Screwed by finance company and dodgy dealer....
Discussion
Well at the end of the day "it is what it is" but thought I'd share this here in the vain hope it can stop the situation happening to someone else.
A CLEAR example of the fact there is a difference between the law and justice.
2 years ago I bought a new car on finance and traded my old car which also had some finance remaining on it. Went to a reputable dealer, what the hell I can name them. [mod note] Actually, we'd rather you didn't [/mod note]. Who had been there for 20+years. I had bought a car from them previously and so had a relative of mine no problems.
Long story short, did the deal took a cheque from them made out to the finance company to settle the finance on the PX vehicle and guess what? It bounced, and the company went into administration. The finance company told me they would sort this out. But they did nothing, the car "disappeared" and was later found to be sold to someone else, innocently they claim. The bank did vehicle checks and knew where the car was the whole time and didn;t tell me or try to retrieve it.
Was in court today and the judge who was very helpful chap took total sympathy for the situation even telling the banks they should not charge interest or costs, but I was still liable for 14k on the previous car. So no car at all and still have to pay for it. I still think they were negligent by making no effort at any stage to reclaim the car but hey, unless you know 100% the finance is settled and the banks say it is settled NEVER part with a car in PX.....
Name and Shame references removed.
A CLEAR example of the fact there is a difference between the law and justice.
2 years ago I bought a new car on finance and traded my old car which also had some finance remaining on it. Went to a reputable dealer, what the hell I can name them. [mod note] Actually, we'd rather you didn't [/mod note]. Who had been there for 20+years. I had bought a car from them previously and so had a relative of mine no problems.
Long story short, did the deal took a cheque from them made out to the finance company to settle the finance on the PX vehicle and guess what? It bounced, and the company went into administration. The finance company told me they would sort this out. But they did nothing, the car "disappeared" and was later found to be sold to someone else, innocently they claim. The bank did vehicle checks and knew where the car was the whole time and didn;t tell me or try to retrieve it.
Was in court today and the judge who was very helpful chap took total sympathy for the situation even telling the banks they should not charge interest or costs, but I was still liable for 14k on the previous car. So no car at all and still have to pay for it. I still think they were negligent by making no effort at any stage to reclaim the car but hey, unless you know 100% the finance is settled and the banks say it is settled NEVER part with a car in PX.....
Name and Shame references removed.
cheadle hulme said:
Was the £14k owing to (the Bank) the amount owing when you px'd it? Or have they added interest?
No the amount owing was 12k. They had added interest on the missed payments plus costs in terms of sending letters etc etc. The district judge stopped any further interest and charges, their claim was for 14k, then they asked for interest and additional charges, could have been much worse I know. They were looking for 4k in charges.Sure if the PX has not been paid for (the cheque bounced), the car is still legally yours?
Title wouldn't pass until payment was made. And payment wasn't.
I gather it's too late to report it as stolen? Effectively, that's what's happened. The car has been taken without payment, it's basically stolen.
Feel for you buddy, that's seriously hard luck.
Title wouldn't pass until payment was made. And payment wasn't.
I gather it's too late to report it as stolen? Effectively, that's what's happened. The car has been taken without payment, it's basically stolen.
Feel for you buddy, that's seriously hard luck.
maser_spyder said:
Sure if the PX has not been paid for (the cheque bounced), the car is still legally yours?
Title wouldn't pass until payment was made. And payment wasn't.
I gather it's too late to report it as stolen? Effectively, that's what's happened. The car has been taken without payment, it's basically stolen.
Feel for you buddy, that's seriously hard luck.
If the traded-in vehicle was on HP then it wasn't actually his car. Title wouldn't pass until payment was made. And payment wasn't.
I gather it's too late to report it as stolen? Effectively, that's what's happened. The car has been taken without payment, it's basically stolen.
Feel for you buddy, that's seriously hard luck.
Andy_GSA said:
maser_spyder said:
Sure if the PX has not been paid for (the cheque bounced), the car is still legally yours?
Title wouldn't pass until payment was made. And payment wasn't.
I gather it's too late to report it as stolen? Effectively, that's what's happened. The car has been taken without payment, it's basically stolen.
Feel for you buddy, that's seriously hard luck.
If the traded-in vehicle was on HP then it wasn't actually his car. Title wouldn't pass until payment was made. And payment wasn't.
I gather it's too late to report it as stolen? Effectively, that's what's happened. The car has been taken without payment, it's basically stolen.
Feel for you buddy, that's seriously hard luck.
Surely some action can be taken with somebody though? Doesn't seem fair that the OP has to fork out having done nothing wrong.
maser_spyder said:
Ah, bugger, true. Friday night and didn't think of that.
Surely some action can be taken with somebody though? Doesn't seem fair that the OP has to fork out having done nothing wrong.
Unfortunately that's the way it is. If the vehicle had been re-sold to a new purchaser who didn't know about the finance agreement then there's nothing the finance company can do to recover it, and it's very difficult to prove knowledge of a finance arrangement. The simplest way for the lender is to pursue the original borrower, who is basically stuck with the debt (as he found out). The OP's only realistic remedy is against the dealer he traded the car with, and if they've gone to the wall he'll just be another unsecured creditor. Surely some action can be taken with somebody though? Doesn't seem fair that the OP has to fork out having done nothing wrong.
I am surprised the dealer didn't settle the finance directly, it seems odd to just give a cheque for the PX value for the customer to settle the agreement. I presume the OP isn't talking about a personal loan of some kind rather than an HP agreement?
Edited by Andy_GSA on Saturday 12th June 01:51
Andy_GSA said:
I am surprised the dealer didn't settle the finance directly, it seems odd to just give a cheque for the PX value for the customer to settle the agreement.
Not if you know it's going to bounce in a couple of days.I bet the car was already sold, money in the kitty (or pocket) before anybody is any the wiser.
Would be very interesting to know the immediate history of the car, given that it's not been paid for (bounced cheque), it's technically still the property of the OP?
TVR Moneypit said:
H_Kan said:
No idea how much it would cost, but could you not consider personal action against the directors of the garage. It would appear that they continued to trade whilst insolvent.
Not sure on the specifics of this, I'm sure somebody can elaborate.
That's what I was thinking.Not sure on the specifics of this, I'm sure somebody can elaborate.
Got to be worth looking into surely?
The car remained the property of Bank Of Scotland untill the finance is paid off. The problem being they made no effort to recover it. When it was established this was all going pear shaped I reported it to the police. This being 4 months after the exchange. They said the number plate had been changed by then and was owned by someone else. They stated BOS would have to report the car stolen under the circumstances. I understand this happened with several vehicles they had, so I'm not alone, they knew they were going out of business and obviously wanted some extra reddies.
My point to all this was to make sure other people don;t let this happen to them. Make 100% sure the finance company HAVE been paid before accepting any exchange, this can be very difficult for sure because we tend to trust established dealers and don;t think they would do this sort of thing.
My point to all this was to make sure other people don;t let this happen to them. Make 100% sure the finance company HAVE been paid before accepting any exchange, this can be very difficult for sure because we tend to trust established dealers and don;t think they would do this sort of thing.
The title of the thread is perhaps a bit misleading. Whilst some of those involved have not exactly acted in your best interests, it was naive to rely on the cheque to clear and let the deal complete before the finance was paid off. That's probably why the Court find you still owe the money.
10 Pence Short said:
The title of the thread is perhaps a bit misleading. Whilst some of those involved have not exactly acted in your best interests, it was naive to rely on the cheque to clear and let the deal complete before the finance was paid off. That's probably why the Court find you still owe the money.
Cheque from a private buyer without a doubt would be naive.Not so from a large garage. I am an auditor and assess numerous financial systems, releasing goods or services on the basis of a cheque from an existing client is pretty common place. Hell, most sales are done on credit terms anyway.
OP as I said, you need to chase the directors personally.
Additionally did the new buyers of your car do any due diligence themselves? Surely a simple HPI check would have flagged the finance. If they did not then again can you not try and recover the vehicle, I agree it's not nice for the people who have bought it but ultimately somebody is going to have to take the loss.
H_Kan said:
10 Pence Short said:
The title of the thread is perhaps a bit misleading. Whilst some of those involved have not exactly acted in your best interests, it was naive to rely on the cheque to clear and let the deal complete before the finance was paid off. That's probably why the Court find you still owe the money.
Cheque from a private buyer without a doubt would be naive.Not so from a large garage. I am an auditor and assess numerous financial systems, releasing goods or services on the basis of a cheque from an existing client is pretty common place. Hell, most sales are done on credit terms anyway.
OP as I said, you need to chase the directors personally.
Additionally did the new buyers of your car do any due diligence themselves? Surely a simple HPI check would have flagged the finance. If they did not then again can you not try and recover the vehicle, I agree it's not nice for the people who have bought it but ultimately somebody is going to have to take the loss.
In any case, dealing with a car dealership as a private punter and relying on them to be entirely honerable is regrettably naive in my opinion.
10 Pence Short said:
In any case, dealing with a car dealership as a private punter and relying on them to be entirely honerable is regrettably naive in my opinion.
Hard to tell since the PH management have elected that it is wrong to name a company which no longer exists, but I get the impression that this was a large and well established dealership, not some back street operation.Good call for the OP to post this up as a reminder that in the current climate, even long established businesses are toppling. A few years ago, who would have thought that Woolworths would tumble - and how many other high street names.
Mill Wheel said:
10 Pence Short said:
In any case, dealing with a car dealership as a private punter and relying on them to be entirely honerable is regrettably naive in my opinion.
Hard to tell since the PH management have elected that it is wrong to name a company which no longer exists, but I get the impression that this was a large and well established dealership, not some back street operation.Good call for the OP to post this up as a reminder that in the current climate, even long established businesses are toppling. A few years ago, who would have thought that Woolworths would tumble - and how many other high street names.
Actually, my old man did his apprenticeship at this garage, and he used to ride to school on dinosaurs. The chap who owned it for many years sold up only a couple of years before it all went belly up.
Funny thing is, my father heard some stories of stuff that was going on there in the 60s that was a bit beyond the pale....
Put it another way. You have £14k tied up in finance. Do you a) release the asset to a third party, allowing them to sell it before you have cleared the £14k or b) Wait until you have the funds in your account and the finance cleared before releasing the asset.
It's more about common sense than anything else.
It's more about common sense than anything else.
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