a letter today from the council saying they agree with my appeal and the PCN has been cancelled.
Some bad news..
In the same post was another envelope from the council with another PCN for a different bus lane!!! This time it's a completely different car to mine so should be easy to appeal. This could go on for a long time.
Cancel your insurance and SORN your car. They won't be using your reg for very long Got a letter today from the council saying they agree with my appeal and the PCN has been cancelled.
Some bad news..
In the same post was another envelope from the council with another PCN for a different bus lane!!! This time it's a completely different car to mine so should be easy to appeal. This could go on for a long time.
The Gauge said:
outnumbered said:
That seems utterly ridiculous, how much does a crime number cost them FFS ?
Their reply stated that they regard one cloned fine as a possible mistake by the issuer!!I guess they have to be cautious as everyone would try to get off with fines if all you had to do was get a crime number.
The Gauge said:
Some good news...
Got a letter today from the council saying they agree with my appeal and the PCN has been cancelled.
Some bad news..
In the same post was another envelope from the council with another PCN for a different bus lane!!! This time it's a completely different car to mine so should be easy to appeal. This could go on for a long time.
Yep, although having had one instance accepted as a cloned vehicle should make it easier for the rest. Got a letter today from the council saying they agree with my appeal and the PCN has been cancelled.
Some bad news..
In the same post was another envelope from the council with another PCN for a different bus lane!!! This time it's a completely different car to mine so should be easy to appeal. This could go on for a long time.
You shouldn’t have to, but if it starts happening a lot, you could always put a cheap private plate on your car.
Received two more bus lane fines today.
Picking up some new number plates today with logos on which might help any future appeals.
Think I'm going to have to write a letter to the council to see what, if anything can be done to prevent anymore being sent to me. Obviously they wont want to do this in case I start committing traffic offences myself.
Picking up some new number plates today with logos on which might help any future appeals.
Think I'm going to have to write a letter to the council to see what, if anything can be done to prevent anymore being sent to me. Obviously they wont want to do this in case I start committing traffic offences myself.
Just an observation, but your car’s plates don’t seem to have a BS number, nor a plate supplier name. Perhaps it just doesn’t show. The cloned car’s supplier will probably be a different supplier, which would/should not put their name to it without the suitable documentation by the customer.
(PHers will be going around putting subtle, but distinctive plate fixings on their VRMs now.)
(PHers will be going around putting subtle, but distinctive plate fixings on their VRMs now.)
I'm considering changing my cars number plate via the DVLA, costs £80 plus any admin fees my insurers charge for updating their records.
https://www.personalisedvehicleregistration.servic...
https://www.personalisedvehicleregistration.servic...
I cancelled my registration number with the DVLA today and applied for a new one, which they granted instantly (£80), and I've fitted the new plates to my car.
Continuing the discussion over in this thread..
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Continuing the discussion over in this thread..
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
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