RE: Slow Down Luv
Discussion
chris_w said:
"Sticking to the speed limit makes the roads safer for everyone "
I think this one sentence sums up the idiocy of the speed kills brigade. It suggests that everything will be ok as long as you're travelling at 30mph. It just sends out the wrong message to the very people they need to educate the most. If they're going to concentrate on 30mph areas (and good on them for it) then really go to town stressing that 30 will often be unacceptable.
Fair enough but then you get a certain Mary person on the radio claiming that if we reduce all limts around town to 20 mph then deaths will be reduced by 60%.
Yes she really did say that!
Whilst I am on the subject of that radio interview I also objected to the selective use if information. Damian Green was suggesting raising the m-way limit to 80 mph.
Mary W as part of her counter argument said that Germany which has a number of derestricted autobahns was thinking of bringing in a limit. What she was very careful not to mention is that the limit germany are thinking of is 130 kph. And 130 kph is = 81.25 mph, but then to point that out would have been too objective wouldn't it luv!
The above post in no way forms any threat real or imaginary against any person or organisation be they real, fictional, living or deceased. Its merely an observation of an interview held live on the BBC and therefore in the public domain.
Flat in Fifth said:
Mary W as part of her counter argument said that Germany which has a number of derestricted autobahns was thinking of bringing in a limit. What she was very careful not to mention is that the limit germany are thinking of is 130 kph. And 130 kph is = 81.25 mph, but then to point that out would have been too objective wouldn't it luv!
Mary is as usual talking absolute bollox!! The speed limit RECOMMENDATION is 130kph and ALL motorways are unlimited apart from some which have TEMPORARY limits due to traffic congestion/roadworks....... no such discussions have taken place with any german government department and if they had the ADAC and all the motoring lobby would have blown it out of the water anyway. We DO NOT let idiotic greenies and slimeballs with their transparent socialist deceit keep us off our unlimited autobahns. FREE LIMITS FOR FREE PEOPLE!!!!
safespeed said:
I have read newspaper reports suggesting that at least 2/3rds of speed cameras are outside built up areas. Good data on camera locations is hard to come by.
Could you not ask the GPS companies to share their databases? Presumably they have the coordinates for most known fixed cameras and known mobile sites?
JMGS4 said:
Mary W as part of her counter argument said that Germany which has a number of derestricted autobahns was thinking of bringing in a limit. What she was very careful not to mention is that the limit germany are thinking of is 130 kph. And 130 kph is = 81.25 mph, but then to point that out would have been too objective wouldn't it luv!
Mary is as usual talking absolute bollox!! The speed limit RECOMMENDATION is 130kph and ALL motorways are unlimited apart from some which have TEMPORARY limits due to traffic congestion/roadworks....... no such discussions have taken place with any german government department and if they had the ADAC and all the motoring lobby would have blown it out of the water anyway. We DO NOT let idiotic greenies and slimeballs with their transparent socialist deceit keep us off our unlimited autobahns. FREE LIMITS FOR FREE PEOPLE!!!!
Jmgs4,
I agree the 130 is advisory. The point I was trying to make was a comment upon the cynicism of the use of a "limit" in another country being used as an excuse against someone proposing exactly the same limit in this country.
Whichever side of the debate one sits on this type of selective use of information really does not do the individual or their cause any good.
Just as a thought. I wonder if the particular organisation being discussed has similar internal debate from all sides of the spectrum as seems to occur in PH?
FiF
JMGS4 said:
Mary W as part of her counter argument said that Germany which has a number of derestricted autobahns was thinking of bringing in a limit. What she was very careful not to mention is that the limit germany are thinking of is 130 kph. And 130 kph is = 81.25 mph, but then to point that out would have been too objective wouldn't it luv!
Mary is as usual talking absolute bollox!! The speed limit RECOMMENDATION is 130kph and ALL motorways are unlimited apart from some which have TEMPORARY limits due to traffic congestion/roadworks....... no such discussions have taken place with any german government department and if they had the ADAC and all the motoring lobby would have blown it out of the water anyway. We DO NOT let idiotic greenies and slimeballs with their transparent socialist deceit keep us off our unlimited autobahns. FREE LIMITS FOR FREE PEOPLE!!!!
They have always recommended 130kph on the de-restricted A/Bahn. Nobody actually observes this as it is a "You should" as opposed to a "you must!"
, and the majority settle down to steady cruises at our 90-ish! But there has been no mention in German press over any planned 130kph limit, and as JMGS4 says - all Germans would be 
!! There would be riots! They do have some limited stretches with variable limits - network around Ruhr basin had one heck of a pile up back in the 80s - due to high volume and a numpty US driver! The stretch is limited at variable speeds and there is a concealed speed camera under a motorway bidge - photo of it on "Radarfaelle" site as it has been a notorious revenue raiser in the past - according to another member of Familie Wildkatze who lives over there!!
Said on other threads here - do not see anything wrong with regular "brush up your skills" courses, together with hard hitting (NO hedgehogs with incomprehensible singing!) campaign on Green Cross Code and Cycling Tests! Bring Driving Test in line with Germany's! I did that test - so of course it is HARDER!
Encourage more Pass Plus etc!
And bring back the Trafpols to catch the really dangerous dross on the roads! The backbone of road safety is being compromised through over-reliance on a camera - which is never placed where it should be!
"Aunty Mary" was on GMTV this morning, I believe, stating that she wants more cameras as "they save lives"! Given Lancs has more than most, plus speed courses, and still has increased KSIs, then Mary's comment seems illogical. If deaths remain static or increase, yet more people are fined, then they are not saving lives, nor can they be sited correctly.
And if you cannot see them, then how can they make you "speed aware?" and slow you down. Given the number caught - they clearly are not making us slow down! Paul safespeed is right - flashing signs warning you to slow down are better idea!
Wildcat said:
Encourage more Pass Plus etc!
Trying in this city - hoping to offset the entire cost through funding - last thing people who are struggling to make ends meet want to pay, is more cash for pass plus, after going through the driving test procedure..
Don's right - there are some good points in the release - but they've missed the point. As usual Road Safety will not be solved by one little thing, in this case Speed...
Looks like they really are bloody minded about this - lets hope the citizens resolve is the same. There really has to be some meeting of "minds" about this, because whle we're wasting time on Speed, we're missing
as Wildcat rightly points out - the real issues and some ideas that solve it.
On that note, out Transport department just got asked to make serious savings again (read: less money overall again this year) - and that will no doubt impact on services.......
hornet said:
I have read newspaper reports suggesting that at least 2/3rds of speed cameras are outside built up areas. Good data on camera locations is hard to come by.
Could you not ask the GPS companies to share their databases? Presumably they have the coordinates for most known fixed cameras and known mobile sites?
Yes. I tried that. They regard their camera information as commercially sensitive. I presume they are scared of folk forming the opinion that they might not have all the camera sites. I can't say I really understood it, but I got the same answer from all of them last summer.
Perhaps they also worry about my work helping spoil their gravy train?
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
JMGS4 said:
Mary is as usual talking absolute bollox!! The speed limit RECOMMENDATION is 130kph and ALL motorways are unlimited apart from some which have TEMPORARY limits due to traffic congestion/roadworks.......
Quite agree. No one sticks to the 130 kph recommendation anyway. Average speeds are higher than that.
However, I've been planning my next trip to the Fatherland, and I am concerned about Rheinland-Pfalz Lander. I've seen some discussion on www.autobahn-online.de about there being a 130 kmh maximum on the autobahns in that Lander.
Can anyone confirm / deny ?
JMGS4 said:
no such discussions have taken place with any german government department and if they had the ADAC and all the motoring lobby would have blown it out of the water anyway.
Please note how German motorists have better political support than poor UK motorists.
JMGS4 said:
We DO NOT let idiotic greenies and slimeballs with their transparent socialist deceit keep us off our unlimited autobahns. FREE LIMITS FOR FREE PEOPLE!!!!
You hit the nail on the head there. Funny how the Germans also hit the nail on the head with their better driving tests.
dcb said:
No one sticks to the 130 kph recommendation anyway. Average speeds are higher than that.
Funny how the Germans also hit the nail on the head with their better driving tests.
So Germany has higher speeds, recommendations not limits, and a more complex/strict driving test. How do their accident injury figures compare?
dcb said:
I've seen some discussion on www.autobahn-online.de about there being a 130 kmh maximum on the autobahns in that Lander. Can anyone confirm / deny ?
There are some limits in socialist/greenie run Länder but these are all clearly marked witht he circular red-bordered limit signs, you can't miss them!
Andrew54, the german Autobahn accident figures are only a couple of marks AFTER the decimal point higher than the UK, it's the city accidents which hike up the high german stats..... mostly because of the self righteous german "I have the right of way/priority" mentality.... "so I don't brake, they must"..... BANG! a lot of gravestones in Germany with "I HAD the priority"......
JMGS4 said:
I've seen some discussion on <a href="http://www.autobahn-online.de">www.autobahn-online.de</a> about there being a 130 kmh maximum on the autobahns in that Lander. Can anyone confirm / deny ?
There are some limits in socialist/greenie run Länder but these are all clearly marked witht he circular red-bordered limit signs, you can't miss them!
Andrew54, the german Autobahn accident figures are only a couple of marks AFTER the decimal point higher than the UK, it's the city accidents which hike up the high german stats..... mostly because of the self righteous german "I have the right of way/priority" mentality.... "so I don't brake, they must"..... BANG! a lot of gravestones in Germany with "I HAD the priority"......
Agree! Same problems in France as well for similar reason.
dcb - Pfalz is one of regions with 130kph limits. A61 Mayen-Koblenz (Boppard). Scam is under a bridge around there! Been a mega- revenue raiser as well!
Recommend www.radarfalle.de/radarfallen.
You can search for road type and area you want. They even provide a little map with the location! (Nice photo gallery as well!) Also give listings of any planned radar/talivan activity, plus advice re detectors etc.
QUOTE: Remember that speed limits are a maximum, not a recommendation. In some conditions the safe speed will be less than the limit - amend your speed accordingly.
This implies that at the driver is able to determine the speed at which they can travel safely. As frequently mentioned, driving AT the speed limit in certain circumstances would be extremely foolhardy in built up areas. Why is that the same expectations are not extended in the other direction? i.e. safely driving at 85 on an empty motorway.
This implies that at the driver is able to determine the speed at which they can travel safely. As frequently mentioned, driving AT the speed limit in certain circumstances would be extremely foolhardy in built up areas. Why is that the same expectations are not extended in the other direction? i.e. safely driving at 85 on an empty motorway.
24 per cent have felt angered by their "significant other's" (don't you just hate that term!) speeding, which they think is 'irresponsible and stupid';
20 per cent are scared, and concerned that they and the driver could be killed or injured;
14 per cent worried about the safety of other road users.
25 per cent admit to pressing on an imaginary foot brake; and
only one per cent wanted their partners to drive faster.
Does this mean that:
76% were not angered by the speed they were being driven at.
80% were not scared or concerned about being killed or injured.
86% did not worry about the safety of other road users
75% did not press an imaginary brake pedal
99% were happy that they were not being driven to slowly (which can be as much of a hazard as speeding, depending on the conditions)
So the survey shows that the majority of passengers do not believe that speed is a major factor for concern!
Look what a little bit of spin can do.
It does amaze me that those in positions of authority think that the public is that stupid.
Personally I can't wait until we start getting candidates round for elections, for the first time ever I'm going to invite them in, give them a cup of coffee and see just what they know about transport. So candidiates in the North Swindon area, pop in, have a cup of tea and justify your existance; I look forward to it.
>> Edited by scaff on Friday 13th February 13:54
20 per cent are scared, and concerned that they and the driver could be killed or injured;
14 per cent worried about the safety of other road users.
25 per cent admit to pressing on an imaginary foot brake; and
only one per cent wanted their partners to drive faster.
Does this mean that:
76% were not angered by the speed they were being driven at.
80% were not scared or concerned about being killed or injured.
86% did not worry about the safety of other road users
75% did not press an imaginary brake pedal
99% were happy that they were not being driven to slowly (which can be as much of a hazard as speeding, depending on the conditions)
So the survey shows that the majority of passengers do not believe that speed is a major factor for concern!
Look what a little bit of spin can do.
It does amaze me that those in positions of authority think that the public is that stupid.
Personally I can't wait until we start getting candidates round for elections, for the first time ever I'm going to invite them in, give them a cup of coffee and see just what they know about transport. So candidiates in the North Swindon area, pop in, have a cup of tea and justify your existance; I look forward to it.
>> Edited by scaff on Friday 13th February 13:54
WildCat said:
dcb - Pfalz is one of regions with 130kph limits. A61 Mayen-Koblenz (Boppard).
The A61 on the west bank of the Rhein I am familiar with. I used that last year - never again.
My journey is Munich to Spa, Belgium. My computer recommends
1. Munich
2. Karlsruhe
3. Ludwigshafen
4. A6 west to Landstuhl
5. A62 north west
6. A1 north to Wittlich
7. new A60 north west into Belgium.
I don't know the road, and don't want to drive 130 kph limited roads.
My usual route would be
1. Munich
2. Wurzburg
3. Frankfurt
4. Koln
5. Aachen
but I fancied a change.
scaff said:
Personally I can't wait until we start getting candidates round for elections, for the first time ever I'm going to invite them in, give them a cup of coffee and see just what they know about transport. So candidiates in the North Swindon area, pop in, have a cup of tea and justify your existance; I look forward to it.
ditto that one mate,i cant wait for the rose-tinted,bullshat spouting labia faggots start crawling out from under the rock they have been hiding.....im gonna have some fun!!....i think a nice choccy cake is in order....with my own secret ingredient!!
....well it will certainly mellow them out and they may see things from a normal point of view rather than a hyped up on their own self worth toadying gits one....then they can 'white out' to their hearts content at the next bods gaff!! not that i would,obviously
dcb said:
dcb - Pfalz is one of regions with 130kph limits. A61 Mayen-Koblenz (Boppard).
The A61 on the west bank of the Rhein I am familiar with. I used that last year - never again.
My journey is Munich to Spa, Belgium. My computer recommends
1. Munich
2. Karlsruhe
3. Ludwigshafen
4. A6 west to Landstuhl
5. A62 north west
6. A1 north to Wittlich
7. new A60 north west into Belgium.
I don't know the road, and don't want to drive 130 kph limited roads.
My usual route would be
1. Munich
2. Wurzburg
3. Frankfurt
4. Koln
5. Aachen
but I fancied a change.
dcb
A9 Munich Bavaria - Variable limits - details of any speed traps available on web and local radio gives out details of all planned Blitzers! Cunning Blitzer sited behind speed limit sign - Kreuz Munchen Nord (so I am told!)
Most Pfalz A/bahn now have limited stretches of 130kph-A6 - Mannheim -Viernheimer Dreieck - known trap there.
Think rest of your route is probably OK - speedy wise! Check out www.radarfalle. The site also gives details of all "German safety cam" sites which post weekly schedules of planned mobile scamming activities, besides listing most of the fixed/red lights, etc. Also gives info re radio broadcasts giving same info!
Viel Spass, mein lieber Kerl!
Hals ueber Kopf!
I'm with Don. Although the general spin (and a couple of minor sentences) are contrary to my general point of view, as a whole it makes good sense to me.
Oh! And near me the only cameras I've found are on the A1 (3 lanes each way, central reservation, no houses) and the North Circular (3 lanes each way, central reservation, houses) or the North Circular (2 lanes each way, houses). The limits on these are 70, 50 or 40 and 40. Why are there no cameras near any of the three schools within half a mile of my flat?
>> Edited by V8 Archie on Saturday 14th February 03:19
Oh! And near me the only cameras I've found are on the A1 (3 lanes each way, central reservation, no houses) and the North Circular (3 lanes each way, central reservation, houses) or the North Circular (2 lanes each way, houses). The limits on these are 70, 50 or 40 and 40. Why are there no cameras near any of the three schools within half a mile of my flat?
>> Edited by V8 Archie on Saturday 14th February 03:19
DfT said:
"...an average car travelling at 35 mph will need an extra 21 feet (or six metres) more to stop, than one travelling at 30 mph."
A few months ago I was at the launch of Volkswagen's new Transporter van. We got the chance to drive them on a test track and the people there wanted to impress us with it's ABS. He got me to drive it at 40 (yes 40) MPH towards a box marked out with cones that included a dog-leg bend and told me not to brake until he said so. The first time, I bottled-out and stood on the brake pedal much too early. The second time I managed to force myself to hang on and stopped within the box. I was truly amazed. It took about 4 van lengths to come to camplete stop and the van is about 15 feet long.
So where the hell do they get their "extra 21 feet at 35" from if a bloody VAN (FFS) can come to a complete stop from 40mph in about 60 feet whilst swerving??????
OK, it was unladen but even so it was probably heavier than the average hatchback AND had a much higher centre of gravity!
"...an average car travelling at 35 mph will need an extra 21 feet (or six metres) more to stop, than one travelling at 30 mph."
A few months ago I was at the launch of Volkswagen's new Transporter van. We got the chance to drive them on a test track and the people there wanted to impress us with it's ABS. He got me to drive it at 40 (yes 40) MPH towards a box marked out with cones that included a dog-leg bend and told me not to brake until he said so. The first time, I bottled-out and stood on the brake pedal much too early. The second time I managed to force myself to hang on and stopped within the box. I was truly amazed. It took about 4 van lengths to come to camplete stop and the van is about 15 feet long.
So where the hell do they get their "extra 21 feet at 35" from if a bloody VAN (FFS) can come to a complete stop from 40mph in about 60 feet whilst swerving??????
OK, it was unladen but even so it was probably heavier than the average hatchback AND had a much higher centre of gravity!
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