Brunstrom says he wants no new speed cameras but

[Tafia]

Brunstrom in today’s Daily Post is claiming he wants to be less confrontational in his dealings with drivers and does not want any new speed traps.

Sounds wonderful but what Richard forgot to mention is that it now appears he wants anyone doing 1 mph over the limit to be prosecuted or offered speed awareness courses.

Prior to this wonderful idea, the ACPO guidelines said we should not be prosecuted until we exceed the limit by 10% of that limit plus 2 mph. So 35 in a 30 would not lead to prosecution.

Supported by Left wing politicians,this new regime will mean that we will now be prosecuted or retrained for exceeding the limit by the width of the speedo needle.

Read the whole mad story here 4 pages long.

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/tm_objectid=16163263%26method=full%26siteid=50142%26headline=brunstrom%2d%2dno%2dnew%2dspeed%2dtraps-name_page.html

If that link fails, see the main page here :

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/

[puggit]

So a zero tolerance policy is less confrontational?

Last week we completed 2300 trouble free and carefree miles on the continent (France, Italy, Switzerland, Liechenstein, Austria and Germany). At the point of pulling on to the A20 in Dover my heart sank at the realisation that I was now public enemy no1 again.

The only country I also felt a little under the kosh was Liechenstein, which had a fair few red light cameras for such a little place!!

[trax]

Shocking, what do these morons think they are acieving?

As for ACPO guidlines, what is the point? Forces dont give a monkeys about them as it is.

[Mr Whippy]

Ah well, who cares, even more backlash will occur when it does finally reach boiling point.

I honestly believe most of the british public is a bit dumb and slow to what is going on around them, but all it takes (like the frenzied fuel buying the other week) is a bit of an outrage and something to fan the flames and voila, everyone will HATE scamerati tw4ts even more.

Hmmmm, maybe I'm dreaming, but I live in hope.

The above policy will just mean even MORE people fixated with speedo and not the road where it is most important. 30mph zones will be deadly imho, where there are more junctions, people crossing and potential hazards, the last thing we want is people worrying about exacting speed!

Yikes!

Dave

[smeggy]

Tafia said:

………. it now appears he wants anyone doing 1 mph over the limit to be prosecuted or offered speed awareness courses.

Do you have a good source for that? I couldn’t find a news reference or direct quote to this effect via Google.

[justinp1]

There is also a fatal flaw: If you offend again within 3 years you will not be offered the training again.

Thus if you are a reasonably clean driver, ie 3 points every 3 years or so, by the time you have offended again you may as well take the points as they are just about to be wiped off the totting up total anyway.

There is also the mention that the course would only be offered to people who excees the speed limit by a small amount.

Thus, if you are caught doing 80 on a dead straight empty motorway, you will get 're-educated'. Yet if you do 50 past a school you will get the points...

[tafia]

smeggy said:

Tafia said: ………. it now appears he wants anyone doing 1 mph over the limit to be prosecuted or offered speed awareness courses. Do you have a good source for that? I couldn’t find a news reference or direct quote to this effect via Google.

I read some time ago it was going to be government policy and the article says anyone, "just over the limit" Will try to find the older report. I recall a thread here on that very subject. Can anyone find it?

[tafia]

smeggy said:

Tafia said: ………. it now appears he wants anyone doing 1 mph over the limit to be prosecuted or offered speed awareness courses. Do you have a good source for that? I couldn’t find a news reference or direct quote to this effect via Google.

Found it. I started a thread on this in Sept 2004.

See www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=129629

Para reads :

Despite these safety improvements, new speed trap legislation will soon make driving one mph over the limit a statutory offence, adds Michael Kemp.

The move, threatening millions more motorists with fines and licence endorsement, was hidden in changes announced by Transport Secretary Alistair Darling on September 1. Mr Darling is preparing to make legal
history by setting in law that 21, 31, 41, 51 and 71mph are illegal speeds.

Dr Peter Russell, professor of road safety and director of the Driver Education Research Foundation, said: "Some police forces are going to give drivers a hammering for being just a fraction over the limit. It is very worrying that drivers will not know what tolerance, if any, is being applied. They will be for ever taking their eyes off the road.

[chrisgr31]

The whole flaw in the argument is that the majority of drivers speed but the majority of drivers don't crash!

I was speaking with our local Police Inspector the other day about speeding as a consultation exercise had shown that speeding was perceived as a big problem in the town. He said I can set up a speed trap and catch people, but the people I will mainly catch are those who have complained and are a few miles an hour over the limit. My chances of catching the occasional piss-taking speeder are very slight indeed.

Couldn't help but agree with him

[james_j]

chrisgr31 said:

The whole flaw in the argument is that the majority of drivers speed but the majority of drivers don't crash! I was speaking with our local Police Inspector the other day about speeding as a consultation exercise had shown that speeding was perceived as a big problem in the town. He said I can set up a speed trap and catch people, but the people I will mainly catch are those who have complained and are a few miles an hour over the limit. My chances of catching the occasional piss-taking speeder are very slight indeed. Couldn't help but agree with him

Quite. It would seem that fools / zealots like Brunstrom will never learn.

[puggit]

chrisgr31 said:

The whole flaw in the argument is that the majority of drivers speed but the majority of drivers don't crash! I was speaking with our local Police Inspector the other day about speeding as a consultation exercise had shown that speeding was perceived as a big problem in the town. He said I can set up a speed trap and catch people, but the people I will mainly catch are those who have complained and are a few miles an hour over the limit. My chances of catching the occasional piss-taking speeder are very slight indeed. Couldn't help but agree with him

Which is where trafpol come in - by continuously moving they are increasing their chances of seeing said piss-taker.

But of course that costs money and resources and doesn't generate much in return

[D_Mike]

the flaw in this is that the speed measurement devices aren't accurate to within 1mph.

[rich 36]

Not forgetting

[WildCat]

LanCASH££££re used to have this zero tolerance over their speed courses. They revised to warning letter to/including 10% plus 2 - und up to 10% plus 5 got the Speed Course und above the fixed penalty etc. Ist waht they say - but still hearing complaints over Speed course invites for 34 mph.... Suspect most are above threshold - so they have to get the bums on seats for course - und the cash flowing in of course.

Ist disgace - undermines what appears to be (und could be acceptable) basically a good course from what those invited tell me - as speed not mentioned but COAST mentioned a lot! )

[Tafia]

WildCat said:

LanCASH££££re used to have this zero tolerance over their speed courses. They revised to warning letter to/including 10% plus 2 - und up to 10% plus 5 got the Speed Course und above the fixed penalty etc. Ist waht they say - but still hearing complaints over Speed course invites for 34 mph.... Suspect most are above threshold - so they have to get the bums on seats for course - und the cash flowing in of course. Ist disgace - undermines what appears to be (und could be acceptable) basically a good course from what those invited tell me - as speed not mentioned but COAST mentioned a lot! )

I see the papers are full of Brunstrom's alleged U -turn on cameras. I don't see this as a U-turn. Why does he mention "those just over the limit"

I have been told by a friend that he knows of person who has been sent a letter by Arrive Alive to warn him that he has been caught at 1 mile an hour over a 30 limit and if caught again, he will be prosecuted.

I have not seen this letter and have written to Arrive Alive office to ask if this is true.

[princeperch]

Tafia said:

WildCat said: LanCASH££££re used to have this zero tolerance over their speed courses. They revised to warning letter to/including 10% plus 2 - und up to 10% plus 5 got the Speed Course und above the fixed penalty etc. Ist waht they say - but still hearing complaints over Speed course invites for 34 mph.... Suspect most are above threshold - so they have to get the bums on seats for course - und the cash flowing in of course. Ist disgace - undermines what appears to be (und could be acceptable) basically a good course from what those invited tell me - as speed not mentioned but COAST mentioned a lot! ) I see the papers are full of Brunstrom's alleged U -turn on cameras. I don't see this as a U-turn. Why does he mention "those just over the limit" I have been told by a friend that he knows of person who has been sent a letter by Arrive Alive to warn him that he has been caught at 1 mile an hour over a 30 limit and if caught again, he will be prosecuted. I have not seen this letter and have written to Arrive Alive office to ask if this is true.

I dont believe that...however ive been reliably informed that in some areas in Lancs they are prosecuting at 10%. Most forces follow acpo guideline, a lot of them go above these ( I know that in one area of Herts the scam van is pinging at 41mph in a 30).
If I were ever to receive a letter saying I had been "caught" at 1mph over the limit, I would have no hesitiation in sending a reply letter via recorded delivery informing them I have used their letter as a piece of bog roll, and the discomfort of the venture was vastly outweighed by the satisfaction I gleened...

[smeggy]

tafia said:

Found it. I started a thread on this in Sept 2004. See www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=129629

Thanks Tafia, that’s good enough for me.

tafia said:

I have been told by a friend that he knows of person who has been sent a letter by Arrive Alive to warn him that he has been caught at 1 mile an hour over a 30 limit and if caught again, he will be prosecuted. I have not seen this letter and have written to Arrive Alive office to ask if this is true.

Please keep us updated

[smeggy]

D_Mike said:

the flaw in this is that the speed measurement devices aren't accurate to within 1mph.

Lidar manufacturers claim to be, but they don’t account for sweep errors (which they also claim to be able to detect, but in fact don’t)

Also, there’s the issue of forming prior opinion – how can anyone reliably judge the difference between 30 and 31MPH? (not that this matters anyway )

However SPECS over significant distances just might be accurate enough…….

[deltafox]

If they send you a warning letter, can you send them a warning letter back?