Driving test question - complaint?

[Caddyshack]

Simpo Two said:

Caddyshack said:

It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.

That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.

My daughter does Triathlon and Tetrathlon and she wanted me to go out on the bikes with her, I was amazed by how many cars just sat behind my slow ass. If the road was not perfectly straight it was as if they thought they were overtaking on a blind bend. Even on straights they were apprehensive.

[skwdenyer]

Simpo Two said:

Caddyshack said:

It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.

That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.

Where we are in the Yorkshire Dales, the learner has had it drilled into them that they must give cyclists space. In accompanied driving they're exceptionally good at it - not flustered or intimidated to "go for it" by traffic behind, but not holding other traffic up when safe to go for it. If a car behind is slowed or inconvenienced, that doesn't in my book trump the obligation to not endanger the cyclist.

The other complication in this case, I feel, is that the test was taken in a family car, an old diesel Berlingo, which very definitely doesn't have the get-up-and-go of modern instructors' cars (in my day my instructor had a 1.1 Mk 2 Fiesta - no chance of "getting your foot down" to make an overtake there!). Being sure is part of being safe in my book.

The test centre in question has, it turns out, a poor reputation and a (relatively speaking) low pass rate. May be time to pick a different test centre for the next attempt!

I may suggest, after some mature reflection, a polite note to the Chief Examiner.

[pork911]

An overly precious echo chamber for the family member's disappointment won't help them.

Even more so with the Berlingo straw grasp.

[TUS373]

I sat in on a test where the driver got 1 major and 0 minors.

The driver was following satnav and had to take a right turn onto road that was busy. Traffic opposite was waiting to cross over. Traffic moving both ways. There were parked cars, illegally, making observation at the junction I.e. the field of view, difficult.

The driver pulled up a couple of feet short at the giveaway, and could not see well. They inched forward and examiner shouted 'stop, stop, stop'....and that was it.

This was not a dual control leaner car but a private one. Examiner considered that the driver was about to set off, but that was not the case. I had to bite my lip. I don't think it was a good call by the examiner, and the learner as I said got zero minors.

I think the mistake perhaps was that the driver should have said something to explain that they were inching forward before examiner said anything, to get better visibility. Or waited completely until there was no obvious traffic, nosed out, and if clear...gone.

All over and done in a split second. The perils of taking a test. No two are ever the same.

[pocketspring]

OverSteery said:

Basically they are Gods in their own little empire and many (not all) know it and have an appalling attitude.

If you think the examiners are bad, you should have met the trainers at Cardington. That was very eye opening.

[Sebring440]

skwdenyer said:

the examiner was so fat he was out of breath walking to the car 50 metres from the test centre, could barely get the seatbelt on, and was unable to turn his head without moving his whole upper body (this was witnessed by family member accompanying them).

You really have got some sort of personality problem to be bringing this up.

skwdenyer said:

I may suggest, after some mature reflection, a polite note to the Chief Examiner.

Yes, upon mature reflection, write your "polite note" and the reply will surely be: "What has this to do with you?"

[skwdenyer]

Sebring440 said:

skwdenyer said:

the examiner was so fat he was out of breath walking to the car 50 metres from the test centre, could barely get the seatbelt on, and was unable to turn his head without moving his whole upper body (this was witnessed by family member accompanying them).

You really have got some sort of personality problem to be bringing this up.

LOL. The inability of the examiner to observe what was happening in the car and outside it was potentially relevant to the first failure. But that's a rabbit hole and I shouldn't have brought it up.

[QBee]

InitialDave said:

Simpo Two said:

QBee said:

or being told to turn left at a roundabout in Grantham and turning into Asda's carpark....

Is that really a fail? It's not dangerous in any way and a perfectly common error in real driving!

Maybe the Asda is on the right

The candidates were warned before the test not to take the very left hand lane at the Asda roundabout, because it led only into Asda's car park.
Unfortunately we had booked the test in Grantham, a town she had never been to before, because it was earliest one available.
Jodie had lived until 12 months previously in Southport, Merseyside, and only knew the geography of Southport and Cambridge, where we were living at the time of the test.
So the warning went straight over her head. I agree it seemed a bit harsh.

She eventually passed in Peterborough, where she got the same youngish examiner twice running, failed the first time but remembered that he had a young family the second time, so chatted happily with him about his kids throughout the test, which relaxed her, and passed.

[Forester1965]

Fermit said:

In the first two instances, 100% should not be overtaking. As for the third, IF the was a significant gap with opposite direction traffic, they should (IMO) have used the gears and strong acceleration to pass the bike. However, if there weren't any significant gaps they'd be falling foul of the Highway Codes advice on the matter As a guide: leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph

Seems unlucky. From memory HC says you mustn't overtake if it causes incoming traffic to alter course/speed and also to leave at least 1.5m/as much as you would passing a car when you overtake a cyclist. On that basis the candidate was damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Time4another]

Won't help with appealing this but you are allowed to take your instructor as a passenger on your test. My wife had her instructor sat in the back for her test.

[GasEngineer]

As mentioned above; perhaps a commentary would have helped.

Is this a thing that instructors advise/suggest test candidates to do?

Edited by GasEngineer on Wednesday 24th April 07:47

[Dog Star]

pork911 said:

An overly precious echo chamber for the family member's disappointment won't help them.

Even more so with the Berlingo straw grasp.

I immensely dislike the “suck it up” crew on PH, so it really pains me to say that in all honesty this is how it comes across to me. The examiner looking like Jabba the Hutt was my favourite.

[pocketspring]

Dog Star said:

I immensely dislike the “suck it up” crew on PH, so it really pains me to say that in all honesty this is how it comes across to me. The examiner looking like Jabba the Hutt was my favourite.

It's not so much the suck it crew for driving tests but as said before, if you fail, they are the devil and if you pass, they are your best mate. Examiners are only Human and can make mistakes as well.

[number2]

Caddyshack said:

Simpo Two said:

Caddyshack said:

It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.

That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.

My daughter does Triathlon and Tetrathlon and she wanted me to go out on the bikes with her, I was amazed by how many cars just sat behind my slow ass. If the road was not perfectly straight it was as if they thought they were overtaking on a blind bend. Even on straights they were apprehensive.

Can be tricky if it's on a right bend though, for example. My car is low so I not only sit with my head less than a metre from the ground but also a few metres to the right of a cyclist, so my view ahead is way more limited.

That's not too say people don't just sit behind cyclists, but there is the mitigating factor of having much poorer visibility of the road ahead at some points.

[Pica-Pica]

GasEngineer said:

As mentioned above; perhaps a commentary would have helped.

Is this a thing that instructors advise/suggest test candidates to do?

Edited by GasEngineer on Wednesday 24th April 07:47

This ..
Is the right comment, and an answer to this would be the best solution for future tests.
I would also suggest a training/instruction should have covered this, and similar situations (horse riders, hesitant pedestrians). e.g. “this is a vulnerable road user, I shall give them space and time”

[InitialDave]

Pica-Pica said:

GasEngineer said:

As mentioned above; perhaps a commentary would have helped.

Is this a thing that instructors advise/suggest test candidates to do?

Edited by GasEngineer on Wednesday 24th April 07:47

This ..
Is the right comment, and an answer to this would be the best solution for future tests.
I would also suggest a training/instruction should have covered this, and similar situations (horse riders, hesitant pedestrians). e.g. “this is a vulnerable road user, I shall give them space and time”

I agree, it's like making sure you're not just checking your mirrors etc, but you're seen to be doing so.

If it played out as the OP described, then yes, it seems the examiner is wrong, but all you can do is explain to them why you're making the decision you are, and if they still don't get it, as frustrating as it is, you kind of just have to take the hit.

Sometimes people in a position of authority don't actually know their stuff to the level they should. Some of them will take on board being corrected, and some won't, and I'm afraid I suspect that a driving test examiner has a lower chance of being receptive to dissent.

[Cmakka23]

Instructor here. You can complain about the conduct of the test, this would never change the result. The best that can happen is you could possibly get a free re-test if it was proven the test wasn't conducted correctly.

As said above, what we get told after a fail is rarely what happened.

Without being there yourself and seeing it there is little point at all in complaining. It will always fall in the Examiners favour.

My hinest advice would be to chalk it up to experience and get another one booked.

[Pica-Pica]

InitialDave said:

Pica-Pica said:

GasEngineer said:

As mentioned above; perhaps a commentary would have helped.

Is this a thing that instructors advise/suggest test candidates to do?

Edited by GasEngineer on Wednesday 24th April 07:47

This ..
Is the right comment, and an answer to this would be the best solution for future tests.
I would also suggest a training/instruction should have covered this, and similar situations (horse riders, hesitant pedestrians). e.g. “this is a vulnerable road user, I shall give them space and time”

I agree, it's like making sure you're not just checking your mirrors etc, but you're seen to be doing so.

If it played out as the OP described, then yes, it seems the examiner is wrong, but all you can do is explain to them why you're making the decision you are, and if they still don't get it, as frustrating as it is, you kind of just have to take the hit.

Sometimes people in a position of authority don't actually know their stuff to the level they should. Some of them will take on board being corrected, and some won't, and I'm afraid I suspect that a driving test examiner has a lower chance of being receptive to dissent.

In these days of openness and transparency, I am surprised it is all not video’d . We need VAR!

[over_the_hill]

InitialDave said:

Simpo Two said:

QBee said:

or being told to turn left at a roundabout in Grantham and turning into Asda's carpark....

Is that really a fail? It's not dangerous in any way and a perfectly common error in real driving!

Maybe the Asda is on the right

Turning into Asda is a fail full stop.

[Caddyshack]

skwdenyer said:

Simpo Two said:

Caddyshack said:

It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.

That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.

Where we are in the Yorkshire Dales, the learner has had it drilled into them that they must give cyclists space. In accompanied driving they're exceptionally good at it - not flustered or intimidated to "go for it" by traffic behind, but not holding other traffic up when safe to go for it. If a car behind is slowed or inconvenienced, that doesn't in my book trump the obligation to not endanger the cyclist.

The other complication in this case, I feel, is that the test was taken in a family car, an old diesel Berlingo, which very definitely doesn't have the get-up-and-go of modern instructors' cars (in my day my instructor had a 1.1 Mk 2 Fiesta - no chance of "getting your foot down" to make an overtake there!). Being sure is part of being safe in my book.

The test centre in question has, it turns out, a poor reputation and a (relatively speaking) low pass rate. May be time to pick a different test centre for the next attempt!

I may suggest, after some mature reflection, a polite note to the Chief Examiner.

I would not want my daughter to try another, easier, test centre...they just need to pass well.

Any car can overtake a 10mph bike, you would only need 20mph to whip past.