80mph Motorway Limit - Carnage?
Discussion
hornet said:The department is certainly real and probably very small and crap. I'll find out this guys email address at uni tomorrow and ask him to explain his comments. If I get a response I'll post it here. He sounds like a feckin eejit to me though. Its the same department that kept sending emails about speed limiter trials. twats.
There are other advantages to taking things easier. "Say you have a minor incident that takes half an hour to clear and causes a build up of traffic," says Paul Firmin, of the Institute for Transport Studies at Leeds University. "If you're slower to arrive at the scene then maybe you turn up after everything's been cleared away."
Alternatively you might be involved in a pile up that would otherwise have happened behind you. Fecking idiot. Anyway, if you arrive at the scene when everything has been cleared away, how exactly would you know there'd been a scene in the first place?
Do these people actually get paid to spout this drivel? Can anyone confirm that the "Transport Studies" dept at Leeds Uni is just another David Begg one man band farce?
I don't suppose he's the only weasel to "concede" to a higher limit, while really using it as a "crack in the door" to adding some strings.
I hope no one falls for this - it looks like PHers see straight through it, but you can guarantee that the angle used (i.e. consessions but with strings attached) will be attempted in future.
I hope no one falls for this - it looks like PHers see straight through it, but you can guarantee that the angle used (i.e. consessions but with strings attached) will be attempted in future.
Don said:
Complete a**e.
Our motorway limit should be raised to at least 100mph.
Edited to add the at least. Its possible we could have a limit of 120 or so, I reckon. Unfortunately you can't do it all at once or the numpties really would kill themselves somehow believing its still OK to cruise in the outside lane at 50mph....
>> Edited by Don on Tuesday 17th February 22:03
I for one would not like to see a 120 mph limit on motorways. But only cos my current car can't go that fast
As soon as I get a car that can, I'll probably change my mind
Even if the limit was 120, I wouldn't drive that quickly all the time - even if conditions were suitable.
I drive a farily quick car, but I pay for the fuel. Past 100 and you can watch the fuel gauge move. Also, there is a significant increase in maintainance bills.
Am I abnormal in maintaining my car and not treating speed limits as targets?
Education, Education, Education... It worked for the govenment over schools. Dare they try the same thing with roads? No - it would cost money rather than make money. How stupid of me...
I drive a farily quick car, but I pay for the fuel. Past 100 and you can watch the fuel gauge move. Also, there is a significant increase in maintainance bills.
Am I abnormal in maintaining my car and not treating speed limits as targets?
Education, Education, Education... It worked for the govenment over schools. Dare they try the same thing with roads? No - it would cost money rather than make money. How stupid of me...
mattjbatch said:
cazzo said:
There are other advantages to taking things easier. "Say you have a minor incident that takes half an hour to clear and causes a build up of traffic," says Paul Firmin, of the Institute for Transport Studies at Leeds University. "If you're slower to arrive at the scene then maybe you turn up after everything's been cleared away."
Alternatively you might be involved in a pile up that would otherwise have happened behind you. Fecking idiot. Anyway, if you arrive at the scene when everything has been cleared away, how exactly would you know there'd been a scene in the first place?
Do these people actually get paid to spout this drivel? Can anyone confirm that the "Transport Studies" dept at Leeds Uni is just another David Begg one man band farce?
The department is certainly real and probably very small and crap. I'll find out this guys email address at uni tomorrow and ask him to explain his comments. If I get a response I'll post it here. He sounds like a feckin eejit to me though. Its the same department that kept sending emails about speed limiter trials. twats.
Twazak!
Muesli munching - no idea of traffic flow - no idea of physics - loony henclucking cyclist!
Badly in need of MOT on his brain!
Leeds eh? Just over t' pennines! Must pay visit - take him with me across to Germany, and show him what a very wild cat in a very hot tin can do!
He'd soon find that purrly good unlimited (and even limited to 81+mph) motorways are perfectly safe!
dnb said:
I drive a farily quick car, but I pay for the fuel. Past 100 and you can watch the fuel gauge move.
Your car is different to any of the cars I've driven past 100 mph.
It's not how fast you drive, it's your acceleration to get there.
Floor it and you will see less mpg. Gradual acceleration even to highish top speed - no significant change in mpg.
Simple Newtonian 400 year old physics. f=ma and all that.
For the record, on the German autobahn at 120-130 mph, I got the same mpg as at 90 mph on the M25 i.e. 38-40 mpg for that car.
dcb said:
dnb said:
I drive a farily quick car, but I pay for the fuel. Past 100 and you can watch the fuel gauge move.
Your car is different to any of the cars I've driven past 100 mph.
It's not how fast you drive, it's your acceleration to get there.
Floor it and you will see less mpg. Gradual acceleration even to highish top speed - no significant change in mpg.
Simple Newtonian 400 year old physics. f=ma and all that.
For the record, on the German autobahn at 120-130 mph, I got the same mpg as at 90 mph on the M25 i.e. 38-40 mpg for that car.
Mostly correct
but don't forget that the air drag force is proportional to the square of speed. Thus travelling at 100 uses 4 times the energy of travelling at 50. By the time you've gone from 100 to 120, the curve is quite steep (you've probably nearly doubled the energy input requirements again...). I notice that the MPG is almost the same between 60 and 80 and it tails off progressively faster as you sustain faster speeds. Maybe it was a slight exageration to say "you can watch the needle move" since it moves at any speed...
Drag equation:
Drag = Cd * air_density * (velocity^2)/2 * frontal area
>> Edited by dnb on Wednesday 18th February 12:13
dnb said:
dnb said:
I drive a farily quick car, but I pay for the fuel. Past 100 and you can watch the fuel gauge move.
Your car is different to any of the cars I've driven past 100 mph.
It's not how fast you drive, it's your acceleration to get there.
Floor it and you will see less mpg. Gradual acceleration even to highish top speed - no significant change in mpg.
Simple Newtonian 400 year old physics. f=ma and all that.
For the record, on the German autobahn at 120-130 mph, I got the same mpg as at 90 mph on the M25 i.e. 38-40 mpg for that car.
Mostly correct
By the time you've gone from 100 to 120, the curve is quite steep (you've probably nearly doubled the energy input requirements again...). I notice that the MPG is almost the same between 60 and 80 and it tails off progressively faster as you sustain faster speeds. Maybe it was a slight exageration to say "you can watch the needle move" since it moves at any speed...
Drag equation:
Drag = Cd * air_density * (velocity^2)/2 * frontal area
>> Edited by dnb on Wednesday 18th February 12:13
If we're taking it to that leve, better mention that the rate of decelleration is also higher at higher speeds. Slowing from 110 to 70 is quicker than from 40 to 0.......
hornet said:
There are other advantages to taking things easier. "Say you have a minor incident that takes half an hour to clear and causes a build up of traffic," says Paul Firmin, of the Institute for Transport Studies at Leeds University. "If you're slower to arrive at the scene then maybe you turn up after everything's been cleared away."
Alternatively you might be involved in a pile up that would otherwise have happened behind you. Fecking idiot. Anyway, if you arrive at the scene when everything has been cleared away, how exactly would you know there'd been a scene in the first place?
Do these people actually get paid to spout this drivel? Can anyone confirm that the "Transport Studies" dept at Leeds Uni is just another David Begg one man band farce?
I can confirm that the Transport Studies dept at Leeds does exist and is in fact fairly well reputed. I don't study with the deptartment but have been briefly involved with them. What baffles me is who the hell this Paul Firmin is 'cos he sure as hell isn't one of their departmental lecturers!
Bacchus - we may as well get all the physics right and out in the open, otherwise it will be abused by those who don't know any better.
(i.e. the politicians etc who have not done engineering or science degrees, but still try to tell us how the world works
)
For the record, here's some simple calculation results for my car. Note the arbitrary units - closely related to Newtons - as I didn't have time to research air density values!
50 mph - drag force is 244 units.
100 mph - drag force is 980 units.
120 mph - drag force is 1412 units.
>> Edited by dnb on Wednesday 18th February 12:36
(i.e. the politicians etc who have not done engineering or science degrees, but still try to tell us how the world works
) For the record, here's some simple calculation results for my car. Note the arbitrary units - closely related to Newtons - as I didn't have time to research air density values!
50 mph - drag force is 244 units.
100 mph - drag force is 980 units.
120 mph - drag force is 1412 units.
>> Edited by dnb on Wednesday 18th February 12:36
Why do you think most Germans cars are Tdi's??? They do 40+ mpg at 120mph all day long
My old Saab 9000 2.3T did about 13mpg at those sorts of speeds, where as the Tdi's I've had as hire cars will easily pull 130+mph & manage no less than 35mpg flat out.
Best one last month was a sticker on the dash of this Merc Cdi Achtung: "Max speed 190kph as snow tyres are fitted to this vehicle" That's 120mph in English
On the original subject: The Germans are taught to drive properly in the first place, brits are NOT so an increase in speeds would/could cause mayhem. Far far too many peeps drive that total twats (the lemming effect) at the current speeds.
Increase the limit but only for the those trained to do so.
My old Saab 9000 2.3T did about 13mpg at those sorts of speeds, where as the Tdi's I've had as hire cars will easily pull 130+mph & manage no less than 35mpg flat out.
Best one last month was a sticker on the dash of this Merc Cdi Achtung: "Max speed 190kph as snow tyres are fitted to this vehicle" That's 120mph in English
On the original subject: The Germans are taught to drive properly in the first place, brits are NOT so an increase in speeds would/could cause mayhem. Far far too many peeps drive that total twats (the lemming effect) at the current speeds.
Increase the limit but only for the those trained to do so.
JWH said:
cazzo said:
There are other advantages to taking things easier. "Say you have a minor incident that takes half an hour to clear and causes a build up of traffic," says Paul Firmin, of the Institute for Transport Studies at Leeds University. "If you're slower to arrive at the scene then maybe you turn up after everything's been cleared away."
Alternatively you might be involved in a pile up that would otherwise have happened behind you. Fecking idiot. Anyway, if you arrive at the scene when everything has been cleared away, how exactly would you know there'd been a scene in the first place?
Do these people actually get paid to spout this drivel? Can anyone confirm that the "Transport Studies" dept at Leeds Uni is just another David Begg one man band farce?
I can confirm that the Transport Studies dept at Leeds does exist and is in fact fairly well reputed. I don't study with the deptartment but have been briefly involved with them. What baffles me is who the hell this Paul Firmin is 'cos he sure as hell isn't one of their departmental lecturers!
I hope he isn't, this guy sounds like a 12 year old
northernboy said:
This ejit is beyond belief. I can't stand this sodding country any more.
Anyone know what the construction industry is like in Monaco?.... hmmm, no good, roads are too slow.
Germany?... no, can't speak the language.
Italy?.... no, some bog standard panda would show me up by travelling 200mph up the side of the alps!
Ameri.... god no, 55mph limits!
Looks like I'll have to stay in blighty then... on the other hand I have a couple of razor blades...
>> Edited by groomi on Tuesday 17th February 22:35
America seems, to me, to a lot worse than Britain. So many laws about what you can and can't do. I imagine this is what russia felt like before glasnost.
"Don't stand there", "Walk now" "don't walk now" "You can't buy that beer, you're only 32", "we won't serve you a drink, you're pregnant".
No smoking, no running, no cameras, no drinking outdoors, and no comeback when the police slaughter entirely innocent people.
As long as the victim was balck.
It is a petty rule bound place, suspicious of everyone else, and a long way up their own arse, blind to the fact.
Not to mention the place is full of Yanks.
rodney59 said:
In any case the net result of a crash at 70mph is going to much the same at 80. (And I heard that from a Traf plod here in Kent).
Kenetic Energy = Mass * velocity * velocity
k=mV^2
When V gets big, V^2 gets very very big very fast.
Net result is you're just as dead. But the ambulance crew need a tea strainer to find bits to bury.
mungo said:
Complete a**e.
Our motorway limit should be raised to at least 100mph.
Edited to add the at least. Its possible we could have a limit of 120 or so, I reckon. Unfortunately you can't do it all at once or the numpties really would kill themselves somehow believing its still OK to cruise in the outside lane at 50mph....
>> Edited by Don on Tuesday 17th February 22:03
Absolutely
:coming from someone who used to do 600 - 1,000 motorway miles a week:
I Thort it was 120
Mr E said:
[quote=rodney59]
Kenetic Energy = Mass * velocity * velocity
k=mV^2
When V gets big, V^2 gets very very big very fast.
Net result is you're just as dead. But the ambulance crew need a tea strainer to find bits to bury.
Can't argue with your command of GCSE physics, except for spelling kinetic wrong, but from what you say, the fastest roads are the most dangerous.
Which plainly isn't the case.
The fastest roads are in practice the safest - which is precisely why we need more of them if we are to reduce the number of folks killed each year.
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