Elderly couple, not married, one owns house & has moved out
Discussion
Hi, appreciate some opinion and advice.
I know of a couple in their 80s who have lived together in a house for over 20 years, they’re not married but have lived as a couple, (ie one is not a lodger), and the house is owned by one of them, the man
The owner had been ill and about 6 months ago, both of them went to stay with his relatives who were concerned about his health.
About 6 weeks or so ago, the healthy partner ie the lady of the house was retuned to the house by the partners family, and told to arrange to leave as they want to sell the house. The owner will apparently not be returning, but is still alive, just needs help.
No idea if there is any power or attorney or anything, but I’m surprised it is as simple as asking someone who’s lived in a home for 20 years to just go as it’s being sold. Does the occupant have any rights as such?
I only know of this from afar tbh, and have already suggested the current occupant gets herself proper legal advice, but with an ageing population and older people living together, it can’t be the first time it’s happened!
Anyone know. I think she’d like to stay in the home, I think separating them is causing a massive strain, and becoming homeless seems to be adding to the problems.
I know of a couple in their 80s who have lived together in a house for over 20 years, they’re not married but have lived as a couple, (ie one is not a lodger), and the house is owned by one of them, the man
The owner had been ill and about 6 months ago, both of them went to stay with his relatives who were concerned about his health.
About 6 weeks or so ago, the healthy partner ie the lady of the house was retuned to the house by the partners family, and told to arrange to leave as they want to sell the house. The owner will apparently not be returning, but is still alive, just needs help.
No idea if there is any power or attorney or anything, but I’m surprised it is as simple as asking someone who’s lived in a home for 20 years to just go as it’s being sold. Does the occupant have any rights as such?
I only know of this from afar tbh, and have already suggested the current occupant gets herself proper legal advice, but with an ageing population and older people living together, it can’t be the first time it’s happened!
Anyone know. I think she’d like to stay in the home, I think separating them is causing a massive strain, and becoming homeless seems to be adding to the problems.
Edited by poo at Paul's on Saturday 13th April 15:04
I was in an 8.5 year relationship with a woman who had a house when I met her. I was living with my parents when we met. I moved in and paid for half of all the outgoings, though I wasn't named on the mortgage. When we split up I basically had to sling my hook. I wasn't entitled to anything. This was from late 2000 to early 2009, so things might have changed since then. I'll be intereted to see how this pans out.
Pica-Pica said:
As you write
“ the current occupant gets herself proper legal advice “
Of course. Sadly, one thing i missed out is that she is currently unaware of the request for her to leave, which has been communicated to her wider family, who've kept it to themselves for a bit as they know she will be so upset. “ the current occupant gets herself proper legal advice “
But i presume at some point, such a request would need to be formalised in some way to her?
A mate who is an ex policeman (i know!) reckons they will need a court order unless she decides to just willingly move out. Sadly, she has wider family, but none are in a position to put her up, and they are quite a way away, too.
poo at Paul's said:
Of course. Sadly, one thing i missed out is that she is currently unaware of the request for her to leave, which has been communicated to her wider family, who've kept it to themselves for a bit as they know she will be so upset.
If she doesn't know, how come you do?And how are you involved?
MitchT said:
I was in an 8.5 year relationship with a woman who had a house when I met her. I was living with my parents when we met. I moved in and paid for half of all the outgoings, though I wasn't named on the mortgage. When we split up I basically had to sling my hook. I wasn't entitled to anything. This was from late 2000 to early 2009, so things might have changed since then. I'll be intereted to see how this pans out.
Sorry to hear. I think in this case, the difference is they have not "split up" as such, the split has been forced by him being moved in with his family, and her being with him for a short time but then being sent back to the house. I dont know of the circumstances of how they were living with his family, but it appears that wont be happening again now! Also, of course, she is potentially vulnerable de to her age, she is late 80s and is on medication etc, but generally quite ok. The lived together without any help from Social Services etc, before, and she's been back a month or so and so far has just had a few family and friends helping with shopping etc, as she does not drive.
Sebring440 said:
poo at Paul's said:
Of course. Sadly, one thing i missed out is that she is currently unaware of the request for her to leave, which has been communicated to her wider family, who've kept it to themselves for a bit as they know she will be so upset.
If she doesn't know, how come you do?And how are you involved?
I have voiced an opinion that they should tell her, but am not close enough by any stretch to tell her myself!
BTW, if this makes any difference legally, it is in Wales, rather than Scotland which i know can have different rules on property than England and wales.
After 20+years living together as a couple she will very likely be able to establish a Promissory Estoppel and a right to claim dependency and a right to some of his estate under the Inheritance Provision for family and dependents Act 1975.
This kicks in after just 2 years living together as a couple should one party die and the other party has relied on the other for some degree of support.
This kicks in after just 2 years living together as a couple should one party die and the other party has relied on the other for some degree of support.
poo at Paul's said:
Sorry to hear. I think in this case, the difference is they have not "split up" as such, the split has been forced by him being moved in with his family, and her being with him for a short time but then being sent back to the house. I dont know of the circumstances of how they were living with his family, but it appears that wont be happening again now!
Also, of course, she is potentially vulnerable de to her age, she is late 80s and is on medication etc, but generally quite ok. The lived together without any help from Social Services etc, before, and she's been back a month or so and so far has just had a few family and friends helping with shopping etc, as she does not drive.
I think, where the property is concerned, she has no claim if they're not married, unless things have changed since my situation. One would hope, though, that there would be mechanisms in place to safeguard the wellbeing of a lady in her 80s. I was in this pickle as a 34 year old man so it was a simple case of suck it up and move on.Also, of course, she is potentially vulnerable de to her age, she is late 80s and is on medication etc, but generally quite ok. The lived together without any help from Social Services etc, before, and she's been back a month or so and so far has just had a few family and friends helping with shopping etc, as she does not drive.
av185 said:
After 20+years living together as a couple she will very likely be able to establish a Promissory Estoppel and a right to claim dependency and a right to some of his estate under the Inheritance Provision for family and dependents Act 1975.
This kicks in after just 2 years living together as a couple should one party die and the other party has relied on the other for some degree of support.
That’s interesting and something I’ve never heard of! Maybe an area they can look into. This kicks in after just 2 years living together as a couple should one party die and the other party has relied on the other for some degree of support.
MitchT said:
poo at Paul's said:
Sorry to hear. I think in this case, the difference is they have not "split up" as such, the split has been forced by him being moved in with his family, and her being with him for a short time but then being sent back to the house. I dont know of the circumstances of how they were living with his family, but it appears that wont be happening again now!
Also, of course, she is potentially vulnerable de to her age, she is late 80s and is on medication etc, but generally quite ok. The lived together without any help from Social Services etc, before, and she's been back a month or so and so far has just had a few family and friends helping with shopping etc, as she does not drive.
I think, where the property is concerned, she has no claim if they're not married, unless things have changed since my situation. One would hope, though, that there would be mechanisms in place to safeguard the wellbeing of a lady in her 80s. I was in this pickle as a 34 year old man so it was a simple case of suck it up and move on.Also, of course, she is potentially vulnerable de to her age, she is late 80s and is on medication etc, but generally quite ok. The lived together without any help from Social Services etc, before, and she's been back a month or so and so far has just had a few family and friends helping with shopping etc, as she does not drive.
Surely the owner of the house has final say unless they no longer have capacity.
If the owner has been happy living with his partner for 20 odd years in the house this looks like a case of his family putting some pressure on him to sell the house.
It could be completely legit but you would have thought the couple would have a conversation themselves about it rather than one family communicating to the other family and the two who need to talk not doing so.
If the owner has been happy living with his partner for 20 odd years in the house this looks like a case of his family putting some pressure on him to sell the house.
It could be completely legit but you would have thought the couple would have a conversation themselves about it rather than one family communicating to the other family and the two who need to talk not doing so.
FMOB said:
Surely the owner of the house has final say unless they no longer have capacity.
If the owner has been happy living with his partner for 20 odd years in the house this looks like a case of his family putting some pressure on him to sell the house.
It could be completely legit but you would have thought the couple would have a conversation themselves about it rather than one family communicating to the other family and the two who need to talk not doing so.
Yes, for the avoidance of doubt the issue is not along the lines of her having any financial interest in the property. It is whether she has any rights to remain living in the house and if so, for how long that may apply. If the owner has been happy living with his partner for 20 odd years in the house this looks like a case of his family putting some pressure on him to sell the house.
It could be completely legit but you would have thought the couple would have a conversation themselves about it rather than one family communicating to the other family and the two who need to talk not doing so.
The sad thing is that the couple are pretty much unable to even communicate with any reliability, as they’re physically separated by several hundred miles, and his family’s home appears to have very poor mobile signal and no landline. And that is adding to the stress of it all for her.
As explained, I’m quite removed from this. The wife’s brother is a bit of a nob, but his other half is genuinely lovely, and her foster family who raised her are genuine, honest hard workers with a very strong moral compass, and I think that’s true for the lady herself. It just seems sad this is happening on very level, for them both, tbh.
SlimJim16v said:
FMOB said:
Surely the owner of the house has final say unless they no longer have capacity.
I was going to say the same thing. poo at Paul's said:
FMOB said:
Surely the owner of the house has final say unless they no longer have capacity.
If the owner has been happy living with his partner for 20 odd years in the house this looks like a case of his family putting some pressure on him to sell the house.
It could be completely legit but you would have thought the couple would have a conversation themselves about it rather than one family communicating to the other family and the two who need to talk not doing so.
Yes, for the avoidance of doubt the issue is not along the lines of her having any financial interest in the property. It is whether she has any rights to remain living in the house and if so, for how long that may apply. If the owner has been happy living with his partner for 20 odd years in the house this looks like a case of his family putting some pressure on him to sell the house.
It could be completely legit but you would have thought the couple would have a conversation themselves about it rather than one family communicating to the other family and the two who need to talk not doing so.
The sad thing is that the couple are pretty much unable to even communicate with any reliability, as they’re physically separated by several hundred miles, and his family’s home appears to have very poor mobile signal and no landline. And that is adding to the stress of it all for her.
As explained, I’m quite removed from this. The wife’s brother is a bit of a nob, but his other half is genuinely lovely, and her foster family who raised her are genuine, honest hard workers with a very strong moral compass, and I think that’s true for the lady herself. It just seems sad this is happening on very level, for them both, tbh.
av185 said:
Her case will undoubtedly be strengthened further if she contributed in any way to the house and household living expenses.
She worked at Sainsburys well into her 70s and also ran a small business when younger that was passed to the kids, but which she still had some income from apparently,so she had some income on top of her pension, but we don’t know what specific arrangements that had if any. Certainly she paid some bills over the years but there was no mortgage involved at any time they lived together. It seems the answer is to get legal advice. Maybe the family can seek it initially but I’m sure the first thing a solicitor would say is ‘ I need to speak to her’!
Btw, for legal beagles, what sort of solicitor should be sought out. Property style specialist or family specialist?
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