Zero tolerance
Discussion
Mr_annie_vxr said:
No your right. All your kids are not your responsibility. The fact that people are no longer willing to accept responosibility for their own behaviour or actions is not mine.
Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
I would think most of the posters here work for a living, pay their taxes, bring up their children well and only break motoring laws.Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
The Police have always been involved in many of the areas of responsibility you complain about. What has changed is the way the Police work. That is the source of much of the 'crap'.
As for MOP taking on more responsibility in the streets, the courts have seen to it that anyone getting involved runs too high a risk of prosecution.
Society has changed in response to changes in the law and its interpretation. It doesnt do any good when senior Police representatives keep saying that the public should not get involved.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
No your right. All your kids are not your responsibility. The fact that people are no longer willing to accept responosibility for their own behaviour or actions is not mine.
Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
But don't you get paid to do "your bit"Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
Unfortunately, I do not earn Police wages, so I go to work and do my bit for my job and my family.
Most of the Police I have met recently, are very young, very small, very condescending, very arrogant, and seriously not like-able charcters.
Yes, society is to blame, and most of it is down to new European directives and laws. If I was unlucky enough to become Prime Minister of this godforsaken country, I would remove all Human and Civil rights of anybody who has violated the rights of another person.Sling the t
ts into a cell, weld the door shut, put a small hole in the door for the tts familt to feed them, and if they don't get fed.............Tough shit. Thats got rid of another scrote at no cost to us..s2art said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
No your right. All your kids are not your responsibility. The fact that people are no longer willing to accept responosibility for their own behaviour or actions is not mine.
Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
I would think most of the posters here work for a living, pay their taxes, bring up their children well and only break motoring laws.Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
The Police have always been involved in many of the areas of responsibility you complain about. What has changed is the way the Police work. That is the source of much of the 'crap'.
As for MOP taking on more responsibility in the streets, the courts have seen to it that anyone getting involved runs too high a risk of prosecution.
Society has changed in response to changes in the law and its interpretation. It doesnt do any good when senior Police representatives keep saying that the public should not get involved.
Taking responsibility is not about becoming a vigilante. Its about conducting yourself in a way so as to take account of the effect upon others.
delboy735 said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
No your right. All your kids are not your responsibility. The fact that people are no longer willing to accept responosibility for their own behaviour or actions is not mine.
Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
But don't you get paid to do "your bit"Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
Unfortunately, I do not earn Police wages, so I go to work and do my bit for my job and my family.
Most of the Police I have met recently, are very young, very small, very condescending, very arrogant, and seriously not like-able charcters.
Yes, society is to blame, and most of it is down to new European directives and laws. If I was unlucky enough to become Prime Minister of this godforsaken country, I would remove all Human and Civil rights of anybody who has violated the rights of another person.Sling the t
ts into a cell, weld the door shut, put a small hole in the door for the tts familt to feed them, and if they don't get fed.............Tough shit. Thats got rid of another scrote at no cost to us..Police have always been young. The wages are such that mature people of the calibre wanted already earn way above the joining wage. I have officers who have halved their wages to join. It would also depend on the context you meet them in. In my experience behaviour earns bahviour. There are a minority of officers who I don't like but Im about as reasonable as it gets and have still had arguments with people at the roadside.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
s2art said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
No your right. All your kids are not your responsibility. The fact that people are no longer willing to accept responosibility for their own behaviour or actions is not mine.
Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
I would think most of the posters here work for a living, pay their taxes, bring up their children well and only break motoring laws.Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
The Police have always been involved in many of the areas of responsibility you complain about. What has changed is the way the Police work. That is the source of much of the 'crap'.
As for MOP taking on more responsibility in the streets, the courts have seen to it that anyone getting involved runs too high a risk of prosecution.
Society has changed in response to changes in the law and its interpretation. It doesnt do any good when senior Police representatives keep saying that the public should not get involved.
Taking responsibility is not about becoming a vigilante. Its about conducting yourself in a way so as to take account of the effect upon others.
Not sure what you are getting at with your second point. Most people do take into account their effect on other people, but there has always been a minority of scrotes around who dont give a damn.
In the past few months, I have met approx 6 officers. Only one seemd to have anything resembling a personality. I have been driving for 20 odd yrs, never been stopped, no points, no accidents in last 21 yrs, not even a parking ticket....yeah, I know, sad! But recently, my youngest son has been involved with wrong crowd, and this has resulted in few visits from the Police. Like I said, only one seemed to be on this planet, and not up his own arse.
As for doing my bit, I will do everything possible for my own family, and that's it.They are the only ones who warrant and appreciate my support. If I see any trouble, I will contact Police, and then walk away, and leave no personal details.Yes, they do ask for your details, but I say I would rather remain anonymous thank-you.
Oh, yes.....I also do approx 5hrs per week unpaid overtime thank-you.
As for doing my bit, I will do everything possible for my own family, and that's it.They are the only ones who warrant and appreciate my support. If I see any trouble, I will contact Police, and then walk away, and leave no personal details.Yes, they do ask for your details, but I say I would rather remain anonymous thank-you.
Oh, yes.....I also do approx 5hrs per week unpaid overtime thank-you.
delboy735 said:
In the past few months, I have met approx 6 officers. Only one seemd to have anything resembling a personality. I have been driving for 20 odd yrs, never been stopped, no points, no accidents in last 21 yrs, not even a parking ticket....yeah, I know, sad! But recently, my youngest son has been involved with wrong crowd, and this has resulted in few visits from the Police. Like I said, only one seemed to be on this planet, and not up his own arse.
As for doing my bit, I will do everything possible for my own family, and that's it.They are the only ones who warrant and appreciate my support. If I see any trouble, I will contact Police, and then walk away, and leave no personal details.Yes, they do ask for your details, but I say I would rather remain anonymous thank-you.
Oh, yes.....I also do approx 5hrs per week unpaid overtime thank-you.
Wouldn't the UK be a great place if everyone adopted that attitude?As for doing my bit, I will do everything possible for my own family, and that's it.They are the only ones who warrant and appreciate my support. If I see any trouble, I will contact Police, and then walk away, and leave no personal details.Yes, they do ask for your details, but I say I would rather remain anonymous thank-you.
Oh, yes.....I also do approx 5hrs per week unpaid overtime thank-you.
Chrispy Porker said:
An example
Mental Health Act
Because the Govt will not invest in adequate provision for mentally ill people, a police cell is still deemed a place of safety where such unfortunates can be detained.
Even if, as on one occasion, I have to allocate 4 (four) officers at a time to restrain the man . Continually. For 9 hours.
I remain to be convinced that this is a proper use of resources. However as the law stands it was the duty of the police to perform this role.
I am sure the public would rather
a. the man was treated by medical staff in a hospital and
b, the police officers were out catching criminals.
Mental Health Act
Because the Govt will not invest in adequate provision for mentally ill people, a police cell is still deemed a place of safety where such unfortunates can be detained.
Even if, as on one occasion, I have to allocate 4 (four) officers at a time to restrain the man . Continually. For 9 hours.
I remain to be convinced that this is a proper use of resources. However as the law stands it was the duty of the police to perform this role.
I am sure the public would rather
a. the man was treated by medical staff in a hospital and
b, the police officers were out catching criminals.
...and the really crazy thing is that it would probably cost far less in the long(ish) run to do it right.
There's far too much knee-jerking and far too little integrated planning in government.
The fact that many of the departments of state seem more concerned with maintaining ancient empires than good governance doesn't help at all.
FishFace said:
davido140 said:
wish they could do that in a town center, or a housing estate, Zero Tolerance on yobs, hoodies, burglars, pissed idiots..
If a hundred or so police descended on your local area and rounded up all the nobbers and stuck em with a fine...
Yes a fine for hanging around and being "hoodies". If a hundred or so police descended on your local area and rounded up all the nobbers and stuck em with a fine...
I thought this forum championed accountability and fairness. Only with traffic?
s2art said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
No your right. All your kids are not your responsibility. The fact that people are no longer willing to accept responosibility for their own behaviour or actions is not mine.
Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
I would think most of the posters here work for a living, pay their taxes, bring up their children well and only break motoring laws.Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
The Police have always been involved in many of the areas of responsibility you complain about. What has changed is the way the Police work. That is the source of much of the 'crap'.
As for MOP taking on more responsibility in the streets, the courts have seen to it that anyone getting involved runs too high a risk of prosecution.
Society has changed in response to changes in the law and its interpretation. It doesnt do any good when senior Police representatives keep saying that the public should not get involved.
Someone attack me und I give him kick which give him high pitched voice forever ./.. I get done for denying him his rights to father yobs like him
I see person being attacked in street und chuck some pepper in eyes und nose .. I get done for some sort of assault.
In all these cases - I am told not to DIY it but to call a cop.
I see policeman being kicked to death by bunch of yobs und decide to walk on by to find a phone (as I often forget to bring Handy
) /other person to get help .. I get done for not helping save the officer. We all work hard for our livings.. medical profession/teachers/fire crews face dangers from these yobs but cannot lock them up.
We cannot defend ourselves because as lieber st2art say - we face prosecution ourselves if we defend ourselves und our belongings. We are told to call a cop und not get involved.
However, I do not call a cop to come to sort out a broken fingernail or some other nonsense. I call a cop when I need one just as I call my doctor when I need him. (Mad Doc my husband. He not allowed to be my doctor as well
He not allowed to treat me or prescribe anything for me. That unethical und doctors & their families have to be prescribed medication by objective medical practioner just the same as everyone else. We not allowed to write out own prescriptions for us & ours. It gets a medic struck off .. ) WildCat said:
s2art said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
No your right. All your kids are not your responsibility. The fact that people are no longer willing to accept responosibility for their own behaviour or actions is not mine.
Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
I would think most of the posters here work for a living, pay their taxes, bring up their children well and only break motoring laws.Society is where it is not because of the police. Its only managing to stop from sliding further down than it already has because of work of the police fighting an ever growing lawless lack or respect attitude. Each person in society is responsible. Its beacause so many absolve that responisiblity as shown by some posts on here that we are in this mess. Until poeple accept responsibility for their own behaviour an start acting with consideration for the impact they have aupon others rather than putting their own self centred interests forward then we will continue down the slope.
As for the police failing. We are, yes I agree. Not for want of trying but every day we are asked to do more and more with less and less. Let me fight crime not deal with the other 70 % of crap and I'll give you a good service. Campaign for less rights for criminals, for longer jail terms and a complaints system that doesn't tie up hard working officers.
No-one is though. I do my bit. What do you as individuals do day in day out to preserve our society?
The Police have always been involved in many of the areas of responsibility you complain about. What has changed is the way the Police work. That is the source of much of the 'crap'.
As for MOP taking on more responsibility in the streets, the courts have seen to it that anyone getting involved runs too high a risk of prosecution.
Society has changed in response to changes in the law and its interpretation. It doesnt do any good when senior Police representatives keep saying that the public should not get involved.
Someone attack me und I give him kick which give him high pitched voice forever ./.. I get done for denying him his rights to father yobs like him
I see person being attacked in street und chuck some pepper in eyes und nose .. I get done for some sort of assault.
In all these cases - I am told not to DIY it but to call a cop.
I see policeman being kicked to death by bunch of yobs und decide to walk on by to find a phone (as I often forget to bring Handy
) /other person to get help .. I get done for not helping save the officer. We all work hard for our livings.. medical profession/teachers/fire crews face dangers from these yobs but cannot lock them up.
We cannot defend ourselves because as lieber st2art say - we face prosecution ourselves if we defend ourselves und our belongings. We are told to call a cop und not get involved.
However, I do not call a cop to come to sort out a broken fingernail or some other nonsense. I call a cop when I need one just as I call my doctor when I need him. (Mad Doc my husband. He not allowed to be my doctor as well
He not allowed to treat me or prescribe anything for me. That unethical und doctors & their families have to be prescribed medication by objective medical practioner just the same as everyone else. We not allowed to write out own prescriptions for us & ours. It gets a medic struck off .. ) You will not be prosecuted for using reasonable force. If you are and are found guilty then its twelve people like you who found you guilty. Not the police.
ipsg.glf said:
XMG5 said:
It's not society's place to "win back the streets" it's the responsibility of the police. Why do they always assert it's the public's responsibility to help when they are seen to be failing in their role? The police are paid, trained and employed to do the job of "keeping the Queen's peace" in all it's guises. Why have a dog and bark yourself?
This is probably one of the most ignorance comments I've ever read on PH.Edited by XMG5 on Friday 31st August 14:25
Go to the nick in your nearest largish town and ask the Duty Inspector how many officers are on duty this evening? I think you'll be suprised at how low the numbers are.
I have a few mates who are BiBs and some of the tales they tell of what they have to deal with are horrifying.
Yes I had paperwork, yes I had prisoners, yes I was unable to go out on patrol because of handovers BUT I still took every opportunity to patrol the streets whenever I could.
In a car or on foot I patrolled whenever I had down time, however in frequent that was, or however short the opportunity to do so. I would patrol the housing estates as well as the city centre.
I know there are few on duty in any one tour BUT that's the way it has always been. It's not new and it's not the excuse that so many mke it out to be. It doesn't stop you from making an effort to get out and be seen, it's a question of pride in what you do. That's what seems to be missing nowadays the high visibilty of patrols, not the PCSOs the real deal. All we get is more excuses, and more shedding of responsibility.
That's why I say the police should regain THEIR place on the streets not pass the buck to the public.
When you visit the doctor or A&E or hospital you expect a certain level of treatment, you expect to be dealt with by the experts in medical care not the porter or the cleaning lady. When we want the public order/graffiti/damage dealt with we don't want to be told that it's our responsibility first and formost.
Yes, as a responsible parent we should know where our kids are, but because of those who don't take their responsiblities seriously, the rest of us should not be expected to share the blame for innefffective or non-existent policing. There has always been a part of society who avoid their responsibilities and want the police to wipe their a*rse for them, but there seems fewer police officers prepared to be seen than ever before, hw many readers of these posts can say they regularly see patrolling police officers on a daily basis. High profile presence in your towns and villages?
I had a vested interest in seeing my colleagues on the streets and was saddened and surprised how few I ever saw away from the nick.
I always felt that I genuinely did my best to be seen and act as a deterrent, perhaps in an old fashioned way I felt the public felt safer walking through unlit streets late at night if they could see a uniform presence.
I cannot escape the feeling that the current ACPO and to some extent the lower ranks are betraying the public and more importantly the police officers who have worked over the years to better effect with the same resources as you have today, but with less technology. I am not talking Dixon of Dock Green here and draw on my experience of 4years ago.
I maintain contact with serving police officers who remain friends from my days in the job and from what they tell me there are a lot of unhappy people in the job, unhappy at what it has been allowed to become.
So please, don't accuse me of being ignorant, I am not, nor am I your average Joe Soap Public who can be dismissed with PR Speak, Management Speak, I know-better-than-you-cos-I'm-a-policeman-speak or worse PC Speak (Political Correctness). It doesn't impress those of us who have been there done that and got the, albeit grubby, T-shirt.
Edited by XMG5 on Monday 3rd September 12:28
XMG5 said:
ipsg.glf said:
XMG5 said:
It's not society's place to "win back the streets" it's the responsibility of the police. Why do they always assert it's the public's responsibility to help when they are seen to be failing in their role? The police are paid, trained and employed to do the job of "keeping the Queen's peace" in all it's guises. Why have a dog and bark yourself?
This is probably one of the most ignorance comments I've ever read on PH.Edited by XMG5 on Friday 31st August 14:25
Go to the nick in your nearest largish town and ask the Duty Inspector how many officers are on duty this evening? I think you'll be suprised at how low the numbers are.
I have a few mates who are BiBs and some of the tales they tell of what they have to deal with are horrifying.
Yes I had paperwork, yes I had prisoners, yes I was unable to go out on patrol because of handovers BUT I still took every opportunity to patrol the streets whenever I could.
In a car or on foot I patrolled whenever I had down time, however in frequent that was, or however short the opportunity to do so. I would patrol the housing estates as well as the city centre.
I know there are few on duty in any one tour BUT that's the way it has always been. It's not new and it's not the excuse that so many mke it out to be. It doesn't stop you from making an effort to get out and be seen, it's a question of pride in what you do. That's what seems to be missing nowadays the high visibilty of patrols, not the PCSOs the real deal. All we get is more excuses, and more shedding of responsibility.
That's why I say the police should regain THEIR place on the streets not pass the buck to the public.
When you visit the doctor or A&E or hospital you expect a certain level of treatment, you expect to be dealt with by the experts in medical care not the porter or the cleaning lady. When we want the public order/graffiti/damage dealt with we don't want to be told that it's our responsibility first and formost.
Yes, as a responsible parent we should know where our kids are, but because of those who don't take their responsiblities seriously, the rest of us should not be expected to share the blame for innefffective or non-existent policing. There has always been a part of society who avoid their responsibilities and want the police to wipe their a*rse for them, but there seems fewer police officers prepared to be seen than ever before, hw many readers of these posts can say they regularly see patrolling police officers on a daily basis. High profile presence in your towns and villages?
I had a vested interest in seeing my colleagues on the streets and was saddened and surprised how few I ever saw away from the nick.
I always felt that I genuinely did my best to be seen and act as a deterrent, perhaps in an old fashioned way I felt the public felt safer walking through unlit streets late at night if they could see a uniform presence.
I cannot escape the feeling that the current ACPO and to some extent the lower ranks are betraying the public and more importantly the police officers who have worked over the years to better effect with the same resources as you have today, but with less technology. I am not talking Dixon of Dock Green here and draw on my experience of 4years ago.
I maintain contact with serving police officers who remain friends from my days in the job and from what they tell me there are a lot of unhappy people in the job, unhappy at what it has been allowed to become.
So please, don't accuse me of being ignorant, I am not, nor am I your average Joe Soap Public who can be dismissed with PR Speak, Management Speak, I know-better-than-you-cos-I'm-a-policeman-speak or worse PC Speak (Political Correctness). It doesn't impress those of us who have been there done that and got the, albeit grubby, T-shirt.
Edited by XMG5 on Monday 3rd September 12:28
XMG5 said:
ipsg.glf said:
XMG5 said:
It's not society's place to "win back the streets" it's the responsibility of the police. Why do they always assert it's the public's responsibility to help when they are seen to be failing in their role? The police are paid, trained and employed to do the job of "keeping the Queen's peace" in all it's guises. Why have a dog and bark yourself?
This is probably one of the most ignorance comments I've ever read on PH.Edited by XMG5 on Friday 31st August 14:25
Go to the nick in your nearest largish town and ask the Duty Inspector how many officers are on duty this evening? I think you'll be suprised at how low the numbers are.
I have a few mates who are BiBs and some of the tales they tell of what they have to deal with are horrifying.
Yes I had paperwork, yes I had prisoners, yes I was unable to go out on patrol because of handovers BUT I still took every opportunity to patrol the streets whenever I could.
In a car or on foot I patrolled whenever I had down time, however in frequent that was, or however short the opportunity to do so. I would patrol the housing estates as well as the city centre.
I know there are few on duty in any one tour BUT that's the way it has always been. It's not new and it's not the excuse that so many mke it out to be. It doesn't stop you from making an effort to get out and be seen, it's a question of pride in what you do. That's what seems to be missing nowadays the high visibilty of patrols, not the PCSOs the real deal. All we get is more excuses, and more shedding of responsibility.
That's why I say the police should regain THEIR place on the streets not pass the buck to the public.
When you visit the doctor or A&E or hospital you expect a certain level of treatment, you expect to be dealt with by the experts in medical care not the porter or the cleaning lady. When we want the public order/graffiti/damage dealt with we don't want to be told that it's our responsibility first and formost.
Yes, as a responsible parent we should know where our kids are, but because of those who don't take their responsiblities seriously, the rest of us should not be expected to share the blame for innefffective or non-existent policing. There has always been a part of society who avoid their responsibilities and want the police to wipe their a*rse for them, but there seems fewer police officers prepared to be seen than ever before, hw many readers of these posts can say they regularly see patrolling police officers on a daily basis. High profile presence in your towns and villages?
I had a vested interest in seeing my colleagues on the streets and was saddened and surprised how few I ever saw away from the nick.
I always felt that I genuinely did my best to be seen and act as a deterrent, perhaps in an old fashioned way I felt the public felt safer walking through unlit streets late at night if they could see a uniform presence.
I cannot escape the feeling that the current ACPO and to some extent the lower ranks are betraying the public and more importantly the police officers who have worked over the years to better effect with the same resources as you have today, but with less technology. I am not talking Dixon of Dock Green here and draw on my experience of 4years ago.
I maintain contact with serving police officers who remain friends from my days in the job and from what they tell me there are a lot of unhappy people in the job, unhappy at what it has been allowed to become.
So please, don't accuse me of being ignorant, I am not, nor am I your average Joe Soap Public who can be dismissed with PR Speak, Management Speak, I know-better-than-you-cos-I'm-a-policeman-speak or worse PC Speak (Political Correctness). It doesn't impress those of us who have been there done that and got the, albeit grubby, T-shirt.
Edited by XMG5 on Monday 3rd September 12:28
A whole host of impactive changes have as they always do happened in 4 years and no doubt they will again in the next 4 years. The police service changes day in day out and not always for the better.
As regards high pofile officers on foot. A whole host of research has shown that it actually makes no difference to recorded crime but does make people feel safer. The call volume was different when we had officers everywhere on foot. People never rang in as much. This increased thus the need for officers in cars who in turn had to come from somewhere and so the drip away of officers happened.
Put officers out wandering on foot on my area and I will show you an officer in ten hours who will attend one or two calls and maybe a couple of stops. Criminals are highly mobile as are most the 'scum' as such you need a vehicle to deal with them. We are not living 15 20 or 30 years ago when people had a sense of social responsibility. Thats all changed and thats nothing to do with the police service but we are picking up the pieces.
As for police working to better effect? If thats the case then what changed? Suddenly your saying we all got lazy and wanted to sit on the police station. Having known a lot of officers and still knowing officers and having been in the police service 12 years. Its my view the officer on the street is working a lot harder than ever before.
XMG5 said:
ipsg.glf said:
XMG5 said:
It's not society's place to "win back the streets" it's the responsibility of the police. Why do they always assert it's the public's responsibility to help when they are seen to be failing in their role? The police are paid, trained and employed to do the job of "keeping the Queen's peace" in all it's guises. Why have a dog and bark yourself?
This is probably one of the most ignorance comments I've ever read on PH.Edited by XMG5 on Friday 31st August 14:25
Go to the nick in your nearest largish town and ask the Duty Inspector how many officers are on duty this evening? I think you'll be suprised at how low the numbers are.
I have a few mates who are BiBs and some of the tales they tell of what they have to deal with are horrifying.
Yes I had paperwork, yes I had prisoners, yes I was unable to go out on patrol because of handovers BUT I still took every opportunity to patrol the streets whenever I could.
In a car or on foot I patrolled whenever I had down time, however in frequent that was, or however short the opportunity to do so. I would patrol the housing estates as well as the city centre.
I know there are few on duty in any one tour BUT that's the way it has always been. It's not new and it's not the excuse that so many mke it out to be. It doesn't stop you from making an effort to get out and be seen, it's a question of pride in what you do. That's what seems to be missing nowadays the high visibilty of patrols, not the PCSOs the real deal. All we get is more excuses, and more shedding of responsibility.
That's why I say the police should regain THEIR place on the streets not pass the buck to the public.
When you visit the doctor or A&E or hospital you expect a certain level of treatment, you expect to be dealt with by the experts in medical care not the porter or the cleaning lady. When we want the public order/graffiti/damage dealt with we don't want to be told that it's our responsibility first and formost.
Yes, as a responsible parent we should know where our kids are, but because of those who don't take their responsiblities seriously, the rest of us should not be expected to share the blame for innefffective or non-existent policing. There has always been a part of society who avoid their responsibilities and want the police to wipe their a*rse for them, but there seems fewer police officers prepared to be seen than ever before, hw many readers of these posts can say they regularly see patrolling police officers on a daily basis. High profile presence in your towns and villages?
I had a vested interest in seeing my colleagues on the streets and was saddened and surprised how few I ever saw away from the nick.
I always felt that I genuinely did my best to be seen and act as a deterrent, perhaps in an old fashioned way I felt the public felt safer walking through unlit streets late at night if they could see a uniform presence.
I cannot escape the feeling that the current ACPO and to some extent the lower ranks are betraying the public and more importantly the police officers who have worked over the years to better effect with the same resources as you have today, but with less technology. I am not talking Dixon of Dock Green here and draw on my experience of 4years ago.
I maintain contact with serving police officers who remain friends from my days in the job and from what they tell me there are a lot of unhappy people in the job, unhappy at what it has been allowed to become.
So please, don't accuse me of being ignorant, I am not, nor am I your average Joe Soap Public who can be dismissed with PR Speak, Management Speak, I know-better-than-you-cos-I'm-a-policeman-speak or worse PC Speak (Political Correctness). It doesn't impress those of us who have been there done that and got the, albeit grubby, T-shirt.
Edited by XMG5 on Monday 3rd September 12:28
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