A story of dishonesty, daylight robbery, disgust and deceit.
Discussion
vonhosen said:
I guess they'll say that the terms & conditions of use for the parking space, is that it is for collection of goods only. They've watched you walk straight past the collection point at the back & go into the store at the front. You won't be able to produce evidence that you had previously purchased & had gone into the store to collect. In fact the times on your receipt will show that you entered the store to shop/purchase, purchasing the TV after parking.
Not really the point though, Von.Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 15:14
The customer parked there knowing, subject to the stock being available (assuming he hadn't already held the product online, that is), that he would be loading an item as part of his visit to the shop.
The management of the shop were happy to support the customer in providing evidence to the effect that he was in fact loading goods, as he told the clampers.
Once that had been established, the clampers should have realised their mistake and conceded.
In fact, without looking at the Parking Regulators code of conduct, I would imagine the clampers had not fulfilled the minimum observation time as laid out within it- which is there exactly for situations like these.
10 Pence Short said:
vonhosen said:
I guess they'll say that the terms & conditions of use for the parking space, is that it is for collection of goods only. They've watched you walk straight past the collection point at the back & go into the store at the front. You won't be able to produce evidence that you had previously purchased & had gone into the store to collect. In fact the times on your receipt will show that you entered the store to shop/purchase, purchasing the TV after parking.
Not really the point though, Von.Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 15:14
The customer parked there knowing, subject to the stock being available (assuming he hadn't already held the product online, that is), that he would be loading an item as part of his visit to the shop.
The management of the shop were happy to support the customer in providing evidence to the effect that he was in fact loading goods, as he told the clampers.
Once that had been established, the clampers should have realised their mistake and conceded.
In fact, without looking at the Parking Regulators code of conduct, I would imagine the clampers had not fulfilled the minimum observation time as laid out within it- which is there exactly for situations like these.
I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 15:26
vonhosen said:
I'd have thought the conditions of use are entirely the point.
I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
How did the guy not know he had phoned in advance to pick up said item and had to enter the front way to the store to let them know he had arrived for delivery - entirely plausable and happens all the time through internet orders.I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
The clamping would still have occured and the end result would have been the same regardless of if he paid for the item at that time or prior to arriving at car park - on exiting the store his car would be clamped and he'd have to pay the fine.
Gazado said:
vonhosen said:
I'd have thought the conditions of use are entirely the point.
I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
How did the guy not know he had phoned in advance to pick up said item and had to enter the front way to the store to let them know he had arrived for delivery - entirely plausable and happens all the time through internet orders.I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
The clamping would still have occured and the end result would have been the same regardless of if he paid for the item at that time or prior to arriving at car park - on exiting the store his car would be clamped and he'd have to pay the fine.
Under whose authority are they acting? it has to be the landlords which means that Argos must be perfectly aware of the effect it's having on their business, surely it is in their interests to put this right.
I cannot understand why, even our inept bunch of lying crooks, cannot put an end to this parasitic business
I cannot understand why, even our inept bunch of lying crooks, cannot put an end to this parasitic business
vonhosen said:
I'd have thought the conditions of use are entirely the point.
I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
I realise that. I was making the point that a customer can quite reasonably park in the collection bay before purchase, if their intention is to use that space legitimately and with the permission of the landowner or agent.I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 15:26
It is not for the clamping goons to pre-empt the situation by assuming the customer is cheating the system when wandering out of sight.
Once the customer, with the express written permission of the shop in question, made the situation clear to the goons, the clamp should have been removed and an apology forthcoming.
Dizeee said:
I would like to share with you a lovely story.
It typifies the state of the UK and the way things are today. There is no hope from my story, just gloom, and another victim to the unregulated UK clamping operators who have robbed me.
Nice sunny day, July 4th. Saturday. I attend my local Argos. At the rear of the store are a couple of parking spaces, Argos's spaces, clearly signed and labelled as "Argos Customer Collection Point" with the blue logo signs, 2 of them. The car park is small and also has other spaces dotted around for residents of flats there. Generally you need a permit to park there for long periods, but the two Argos spaces are clearly labelled as their customer collection points and sit right outside their back roller shutter *whereby goods are bought out).
So, park there for 10 minutes in which time I enter the store from the front entrance, order a flat screen TV and return to the rear to collect it. And my car has been clamped. Call up the number, along they come having been waiting around the corner and charge me £150 to remove the clamp. Don't care about why I was parked there, drive off and sit at the bottom of the road again to catch another innocent victim.
I obtain a letter from the manager of Argos stating I was there to collect goods and had parked there as instructed to by their signage, he types one out and gives it to me being very apologetic, but it's not "down to them". I type a short appeal letter along the lines of the above. Receive a letter back this morning stating no, I won't get my money back.
It doesn't matter what is said, or done, or how it is perceived, the simple fact of the matter is I was clamped UNLAWFULLY and have been charged monies for NOTHING. I know how and why they get away with it, but having now been a victim of it myself, I find myself pacing around the house tamping mad., I just cannot and will not accept this - who do they think they are? If I had taken the piss in some way or tried it on, fair enough, but, I have parked in a signposted, allocated bay for a store in which I have entered as a genuine paying customer, to come out ten minutes later to collect the goods and find myself impounded and owing money to company I have never heard of? Even Argos themselves backed me up, typing a headed letter proclaiming my right to park there.
I just don't know what to do. Their letter back seems to blaze and confident, teasing me to go to court if I wish, as they rigorously defend all their claims etc etc
The UK = f
ked.
The very least you should do is take the TV back for a refund. then tell Argos that you have done that and why. They should take responsibility for the service they are, or in this case, are not providing. It typifies the state of the UK and the way things are today. There is no hope from my story, just gloom, and another victim to the unregulated UK clamping operators who have robbed me.
Nice sunny day, July 4th. Saturday. I attend my local Argos. At the rear of the store are a couple of parking spaces, Argos's spaces, clearly signed and labelled as "Argos Customer Collection Point" with the blue logo signs, 2 of them. The car park is small and also has other spaces dotted around for residents of flats there. Generally you need a permit to park there for long periods, but the two Argos spaces are clearly labelled as their customer collection points and sit right outside their back roller shutter *whereby goods are bought out).
So, park there for 10 minutes in which time I enter the store from the front entrance, order a flat screen TV and return to the rear to collect it. And my car has been clamped. Call up the number, along they come having been waiting around the corner and charge me £150 to remove the clamp. Don't care about why I was parked there, drive off and sit at the bottom of the road again to catch another innocent victim.
I obtain a letter from the manager of Argos stating I was there to collect goods and had parked there as instructed to by their signage, he types one out and gives it to me being very apologetic, but it's not "down to them". I type a short appeal letter along the lines of the above. Receive a letter back this morning stating no, I won't get my money back.
It doesn't matter what is said, or done, or how it is perceived, the simple fact of the matter is I was clamped UNLAWFULLY and have been charged monies for NOTHING. I know how and why they get away with it, but having now been a victim of it myself, I find myself pacing around the house tamping mad., I just cannot and will not accept this - who do they think they are? If I had taken the piss in some way or tried it on, fair enough, but, I have parked in a signposted, allocated bay for a store in which I have entered as a genuine paying customer, to come out ten minutes later to collect the goods and find myself impounded and owing money to company I have never heard of? Even Argos themselves backed me up, typing a headed letter proclaiming my right to park there.
I just don't know what to do. Their letter back seems to blaze and confident, teasing me to go to court if I wish, as they rigorously defend all their claims etc etc
The UK = f
ked.I have to say I'm not that surprised. In my experience Argos isn't much of a company in terms of ethics and I wouldn't be surprised if they are not in on this scam.
Sorry if this has been posted elsehwere, but should gladden the heart of anyone who has ever been clamped:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/8...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/8...
10 Pence Short said:
vonhosen said:
I'd have thought the conditions of use are entirely the point.
I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
I realise that. I was making the point that a customer can quite reasonably park in the collection bay before purchase, if their intention is to use that space legitimately and with the permission of the landowner or agent.I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 15:26
It is not for the clamping goons to pre-empt the situation by assuming the customer is cheating the system when wandering out of sight.
Once the customer, with the express written permission of the shop in question, made the situation clear to the goons, the clamp should have been removed and an apology forthcoming.
Didn't the OP say something about permits ?
i.e. when you purchase you get a permit & when you park in those spaces you must display that permit.
Is that what the VI's terms of enforcement are (no permit = clamp) ?
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 16:06
Dizeee, was this a car park? I don't think one can have a parking spot defined as loading only for Argos customers on a road (as per RTA), so I presume so. As such, have you checked that the barstewards have valid SIA licences for vehicle immobilisation? If you have their name, check online. If not, and the approved company exemption doesn't apply, look to get criminal proceedings under way against them for working in a licensable role without one.
RacerMDR said:
and what is the fine for criminal damage? 50 quid?
£80 Penalty Notice for Disorder can be issued by BiB if damage less than £300. That £80 would go to the Courts. The downside would be that the clamping company could then take a civil claim against you for their loss.[quote=Dizeee]I have now also emailed the manager of the firm.
I am really struggling to deal with my anger over this. My anger has not dwelled all day, I just cannot understand how people get away with it. I knew it went on, but it now having happened to me, I just can't take it.
I dare type the idea's that are going through my head at the moment.[/quote
As the Americans say - don't get mad, get even. Small claims, decently prepared and you'll win, even if the tossers bother to turn up.
I am really struggling to deal with my anger over this. My anger has not dwelled all day, I just cannot understand how people get away with it. I knew it went on, but it now having happened to me, I just can't take it.
I dare type the idea's that are going through my head at the moment.[/quote
As the Americans say - don't get mad, get even. Small claims, decently prepared and you'll win, even if the tossers bother to turn up.
vonhosen said:
I guess they'll say that the terms & conditions of use for the parking space, is that it is for collection of goods only. They've watched you walk straight past the collection point at the back & go into the store at the front. You won't be able to produce evidence that you had previously purchased & had gone into the store to collect. In fact the times on your receipt will show that you entered the store to shop/purchase, purchasing the TV after parking.
They might say that, but are those conditions displayed. "...only park in this space if you have already purchased goods and have come to collect them..."If it is just labelled "for collection", it's an entirely plausible that that would include going in to buy an item and getting it in the car. Unless the terms are explicit, it cannot be up to the clampers to make up their own interpretation.
BTW Von, what do *you* think about the incident? Ok or not?
Bert
vonhosen said:
10 Pence Short said:
vonhosen said:
I'd have thought the conditions of use are entirely the point.
I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
I realise that. I was making the point that a customer can quite reasonably park in the collection bay before purchase, if their intention is to use that space legitimately and with the permission of the landowner or agent.I'm not having a go, just pointing out the angle that they may possibly approach it from. He did say in his original post that the spaces were marked specifically for collections.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 15:26
It is not for the clamping goons to pre-empt the situation by assuming the customer is cheating the system when wandering out of sight.
Once the customer, with the express written permission of the shop in question, made the situation clear to the goons, the clamp should have been removed and an apology forthcoming.
Didn't the OP say something about permits ?
i.e. when you purchase you get a permit & when you park in those spaces you must display that permit.
Is that what the VI's terms of enforcement are (no permit = clamp) ?
I guess lawyers could argue for ever over whether purchase of an item is an integral part of collection of said item.
eldar said:
Small claims, decently prepared and you'll win, even if the tossers bother to turn up.
As has been said many times on here, this is THE route forward. It is a faff, and you will take a while to get the money back, but you WILL win. All the best with it, and keep us posted.
Oli.
Do the Moneyclaim thing (as above)
also view www.pepipoo.com?
...on a sidenote of above.
When it comes to "Loading Bays", this covers ONLY the action of loading. i.e if you were to park in a loading bay, nip to the cash machine then go on to Argos you would recieve a 'justified' ticket. However, if you simply parked and loaded, then you would win on an appeal.
I studied this when I recieved a ticket for being parked in a Loading bay when I was collecting some weight lifting equipment (funnily enough from Argos!). I paid but only after investigating some months after paying the initial fine I did appeal - Even though the fine should have been invalid (due to proof I ascertained) they said it was too late. I never had time to persue it, but I knew I would win.
I will happily post the letter if its of any help.
Gallen.
also view www.pepipoo.com?
...on a sidenote of above.
When it comes to "Loading Bays", this covers ONLY the action of loading. i.e if you were to park in a loading bay, nip to the cash machine then go on to Argos you would recieve a 'justified' ticket. However, if you simply parked and loaded, then you would win on an appeal.
I studied this when I recieved a ticket for being parked in a Loading bay when I was collecting some weight lifting equipment (funnily enough from Argos!). I paid but only after investigating some months after paying the initial fine I did appeal - Even though the fine should have been invalid (due to proof I ascertained) they said it was too late. I never had time to persue it, but I knew I would win.
I will happily post the letter if its of any help.
Gallen.
Edited by Gallen on Friday 17th July 16:22
As much as I hate to agree with VH, (sorry von) but on this occasion I suspect his summary to be correct.
To use a loading pay a customer should first park somewhere else, enter shop and pay for goods. Then return to their car, drive to loading bay and wait for doors to be opened and then load goods. Parking there and going into the shop to pay is classed as shopping not loading. As soon as the clampers saw the OP walk away from his car they knew they could then clamp him.
Unfair?? Certainly.
Legal??? I would guess, Yes
To use a loading pay a customer should first park somewhere else, enter shop and pay for goods. Then return to their car, drive to loading bay and wait for doors to be opened and then load goods. Parking there and going into the shop to pay is classed as shopping not loading. As soon as the clampers saw the OP walk away from his car they knew they could then clamp him.
Unfair?? Certainly.
Legal??? I would guess, Yes
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