Mitigating Circumstances for Speeding?
Discussion
I've recently received a NIP thru the post for doing 40 in a 30 limit.
I'm thinking of completing the form as the keeper and driver. Is the next stage that a court date is set?
I was then thinking of attending court and pleading guilty but asking for mitigation, my points being:
1. This was at midnight and very few cars on road, 3 lanes wide each side, therefore 40 miles an hour whilst techically speeding was not a dangerously high speed.
2. There was a camera some 500 yards earlier that I had not been flashed by, so was travelling under 30 at that moment.
3. There was a bus in the inside lane pulling out, so I was using overtaking manoevre temporarily.
4. I have been driving for 20 years and never been convicted for speeding before.
5. I have driven high performance cars for past 6 years, but exercised restraint evidenced by my clean licence.
6. My car, being a Porshce has exceptionally good brakes enabling me to stop in a short time and space should the need arise.
7. I'd admit to the speed, and offer to pay the fine, but request no points as this would blemish my long term record and likely affect my expensive insurance.
What are the chances of the magistrates being lenient and just fining me, without points?
>> Edited by 911addict on Friday 28th April 16:18
I'm thinking of completing the form as the keeper and driver. Is the next stage that a court date is set?
I was then thinking of attending court and pleading guilty but asking for mitigation, my points being:
1. This was at midnight and very few cars on road, 3 lanes wide each side, therefore 40 miles an hour whilst techically speeding was not a dangerously high speed.
2. There was a camera some 500 yards earlier that I had not been flashed by, so was travelling under 30 at that moment.
3. There was a bus in the inside lane pulling out, so I was using overtaking manoevre temporarily.
4. I have been driving for 20 years and never been convicted for speeding before.
5. I have driven high performance cars for past 6 years, but exercised restraint evidenced by my clean licence.
6. My car, being a Porshce has exceptionally good brakes enabling me to stop in a short time and space should the need arise.
7. I'd admit to the speed, and offer to pay the fine, but request no points as this would blemish my long term record and likely affect my expensive insurance.
What are the chances of the magistrates being lenient and just fining me, without points?
>> Edited by 911addict on Friday 28th April 16:18
At that speed and with zero points currently, it will not go to court.
If you complete the s.172 form and nominate yourself as the driver, you will receive a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty (£60 fine and a 3 point endorsement on your licence).
If you ignored the CoFP and elected to have the matter heard in front of the Magistrates, with an early plea of guilty you would receive a fine of £60 plus costs of ~£35 AND 3 points..
>> Edited by SS2. on Friday 28th April 16:21
If you complete the s.172 form and nominate yourself as the driver, you will receive a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty (£60 fine and a 3 point endorsement on your licence).
If you ignored the CoFP and elected to have the matter heard in front of the Magistrates, with an early plea of guilty you would receive a fine of £60 plus costs of ~£35 AND 3 points..
>> Edited by SS2. on Friday 28th April 16:21
I wouldn't go to court mate - given your points above, I can see them saying:
a) As there was a bus pulling out, you should have slowed down,
b) You think the law only applies where there are fixed cameras do you?
c) Do you think buying an expensive sports car gives you the right to break the law?
By the way - these points aren't my viewpoint at all, 30mph down a 3 lane dual carriageway is a ridiculous speed limit, especially late at night, and even moreso in a well maintained sports car. Just got to look at what the guys in the courtroom are going to think unfortunately - I'd just take the 3 points. Apparently over 20% of the driving population have 3 or more points now, and my mum found it didn't affect her insurance at all.
a) As there was a bus pulling out, you should have slowed down,
b) You think the law only applies where there are fixed cameras do you?
c) Do you think buying an expensive sports car gives you the right to break the law?
By the way - these points aren't my viewpoint at all, 30mph down a 3 lane dual carriageway is a ridiculous speed limit, especially late at night, and even moreso in a well maintained sports car. Just got to look at what the guys in the courtroom are going to think unfortunately - I'd just take the 3 points. Apparently over 20% of the driving population have 3 or more points now, and my mum found it didn't affect her insurance at all.
911addict said:Eh ? Did you miss the point of my post ?
SS2,
Thanks for explaining, that's clear. I think I'd choose to go to court and plead guilty but with mitigation.
Even with an early guilty plea, I'd be 99% confident that at court you would get at least the same penalty (fine & points) as a Conditional Offer AND you would have to pay court costs.
Bear in mind that the maximum fine the Mags *can* hand out for the offence is £1000. If, as your logon name implies, you have a Porsche and have a reasonable amount of disposal cash, the Mags may up the fine as they saw fit..
IMHO, if you are intent on pleading guilty, then take the CoFP - its a no-brainer..
911addict said:
7. I'd admit to the speed, and offer to pay the fine, but request no points as this would blemish my long term record and likely affect my expensive insurance.
Sorry mate, can't help it, whilst I agree with you, it is more likely that this will happen first;
But take it to court and make them 'work' for it, you'll probably get a bigger fine but if everyone did it they'd have big problems.
Best of Luck.
Two things immediately spring to mind. What was a bus doing on the road at midnight and, if you tried your proposed mitigation you will almost certainly be hit with the comment that if a bus is just pulling out it had obviously stopped to let someone off. As it had just let someone off, driving past it at 40 was extremely dangerous as you don't know that the person(s) that have just got off the bus aren't going to step out from behind it and into your path. A very likely scenario at midnight as they will probably be drunk too.
There is absolutely no point in trying to plead guilty but get a reduced penalty by way of mitigation. Speeding is an absolute offence. Your choices are to find a way to fight it and plead not guilty or accept the offer of £60 and 3 points.
There is absolutely no point in trying to plead guilty but get a reduced penalty by way of mitigation. Speeding is an absolute offence. Your choices are to find a way to fight it and plead not guilty or accept the offer of £60 and 3 points.
911addict said:
What are the chances of the magistrates being lenient and just fining me, without points?
IMO absoulutely zero.
You've made the mistake of assuming the system is based on and enforced with common sense! NO no no!
The fact that your driving was perfectly safe does not come into play at all.
If a speed camera partnership had to prove an element of poor driving had occured before they could sting you for 60 quid, their business would no longer be financially viable and their flourishing empires would dissapear in a puff of brake dust over night. As the system stands, based on job creation and profit, I can't think of an easier way of making money, if I didn't have any morals I'd even be tempted to jump on the bandwagon. As it happens though I'd rather be burned alive on a stake.
911, I can certainly understand your feelings particularly as this is your first offence following what sounds like many years of driving.
You need to understand that this is a strict liability offence. That means that if you were speeding, and it can be proved you were speeding, you're guilty. Your reasons for speeding will rarely be considered.
The sort of things that might be favourably viewed are:
- rushing to a hospital in an emergency situation
- speeding to prevent a more serious offence. (I'm too tired to think of an example)
- speeding where otherwise life or limb is at risk.
(If I'm repeating myself, sorry .... SERIOUSLY long day)
You're not going to avoid the fine or the points. Sorry. The fact that you have a clean licence actually makes the magistrates LESS likely to not give points because you're not in danger of losing your licence and there will be no adverse effect on your work or other aspects of your life (except for an insurance hike).
Even if you were to avoid the points, you're still going to receive the fine. Your offence wasn't so serious as to warrant a larger fine. The only thing you're going to gain from having a hearing is to be able to make a statement explaining why you were speeding. That statement is going to cost you £35 in addition to the fine and points you would get anyway.
I'm sorry for having to have said this, but best advice is just to take a deep breath and pay your driving windfall tax the same as the rest of us.
You need to understand that this is a strict liability offence. That means that if you were speeding, and it can be proved you were speeding, you're guilty. Your reasons for speeding will rarely be considered.
The sort of things that might be favourably viewed are:
- rushing to a hospital in an emergency situation
- speeding to prevent a more serious offence. (I'm too tired to think of an example)
- speeding where otherwise life or limb is at risk.
(If I'm repeating myself, sorry .... SERIOUSLY long day)
You're not going to avoid the fine or the points. Sorry. The fact that you have a clean licence actually makes the magistrates LESS likely to not give points because you're not in danger of losing your licence and there will be no adverse effect on your work or other aspects of your life (except for an insurance hike).
Even if you were to avoid the points, you're still going to receive the fine. Your offence wasn't so serious as to warrant a larger fine. The only thing you're going to gain from having a hearing is to be able to make a statement explaining why you were speeding. That statement is going to cost you £35 in addition to the fine and points you would get anyway.
I'm sorry for having to have said this, but best advice is just to take a deep breath and pay your driving windfall tax the same as the rest of us.
911addict said:
1. This was at midnight and very few cars on road, 3 lanes wide each side, therefore 40 miles an hour whilst techically speeding was not a dangerously high speed.
Not being charged with a dangerously high speed just exceeding the 30 speed limit
911addict said:
2. There was a camera some 500 yards earlier that I had not been flashed by, so was travelling under 30 at that moment.
Doesn't matter that is not he location your speed is measured at
911addict said:
3. There was a bus in the inside lane pulling out, so I was using overtaking manoevre temporarily.
Keep this quiet sounds a little dangerous to me
911addict said:
4. I have been driving for 20 years and never been convicted for speeding before.
Irrelevant you driving history is not being questioned
911addict said:
5. I have driven high performance cars for past 6 years, but exercised restraint evidenced by my clean licence.
Irrelevant your driving history is not being questioned
911addict said:
6. My car, being a Porshce has exceptionally good brakes enabling me to stop in a short time and space should the need arise.
but not as good as you think they are relatively speaking
911addict said:
7. I'd admit to the speed, and offer to pay the fine, but request no points as this would blemish my long term record and likely affect my expensive insurance.
The penalty is fixed I don't think they can give less than 3pts
911addict said:
What are the chances of the magistrates being lenient and just fining me, without points?
None
J500ANT said:
You could ask for a speeding awareness course if you worded it well? "I feel the course would help prevent me from speeding in future" etc........ do they do the courses in your area?
True, but if you don't suffer fools gladly it will be very hard to stomach. An extra large sick bag would be in order.
deeps said:
You could ask for a speeding awareness course if you worded it well? "I feel the course would help prevent me from speeding in future" etc........ do they do the courses in your area?
True, but if you don't suffer fools gladly it will be very hard to stomach. An extra large sick bag would be in order.
Im sure I could sit there and look sincere and remorseful if it was me avoiding 3 points.
Lalala i'm not listening lalala
J1mmyD said:
911, I can certainly understand your feelings particularly as this is your first offence following what sounds like many years of driving.
Good luck anyway, but "First Offence", or just "First time caught".....?? not knocking your driving ability at all, just sort of curious, or was it just a one off, lack of concentration.
Yeh, I get the point (...or points).
Yes of course, 20 years driving in Porsches and other sports cars, I have 'occasionally' been known to go "a little" over the limit. Have been amazingly lucky! This time I was just unlucky and well over-due!!.....(and a bit careless not noticing the new second camera- I reckon this one will make them a mintload of cash!)
I'd better check my diary. As we share the cars, it is possible my wife was driving on this particular night.
Thanks for your help, peeps.
PS: This has really shaken me up. Am driving around like a granny, 30 mph everywhere. These pesky cameras are springing up all over the place near where I live. Sign of the times (ahead!). I hate that bloody Blair & co!
>> Edited by 911addict on Saturday 29th April 10:52
Yes of course, 20 years driving in Porsches and other sports cars, I have 'occasionally' been known to go "a little" over the limit. Have been amazingly lucky! This time I was just unlucky and well over-due!!.....(and a bit careless not noticing the new second camera- I reckon this one will make them a mintload of cash!)
I'd better check my diary. As we share the cars, it is possible my wife was driving on this particular night.
Thanks for your help, peeps.
PS: This has really shaken me up. Am driving around like a granny, 30 mph everywhere. These pesky cameras are springing up all over the place near where I live. Sign of the times (ahead!). I hate that bloody Blair & co!
>> Edited by 911addict on Saturday 29th April 10:52
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