Caught drink driving
Discussion
Pat H said:
boobles said:
why would you want to defend people who are clearly braking the law by drink driving? Innocent people get killed by these sort of lunatics & they deserve locking up.
Well, I could give you the usual bollox about the rights of these people to be represented when their liberty is in jeopardy, the fact that they are innocent until proven guilty, that some of them really are wrongly charged, to scrutinise the actions of the police and prosecution, to ensure a fair trial for those incapable of representing themselves, to test the reliability of the evidence etc, etc, etc.
But the main reason I do it is so that I can afford one of these...
a shrubbery !!
Nee
boobles said:
why would you want to defend people who are clearly braking the law by drink driving? Innocent people get killed by these sort of lunatics & they deserve locking up.
"What do we do with witches ? Burn them!"
Pat H said:
But the main reason I do it is so that I can afford one of these...
Game set and match Pat H 
cymtriks said:
Roughly, how many pints of decent beer (a stronger real ale for example) does an ordinary bloke have to drink to get-
a reading of 35 (The legal limit?)
a reading of just over 100 (as in this case)
a reading of circa 140 (as someone above "frequently deals with"
These reading numbers mean nothing to me!
a reading of 35 (The legal limit?)
a reading of just over 100 (as in this case)
a reading of circa 140 (as someone above "frequently deals with"
These reading numbers mean nothing to me!
i am huge and 2 pints of stella puts me on the limit
ie i blow yellow flickering on the red
just after the 2 pints
PS i was tested when not driving and when driving only have 1 pint
Had the chance to blow through one after 4 pints of normal lager. I should point out that I wasn't driving. It registered a warning. I can't remember the details exactly as to what I'd eaten etc and I'm a big bloke. Having said that, there are times when a quick pint on a Friday night and I feel light headed.
If I'm having just one pint I don't take the car, or if I do it's parked and a cab back home. It's just not worth the risk.
If I'm having just one pint I don't take the car, or if I do it's parked and a cab back home. It's just not worth the risk.
Pat H said:
I've been hacking around the local Magistrates' Court for the last ten years and I can't ever recall seeing Special Reasons succeed.
I successfully put forward a "special reasons" plea to escape a ban about 6 years ago.
We had been to a barbecue at a neighbour's house, about 100 yards up the lane. The neighbour's drive, just wide enough for one car, slopes reasonably steeply down to a garage where two couples, who lived further away, had left their cars, one behind the other. Obviously I had no intention of driving - I had no need to. I didn't even have my car keys - they were at home.
I drank two or three beers and a few glasses of wine during the evening, nothing exceptional but more than I would drink if I intended to drive. At about midnight, one couple, whose car was parked below the one at the top of the drive, went to leave (needed to get home for babysitters). The owner of the car at the top needed to move his car so the one behind could get out. I was still in the back garden. After a bit, the owner of the car at the top (or his wife who was driving that night) came back and said she couldn't get their car started. A few of us went round the front to see if we could help but, after another 5-10 minutes, it still wouldn't start. The couple who were leaving, who lived about 7-8 miles away, were getting concerned because of their babysitter. The owner of the top car and I discussed pushing it off the drive but decided against it because of the slope.
Without really thinking about it, I said I would go and get my car and tow the top car off the drive. So I toddled home, said hello to our babysitter, picked up my car keys, went to my car (which was parked in a cul de sac about 20 yards down from my house), and drove it back up to the neighbour's house. All this took about 5 minutes. When I got there, I found that the top car had actually started and the couple who needed to get home had left. So I turned round and drove back down the lane, intending to park my car in the cul de sac where I had collected it from, and go back to the barbecue. I was, literally, 5 yards past our driveway when a copper stepped out and stopped me. Where are you going, is this your car, where have you been etc. Have you been drinking? Well yes. The rest is of course predictable. I blew over the limit at the roadside, was arrested, and blew (I think) about 45 at the station. It seems that the copper was investigating an intruder report by someone living in the cul de sac, saw me take my car and then became curious when he saw it coming back down the lane a few minutes later.
The case ended up in court a month or two later. All of my friends who were at the barbecue turned up in court to give evidence confirming my account and that I appeared perfectly capable of driving. I had a specialist barrister shipped in as well. Anyway, the magistrates accepted a special reasons plea and I ended up with 6 points, £1,000 fine and about £1,000 of my own legal costs - plus hefty insurance increase for the next five years. But no ban.
So - special reasons can be successfully argued but, I agree, the circumstances do need to be unusual.
cymtriks said:
Roughly, how many pints of decent beer (a stronger real ale for example) does an ordinary bloke have to drink to get-
a reading of 35 (The legal limit?)
a reading of just over 100 (as in this case)
a reading of circa 140 (as someone above "frequently deals with"
These reading numbers mean nothing to me!
a reading of 35 (The legal limit?)
a reading of just over 100 (as in this case)
a reading of circa 140 (as someone above "frequently deals with"
These reading numbers mean nothing to me!
From what I know (could be VERY wrong), very rough guides would be:
* Reading of 35: Pint-and-a-half of Stella
* Reading of 100-ish: 4-5 pints of Stella
* Reading of 140+: 6 pints+
Observer2 said:
Pat H said:
I've been hacking around the local Magistrates' Court for the last ten years and I can't ever recall seeing Special Reasons succeed.
I successfully put forward a "special reasons" plea to escape a ban about 6 years ago.
We had been to a barbecue at a neighbour's house, about 100 yards up the lane. The neighbour's drive, just wide enough for one car, slopes reasonably steeply down to a garage where two couples, who lived further away, had left their cars, one behind the other. Obviously I had no intention of driving - I had no need to. I didn't even have my car keys - they were at home.
I drank two or three beers and a few glasses of wine during the evening, nothing exceptional but more than I would drink if I intended to drive. At about midnight, one couple, whose car was parked below the one at the top of the drive, went to leave (needed to get home for babysitters). The owner of the car at the top needed to move his car so the one behind could get out. I was still in the back garden. After a bit, the owner of the car at the top (or his wife who was driving that night) came back and said she couldn't get their car started. A few of us went round the front to see if we could help but, after another 5-10 minutes, it still wouldn't start. The couple who were leaving, who lived about 7-8 miles away, were getting concerned because of their babysitter. The owner of the top car and I discussed pushing it off the drive but decided against it because of the slope.
Without really thinking about it, I said I would go and get my car and tow the top car off the drive. So I toddled home, said hello to our babysitter, picked up my car keys, went to my car (which was parked in a cul de sac about 20 yards down from my house), and drove it back up to the neighbour's house. All this took about 5 minutes. When I got there, I found that the top car had actually started and the couple who needed to get home had left. So I turned round and drove back down the lane, intending to park my car in the cul de sac where I had collected it from, and go back to the barbecue. I was, literally, 5 yards past our driveway when a copper stepped out and stopped me. Where are you going, is this your car, where have you been etc. Have you been drinking? Well yes. The rest is of course predictable. I blew over the limit at the roadside, was arrested, and blew (I think) about 45 at the station. It seems that the copper was investigating an intruder report by someone living in the cul de sac, saw me take my car and then became curious when he saw it coming back down the lane a few minutes later.
The case ended up in court a month or two later. All of my friends who were at the barbecue turned up in court to give evidence confirming my account and that I appeared perfectly capable of driving. I had a specialist barrister shipped in as well. Anyway, the magistrates accepted a special reasons plea and I ended up with 6 points, £1,000 fine and about £1,000 of my own legal costs - plus hefty insurance increase for the next five years. But no ban.
So - special reasons can be successfully argued but, I agree, the circumstances do need to be unusual.
You were lucky, sir. Was the magistarte in the same Lodge as you?!
I was a criminal barrister for five years and never once got a special reasons decision. Fair play to you, but IMHO your case was not speical reasons at all.
Drink driving isnt big or clever, its just for selfish idiots who take innocent lives each year, by there mindless acts of madness! Anyone caught doing it & being pissed i mean , not just by having 1 or 2 pints, should be locked up for a very long time, because it really isnt clever boys & girls!
. Very.
zadumbreion said:
Magnum said:
I am a solicitor who defends criminals for a living
Surely you meant "alleged" or "suspected" criminals????
Yep, you are quite right.
But as most of them plead guilty, I tend to generalise.
My job mainly consists of making excuses to the magistrates on behalf of the inadequate and ineloquent, who readily aggept their wrongdoing.
I regard myself as a gobby social worker as much as a solicitor.
Pat H
We had been to a barbecue at a neighbour's house, about 100 yards up the lane.
Do you know at which point the "Distance travelled " defence becomes N/A. Under circumstances where people think that 'special reasons' should apply, distance travelled very often seems to be the only defence.
Nice shrubbery BTW
Observer2 said:
We had been to a barbecue at a neighbour's house, about 100 yards up the lane.
Do you know at which point the "Distance travelled " defence becomes N/A. Under circumstances where people think that 'special reasons' should apply, distance travelled very often seems to be the only defence.
Nice shrubbery BTW
Edited by do80 on Tuesday 8th August 12:28
do80 said:
Pat H
We had been to a barbecue at a neighbour's house, about 100 yards up the lane.
Do you know at which point the "Distance travelled " defence becomes N/A. Under circumstances where people think that 'special reasons' should apply, distance travelled very often seems to be the only defence.
I am amazed that Observer2 was successful. Observer2 said:
We had been to a barbecue at a neighbour's house, about 100 yards up the lane.
Do you know at which point the "Distance travelled " defence becomes N/A. Under circumstances where people think that 'special reasons' should apply, distance travelled very often seems to be the only defence.
Usually, Special Reasons could only work if you move your car from the pavement outside your house onto the drive, or some other similarly short distance.
Even then, you would have to show that there were compelling reasons to drive.
In short, it is such a difficult argument to win that it should never be relied on as a justification for getting behind the wheel when pissed.
It is not actually a "defence", but a form of mitigation advanced following a guilty plea in the hope that the magistrates might be persuaded not to disqualify.
Whether the "distance travelled" is reasonable will be determined by the magistrates. One of the most important considerations is the likelihood of coming into contact with other road users. Hence, time of day and location are equally as important as the actual distance travelled.
The odds are massively against the argument succeeding.
Thanks for that, I wasn't sure about the fact that it is a mitigating circumstance rather than a defence either.
I've seen it used twice, the one occasion to move a car to a well lit location in the pub car park, ok it was a mate so I'm glad it worked for him but it could equally have been used by someone thinking on their feet who had just been nicked whilst intending to actually leave the premises. In this instance I know he wasn't going to drive on the public road as it was my car and he thought that he was doing me a favour by moving it as he was less pissed than me, usual story though, he thought he was ok as it was private ground!
I've seen it used twice, the one occasion to move a car to a well lit location in the pub car park, ok it was a mate so I'm glad it worked for him but it could equally have been used by someone thinking on their feet who had just been nicked whilst intending to actually leave the premises. In this instance I know he wasn't going to drive on the public road as it was my car and he thought that he was doing me a favour by moving it as he was less pissed than me, usual story though, he thought he was ok as it was private ground!
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