Official channels to address nuisance neighbour
Discussion
You make great sense, and I largely agree.
The difficulty is this woman seems set to deliberately antagonise us. My response is to ignore her and do nothing. Not engage in her sport. We could pay someone to come in every week, tidy up, and then she chucks her garden back on to it for a laugh. As said above, it could be construed as childish behaviour on her part.
Some intervention from someone externally, with authority, might convince her to behave more appropriately. If the results of her behaviour are explained to her, and that there may be consequences - that might be a better way forward for all of us. Problem is...I don't know who/what that authority are. Anyone we speak to for advice says 'its a civil matter'. That to me is someone saying - we don't know, can't be bothered - like wheeling out GDPR and health and safety arguments.
The difficulty is this woman seems set to deliberately antagonise us. My response is to ignore her and do nothing. Not engage in her sport. We could pay someone to come in every week, tidy up, and then she chucks her garden back on to it for a laugh. As said above, it could be construed as childish behaviour on her part.
Some intervention from someone externally, with authority, might convince her to behave more appropriately. If the results of her behaviour are explained to her, and that there may be consequences - that might be a better way forward for all of us. Problem is...I don't know who/what that authority are. Anyone we speak to for advice says 'its a civil matter'. That to me is someone saying - we don't know, can't be bothered - like wheeling out GDPR and health and safety arguments.
TUS373 said:
You make great sense, and I largely agree.
The difficulty is this woman seems set to deliberately antagonise us. My response is to ignore her and do nothing. Not engage in her sport. We could pay someone to come in every week, tidy up, and then she chucks her garden back on to it for a laugh. As said above, it could be construed as childish behaviour on her part.
Some intervention from someone externally, with authority, might convince her to behave more appropriately. If the results of her behaviour are explained to her, and that there may be consequences - that might be a better way forward for all of us. Problem is...I don't know who/what that authority are. Anyone we speak to for advice says 'its a civil matter'. That to me is someone saying - we don't know, can't be bothered - like wheeling out GDPR and health and safety arguments.
The only ones with any power to do anything are the council. You need to get them onboardThe difficulty is this woman seems set to deliberately antagonise us. My response is to ignore her and do nothing. Not engage in her sport. We could pay someone to come in every week, tidy up, and then she chucks her garden back on to it for a laugh. As said above, it could be construed as childish behaviour on her part.
Some intervention from someone externally, with authority, might convince her to behave more appropriately. If the results of her behaviour are explained to her, and that there may be consequences - that might be a better way forward for all of us. Problem is...I don't know who/what that authority are. Anyone we speak to for advice says 'its a civil matter'. That to me is someone saying - we don't know, can't be bothered - like wheeling out GDPR and health and safety arguments.
Whilst I agree with not engaging in her games, perhaps a direct conversation - a final attempt to find common ground before you go through official channels - would be prudent.
You'll likely get short shrift, but you'll be more likely to get help from the council having tried it.
That time has passed. Our swords crossed previously and the Police were involved. I subsequently wrote to her to ask her to stay away from my wife, family, our house, anyone with business to visit our property. She was trying to intercept supermarket deliveries in the past, saying they would not be able to turn around at the top, when they could. All sorts of devious schemes, each small when isolated and therefore difficult to act upon. Put together, it does feel like a campaign. She is known locally as 'Mrs Twit' we discovered and I sense there is history with other people in the neighbourhood, but I have not gone out asking/stirring, trying to de-escalate.
Muzzer79 said:
The only ones with any power to do anything are the council. You need to get them onboard
Whilst I agree with not engaging in her games, perhaps a direct conversation - a final attempt to find common ground before you go through official channels - would be prudent.
You'll likely get short shrift, but you'll be more likely to get help from the council having tried it.
I very much doubt the council will get involved at all as this is more a civil dispute on private land?Whilst I agree with not engaging in her games, perhaps a direct conversation - a final attempt to find common ground before you go through official channels - would be prudent.
You'll likely get short shrift, but you'll be more likely to get help from the council having tried it.
Muzzer79 said:
TUS373 said:
You make great sense, and I largely agree.
The difficulty is this woman seems set to deliberately antagonise us. My response is to ignore her and do nothing. Not engage in her sport. We could pay someone to come in every week, tidy up, and then she chucks her garden back on to it for a laugh. As said above, it could be construed as childish behaviour on her part.
Some intervention from someone externally, with authority, might convince her to behave more appropriately. If the results of her behaviour are explained to her, and that there may be consequences - that might be a better way forward for all of us. Problem is...I don't know who/what that authority are. Anyone we speak to for advice says 'its a civil matter'. That to me is someone saying - we don't know, can't be bothered - like wheeling out GDPR and health and safety arguments.
The only ones with any power to do anything are the council. You need to get them onboardThe difficulty is this woman seems set to deliberately antagonise us. My response is to ignore her and do nothing. Not engage in her sport. We could pay someone to come in every week, tidy up, and then she chucks her garden back on to it for a laugh. As said above, it could be construed as childish behaviour on her part.
Some intervention from someone externally, with authority, might convince her to behave more appropriately. If the results of her behaviour are explained to her, and that there may be consequences - that might be a better way forward for all of us. Problem is...I don't know who/what that authority are. Anyone we speak to for advice says 'its a civil matter'. That to me is someone saying - we don't know, can't be bothered - like wheeling out GDPR and health and safety arguments.
Whilst I agree with not engaging in her games, perhaps a direct conversation - a final attempt to find common ground before you go through official channels - would be prudent.
You'll likely get short shrift, but you'll be more likely to get help from the council having tried it.
I'd imagine the only recourse the OP has is legal action, possibly an injunction, which would be quite costly, likely be more expensive than just paying for a gardener and unlikely to have the positive results the OP may hope for.
That is my quandary. I think there are two matters intertwined. From other posters, it is her private land and not public, so the matter is perhaps 'civil'. However, her behaviour around this is questionable, so if 'harassment' - then potentially a criminal matter?
I know councils do get involved in harassment/anti-social behaviour, but that is excluded where it is private land and therefore not in the otherwise public interests?
I know councils do get involved in harassment/anti-social behaviour, but that is excluded where it is private land and therefore not in the otherwise public interests?
If rightly or wrongly neither the Council or the Police wish to get involved then your options are pretty limited.
Hoping to suddenly get on fine with the woman in question appear a non starter and therefore doing anything to further antagonise her ( whether real or imaginary ) also appears to be fruitless.
If you can you need to get over this and simply continue keeping the access clear and maintaining the drive along with the other neighbours who appear more accommodating.
If you cannot then whilst moving is often mentioned glibly, in this case I'm not sure I see an alternative.
Shared driveways are never be entertained.
Hoping to suddenly get on fine with the woman in question appear a non starter and therefore doing anything to further antagonise her ( whether real or imaginary ) also appears to be fruitless.
If you can you need to get over this and simply continue keeping the access clear and maintaining the drive along with the other neighbours who appear more accommodating.
If you cannot then whilst moving is often mentioned glibly, in this case I'm not sure I see an alternative.
Shared driveways are never be entertained.
Councils are pretty useless generally.
I think they might be more likley to get involved if it was 'anti social behaviour' which was 'anti' a wider group of people than a few households.
You need to del with it as a civil matter and/or involve the police if any criminal law is broken.
You should also get on the Land Registry website and dowmload all the title documents and plans for het property. (and yours!, maybe all the houses invovled)
Very often the basic 'right of way' law is altered or over-ridden by covenants or WHY in the 'deeds'.
It can be of interest to look at the titles of what was there before the land was split up into house plots.
I think they might be more likley to get involved if it was 'anti social behaviour' which was 'anti' a wider group of people than a few households.
You need to del with it as a civil matter and/or involve the police if any criminal law is broken.
You should also get on the Land Registry website and dowmload all the title documents and plans for het property. (and yours!, maybe all the houses invovled)
Very often the basic 'right of way' law is altered or over-ridden by covenants or WHY in the 'deeds'.
It can be of interest to look at the titles of what was there before the land was split up into house plots.
OutInTheShed said:
Councils are pretty useless generally.
I think they might be more likley to get involved if it was 'anti social behaviour' which was 'anti' a wider group of people than a few households.
You need to del with it as a civil matter and/or involve the police if any criminal law is broken.
You should also get on the Land Registry website and dowmload all the title documents and plans for het property. (and yours!, maybe all the houses invovled)
Very often the basic 'right of way' law is altered or over-ridden by covenants or WHY in the 'deeds'.
It can be of interest to look at the titles of what was there before the land was split up into house plots.
Thanks, done that already. We checked everything out before the driveway was remade. It was agonisingly difficult to get that project done as all sorts of banana skins and excuses were made. The ruts were do deep that neighbour's cars had damaged wheels, suspension and grounding out. One of those neighbours subsequently moved.I think they might be more likley to get involved if it was 'anti social behaviour' which was 'anti' a wider group of people than a few households.
You need to del with it as a civil matter and/or involve the police if any criminal law is broken.
You should also get on the Land Registry website and dowmload all the title documents and plans for het property. (and yours!, maybe all the houses invovled)
Very often the basic 'right of way' law is altered or over-ridden by covenants or WHY in the 'deeds'.
It can be of interest to look at the titles of what was there before the land was split up into house plots.
Could the road be made up to adoptable standard, in terms of widths etc.?
If so, I believe householders on a street/road can make a request to the Highway Authority for it to be done and a charge can be levied against the properties for payment in due course (upon the future sale of the house if necessary).
I'm not sure if it is a total consensus or a majority needed. If it is just a majority (and if it can actually be made adoptable...) then you could explore that option - she could then be obstructing the highway with any dumped items (of natural origin or not) and options could be available for remediation of that situation.
Making up to adoptable standard is not cheap, though... but do it now and pay it back in 10 years time when you move, and rampant inflation will reduce the figure to about 50p's worth
lol
If so, I believe householders on a street/road can make a request to the Highway Authority for it to be done and a charge can be levied against the properties for payment in due course (upon the future sale of the house if necessary).
I'm not sure if it is a total consensus or a majority needed. If it is just a majority (and if it can actually be made adoptable...) then you could explore that option - she could then be obstructing the highway with any dumped items (of natural origin or not) and options could be available for remediation of that situation.
Making up to adoptable standard is not cheap, though... but do it now and pay it back in 10 years time when you move, and rampant inflation will reduce the figure to about 50p's worth
lolThis is an example of what we are up against. This material placed on the drive then carefully raked out from the edge leaving a clear, even strip. The big dollop is the contents of wheelie bin emptied back on! 
I was going to drive frozen sausages in....but we have a very active and hungry fox around us.
I was going to drive frozen sausages in....but we have a very active and hungry fox around us.
Edited by TUS373 on Monday 22 April 17:54
TUS373 said:
This is an example of what we are up against. This material placed on the drive then carefully raked out from the edge leaving a clear, even strip. The big dollop is the contents of wheelie bin emptied back on!
I was going to drive frozen sausages in....but we have a very active and hungry fox around us.
You were in the wrong putting the leaves in her bin.I was going to drive frozen sausages in....but we have a very active and hungry fox around us.
Edited by TUS373 on Monday 22 April 17:54
You should set aside any events where it's not crystal clear it's just her in the wrong.
If it's your responsibility to clear the lane of leaves do it, and dispose of them properly.
At your expense, not using a bin she's paid for.
Unless she's building barricades of stout logs, just ignore it and clear it up at your leisure.
Then she will have to give up or escalate.
TUS373 said:
That is my quandary. I think there are two matters intertwined. From other posters, it is her private land and not public, so the matter is perhaps 'civil'. However, her behaviour around this is questionable, so if 'harassment' - then potentially a criminal matter?
I know councils do get involved in harassment/anti-social behaviour, but that is excluded where it is private land and therefore not in the otherwise public interests?
Have you tried knocking on her door, apologising for using her bin without asking, and asking if you can discuss your ideas for maintaining the road with her or her husband? If it were me, I'd be willing to compromise with a neighbour, even if I thought technically I was right, in the interest of a more harmonious relationship. I know councils do get involved in harassment/anti-social behaviour, but that is excluded where it is private land and therefore not in the otherwise public interests?
With that in mind, how do you think she perceives your approach over the last three years? Maybe entitled? Possibly arrogant? Overly assertive? Bullying? Or just trying to push the cost for what she thinks are your responsibilities onto her?
I'm not trying to criticise or say those things are true, but if you can argue it from her perspective, it might make it easier to understand how to rebuild the relationship.
Fair points of course, trying to put yourself into someone else's shoes. I get that.
I feel that I have tried hard, been polite, taken the moral high ground, but that my efforts have gone unrecognised. I generally think there is some sort of behavioural issues in their house. Her demeanour, even when on better terms, was very very strange. I don't have an issue per se with anyone with a mental difficulty, but at the age she is at, mid 60s, she should perhaps recognise it in herself.
The trigger point was when she started putting branches on the driveway, replacing them once they have been moved. Genuine obstructions in our path. Police called when she threw one at my wife and it caught her. That is an assault. After that, she went quiet, kept her distance. But now I can feel that the situation is escalating again. With the best will in the world, I cannot knock on her door. I don't wish to plus I doubt she would take kindly to me.
As said above, she has claimed an area of ground belonging to a neighbour, but no one is saying anything.
I feel that I have tried hard, been polite, taken the moral high ground, but that my efforts have gone unrecognised. I generally think there is some sort of behavioural issues in their house. Her demeanour, even when on better terms, was very very strange. I don't have an issue per se with anyone with a mental difficulty, but at the age she is at, mid 60s, she should perhaps recognise it in herself.
The trigger point was when she started putting branches on the driveway, replacing them once they have been moved. Genuine obstructions in our path. Police called when she threw one at my wife and it caught her. That is an assault. After that, she went quiet, kept her distance. But now I can feel that the situation is escalating again. With the best will in the world, I cannot knock on her door. I don't wish to plus I doubt she would take kindly to me.
As said above, she has claimed an area of ground belonging to a neighbour, but no one is saying anything.
TUS373 said:
Fair points of course, trying to put yourself into someone else's shoes. I get that.
I feel that I have tried hard, been polite, taken the moral high ground, but that my efforts have gone unrecognised. I generally think there is some sort of behavioural issues in their house. Her demeanour, even when on better terms, was very very strange. I don't have an issue per se with anyone with a mental difficulty, but at the age she is at, mid 60s, she should perhaps recognise it in herself.
The trigger point was when she started putting branches on the driveway, replacing them once they have been moved. Genuine obstructions in our path. Police called when she threw one at my wife and it caught her. That is an assault. After that, she went quiet, kept her distance. But now I can feel that the situation is escalating again. With the best will in the world, I cannot knock on her door. I don't wish to plus I doubt she would take kindly to me.
As said above, she has claimed an area of ground belonging to a neighbour, but no one is saying anything.
You’re not thinking of it from her point of view. Those branches are the ones you moved from the driveway onto her land. You started it. (From her point of view)I feel that I have tried hard, been polite, taken the moral high ground, but that my efforts have gone unrecognised. I generally think there is some sort of behavioural issues in their house. Her demeanour, even when on better terms, was very very strange. I don't have an issue per se with anyone with a mental difficulty, but at the age she is at, mid 60s, she should perhaps recognise it in herself.
The trigger point was when she started putting branches on the driveway, replacing them once they have been moved. Genuine obstructions in our path. Police called when she threw one at my wife and it caught her. That is an assault. After that, she went quiet, kept her distance. But now I can feel that the situation is escalating again. With the best will in the world, I cannot knock on her door. I don't wish to plus I doubt she would take kindly to me.
As said above, she has claimed an area of ground belonging to a neighbour, but no one is saying anything.
If you want the lane cleared, you need to do it yourself and take away the rubbish. You have a right of way not a right to a clean and tidy lane.
It does sound like you have created a rod for your own back by agreeing that refuse lorries won’t use the lane. That could be fight worth taking up, which presumably makes the clearing up easier. I would imagine the RoW should allow access for services.
You’d better just hope she doesn’t realise she can install a lockable gate across the RoW, like the land owner my father was in dispute did.
My father’s RoW dispute lasted 3 years, involved a court injunction (at significant cost) and was only resolved through threats of violence after the neighbour started installing the lockable gate.
These really are horrible situations to get into and I hope you can take the higher ground and get it resolved and move on. Legal disputes are draining both financially and emotionally.
JQ said:
You’re not thinking of it from her point of view. Those branches are the ones you moved from the driveway onto her land. You started it. (From her point of view)
If you want the lane cleared, you need to do it yourself and take away the rubbish. You have a right of way not a right to a clean and tidy lane.
It does sound like you have created a rod for your own back by agreeing that refuse lorries won’t use the lane. That could be fight worth taking up, which presumably makes the clearing up easier. I would imagine the RoW should allow access for services.
You’d better just hope she doesn’t realise she can install a lockable gate across the RoW, like the land owner my father was in dispute did.
My father’s RoW dispute lasted 3 years, involved a court injunction (at significant cost) and was only resolved through threats of violence after the neighbour started installing the lockable gate.
These really are horrible situations to get into and I hope you can take the higher ground and get it resolved and move on. Legal disputes are draining both financially and emotionally.
Thank you. To be clear, the driveway, garden, trees that drop...are all hers. She's trying to make me clear up the driveway and in the past, I have. The council said that if there is an obstructing branch on the drive, then move it but don't take it. Its not mine to take (as silly as that sounds). We have a ROW, and by putting stuff back on there that I have already moved to clear obstruction....is put back again. If you want the lane cleared, you need to do it yourself and take away the rubbish. You have a right of way not a right to a clean and tidy lane.
It does sound like you have created a rod for your own back by agreeing that refuse lorries won’t use the lane. That could be fight worth taking up, which presumably makes the clearing up easier. I would imagine the RoW should allow access for services.
You’d better just hope she doesn’t realise she can install a lockable gate across the RoW, like the land owner my father was in dispute did.
My father’s RoW dispute lasted 3 years, involved a court injunction (at significant cost) and was only resolved through threats of violence after the neighbour started installing the lockable gate.
These really are horrible situations to get into and I hope you can take the higher ground and get it resolved and move on. Legal disputes are draining both financially and emotionally.
I think my short solution is to do absolutely nothing. If I do nothing, I'm not doing anything wrong. If I do something....well...it will be 'wrong' thing I'm sure.
We had considered the gate prospect but she is so tight fisted....she would also try and make us install it and pay for it!
Thanks everyone for mature, grounded and sensible opinions. I will chew it over.
TUS373 said:
This is an example of what we are up against. This material placed on the drive then carefully raked out from the edge leaving a clear, even strip. The big dollop is the contents of wheelie bin emptied back on!
I was going to drive frozen sausages in....but we have a very active and hungry fox around us.
She sounds like a proper Meddlesome Ratbag, but unless the picture is unrepresentative that's about 10 minutes work with a broom and a wheelbarrow. She can only sweep leaves onto the drive while she has leaves, a couple of months a year at most. Is she likely to snuff it any time soon? Robust health or one bad winter away from the reaper?I was going to drive frozen sausages in....but we have a very active and hungry fox around us.
Buy a very noisy leaf blower.....
Or, as others have suggested, get yourself a leaf vacuum and suck those up every now and again. Takes very little time, your approach to the house will be more pleasant and no risk of escalation (you will have sucked up anything she can dump).
She sounds like an irrational nutter. To paraphrase the 'never argue with an idiot' quote, you can't reason with people like this. They see you as the problem and not themselves. I live next to a family like this and just go about my life ignoring them.
Or, as others have suggested, get yourself a leaf vacuum and suck those up every now and again. Takes very little time, your approach to the house will be more pleasant and no risk of escalation (you will have sucked up anything she can dump).
She sounds like an irrational nutter. To paraphrase the 'never argue with an idiot' quote, you can't reason with people like this. They see you as the problem and not themselves. I live next to a family like this and just go about my life ignoring them.
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