Being in control of a car
Discussion
You have no medical condition which could lead you to suddenly lose consciouseness, yet you claim, somehow, that your car, of it's own accord, accelerated into an accident at the very moment you lost consciouseness?
It does sound strange.
You've never driven at top speed down the A1 in a BMW 318 because the car just 'accelerated all by itself' have you?
It does sound strange.
You've never driven at top speed down the A1 in a BMW 318 because the car just 'accelerated all by itself' have you?
davido140 said:
"In charge" doesn't have a clearly-defined definition in law, but can be taken to mean that someone is in a position to take control of a vehicle.
so by that rationale I could be shit faced at home and simply having my car keys in my pocket would mean I was in position to take control of a vehicle...
If I went to the car to fetch some booze from something like sunnies I could also be in the poop.
You could be arrested for being drunk in charge under those circumstances, but you’ve got to remember the statutory defence…so by that rationale I could be shit faced at home and simply having my car keys in my pocket would mean I was in position to take control of a vehicle...
If I went to the car to fetch some booze from something like sunnies I could also be in the poop.
If the defendant can show that there was no likelihood that they were going to drive whilst they were still drunk, then they will be acquitted at court.
It's like a lot of other laws - it could be abused by an over-zealous Officer, but as soon as they walked through the custody office door, questions would start to be asked. These days, we have to convince the CPS that we've got a strong case before we even charge someone, so unless it was a strong case, they'd soon be walking out of the back door.
theboyfold said:
To me it seems harsh that you can be done for sleeping in a car whilst drunk, even if you are on the back seats.
Especially seeing as he could have probably driven home completely pissed and no-one would be any the wiser. I'm not advocating it in any way but given the lack of police presence in general it makes me wonder whether he wouldn't just have been better off being selfish and reckless. What incentive is there to behave responsibly if you're going to get bum-
ed anyway?R_U_LOCAL said:
As for question 1, there would be no offence, as the specific offence of using a mobile phone can only be committed if you're driving at the same time. Being in a stationary, (parked - not stationary in traffic) car whilst on the phone is not an offence.
Just to clarify, the first draft of the offence covered all times whilst the journey is still underway. Debate in Parliament at the time raised the issue that stopping to buy a paper mid-journey and answering the phone would thus be illegal. IIRC they didn't amend, but rather said they'd rely on common sense of the officers (rather than drafting good legislation)."in charge" really means that you were going to drive it. The other factors are in place, i mean if i wasnt in charge of my car atm it would have to be bloody stolen wouldnt it?
Its not meant to serve as some "bar" from entering your car while drunk, you do not forfeit your right over 1 pint.
A simple test would be to consider a situation when your car is in a public place and you are drunk, you are walking to your car with your keys in hand, police officer appears behind you, what are you doing? What would you say, what would be reasonable and how would that be evidenced?
There are numerous reasons, i left the window open, ive lost my phone, im checking its locked, im going to show my friend my new car, ive been to the pub had too many and im going to move all objects into the boot, the list goes on.....
Consider this, if you live alone and go outside to get something from the car/check its locked its unlikely you will have locked your front door, have your wallet and housekeys with you, put on a coat and turned all your lights off. If you are leaving it somewhere overnight it is prudent to move all objects into the boot, hence their must be something for you to move to have done that, if not why are you in it, why not try the handle.
If you are drunk while washing the car it is unlikely you are going to pull away whith the car covered in soap and all your materials lying about the road.
There is something to be said if when you are caught that the car is in a place where one would assume you would intend to leave it.
Thinking about public place, If you are on a driveway the public have access then it can still be regarded as a public place however a gated driveway (implying the gates are closed) is not a place the public have access to.
The whole underlying point of the offence is that there is a danger to the public when you are drink driving and there is reason to stop a person who seems to be going to do such.
Which comes back to my original point if you were asked what would you say you were doing? Its quite simple, a reasonable answer will ensure no action is brought, a polite answer will ensure the plod dont label you a lout and decide to pull you anyway.
Earlier it was asked about eating a mcdonalds with the engine running. You see a car parked and a car driving can be a pretty clear distinction, if you are in a parking space your car is parked therefore you are not driving. Consider the reverse, if having the engine on and being stationary in a parking space/at the side of the road was legal and if i had a car which could be left with the engine running and the keys in it but also locked with the spare key then i could say to anyone trying to give me a parking ticket. Im still driving the car is not parked.
Its not meant to serve as some "bar" from entering your car while drunk, you do not forfeit your right over 1 pint.
A simple test would be to consider a situation when your car is in a public place and you are drunk, you are walking to your car with your keys in hand, police officer appears behind you, what are you doing? What would you say, what would be reasonable and how would that be evidenced?
There are numerous reasons, i left the window open, ive lost my phone, im checking its locked, im going to show my friend my new car, ive been to the pub had too many and im going to move all objects into the boot, the list goes on.....
Consider this, if you live alone and go outside to get something from the car/check its locked its unlikely you will have locked your front door, have your wallet and housekeys with you, put on a coat and turned all your lights off. If you are leaving it somewhere overnight it is prudent to move all objects into the boot, hence their must be something for you to move to have done that, if not why are you in it, why not try the handle.
If you are drunk while washing the car it is unlikely you are going to pull away whith the car covered in soap and all your materials lying about the road.
There is something to be said if when you are caught that the car is in a place where one would assume you would intend to leave it.
Thinking about public place, If you are on a driveway the public have access then it can still be regarded as a public place however a gated driveway (implying the gates are closed) is not a place the public have access to.
The whole underlying point of the offence is that there is a danger to the public when you are drink driving and there is reason to stop a person who seems to be going to do such.
Which comes back to my original point if you were asked what would you say you were doing? Its quite simple, a reasonable answer will ensure no action is brought, a polite answer will ensure the plod dont label you a lout and decide to pull you anyway.
Earlier it was asked about eating a mcdonalds with the engine running. You see a car parked and a car driving can be a pretty clear distinction, if you are in a parking space your car is parked therefore you are not driving. Consider the reverse, if having the engine on and being stationary in a parking space/at the side of the road was legal and if i had a car which could be left with the engine running and the keys in it but also locked with the spare key then i could say to anyone trying to give me a parking ticket. Im still driving the car is not parked.
OK - how about this one. I'm driving my car without any alcohol consumption at all. The gf is in the passenger seat having had 3 or 4 glasses of wine. In other words, she couldn't drive. I'm low on fuel, so stop to fill up. I leave the keys in the ignition to leave to radio on for her while I go and pay. Is she now "in control of the vehicle"?
fatboy b said:
OK - how about this one. I'm driving my car without any alcohol consumption at all. The gf is in the passenger seat having had 3 or 4 glasses of wine. In other words, she couldn't drive. I'm low on fuel, so stop to fill up. I leave the keys in the ignition to leave to radio on for her while I go and pay. Is she now "in control of the vehicle"?
If you've driven into a petrol forecourt, you're filling up with fuel, and she's in the passenger seat, then you're not going to be prosecuted successfully. Plus, 9 times out of 10, you'd have CCTV evidence to back up your version of events.fatboy b said:
OK - how about this one. I'm driving my car without any alcohol consumption at all. The gf is in the passenger seat having had 3 or 4 glasses of wine. In other words, she couldn't drive. I'm low on fuel, so stop to fill up. I leave the keys in the ignition to leave to radio on for her while I go and pay. Is she now "in control of the vehicle"?
No, There is no intention for her to drive and does not make any overt steps to take control of the car. The car is still in you posession, keys are not like deeds, although she is looking after the car and keys she just happens to be in it. If leaving the keys in the car while filling up was loosing your control over the car then what if theoretically you were by yourself, have you lost control of the car just because you got out and left the keys in it. Theoretically though, if she did move it and you left the keys in for that purpose then in a garage forecourt(a public place) then she would be in charge if she moved/drove it and you would be guilty of the relevant statutory provisions of permitting/art and part type.
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