If scameras dissappeared....
Discussion
lunarscope said:
rospa said:
IF cameras are to be removed, then it has to be managed properly. The first thing we need to do is to build up Police Traffic Sections again.
Why ?
After all, only 3 or 4% of injury accidents have speed in excess of the limit as the primary cause.
Because as speed cameras have multiplied, the number of traffic police have reduced.
I certainly do not want to see TrafPol taking over the role of cameras (i.e. prosecuting for speed limit + 2MPH) but I do want to see them targetting those drivers that do cause KSI collisions i.e. drunk/drugged/careless drivers...
Without getting TrafPol back on the roads, it would just become a free for all.
(Apologies if I gave the impression that I wanted TrafPol to concentrate on speeders. That is not what I want to see happen).
Edited to change now to not
>> Edited by rospa on Monday 5th April 16:19
Can we make that... "When cameras disappear"?
Because they can not, must not and will not survive.
The key question now is:
"If vehicle activated warning signs are three times more effective at slowing vehicles in areas of danger, why do we need a single speed camera?"
It's discussed on:
www.safespeed.org.uk/cameras.html
There's also a linked Safe Speed forum poll on the subject (bottom of page). Feel free to add your vote.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
>> Edited by safespeed on Monday 5th April 23:48
Because they can not, must not and will not survive.
The key question now is:
"If vehicle activated warning signs are three times more effective at slowing vehicles in areas of danger, why do we need a single speed camera?"
It's discussed on:
www.safespeed.org.uk/cameras.html
There's also a linked Safe Speed forum poll on the subject (bottom of page). Feel free to add your vote.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
>> Edited by safespeed on Monday 5th April 23:48
rospa said:
IF cameras are to be removed, then it has to be managed properly. The first thing we need to do is to build up Police Traffic Sections again.
We certainly do need to build up the traffic police again. But there are no safety benefits from cameras and we DO NOT need to build up traffic police strength first.
The cameras most certainly do not cause an improvement in driver behaviour that would be lost if the cameras were removed.
Why are you called "rospa" btw? Are you connected with the organisation?
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
I think what Rospa is driving at is that the traffic police can manage the inner city troublesome drivers. They can target yoofs in maxed up cars and keep giving them a tug which will just focus them enough to not be a danger to other road users. I got pulled more than 200 times without prosecution in my teens for simply being in the wrong kind of car (grey Primer). Invariably this was at night and was a fair attempt by the traffic police most of whom were OK (there was one little shit though 
) to just control the fury of youth. I agree with Paul though, there is no logical reason to leave the speed cams in place. The government should just ask the public to remove them at their convenience. Bit like the Berlin wall really...
) to just control the fury of youth. I agree with Paul though, there is no logical reason to leave the speed cams in place. The government should just ask the public to remove them at their convenience. Bit like the Berlin wall really...nonegreen said:
I think what Rospa is driving at is that the traffic police can manage the inner city troublesome drivers. They can target yoofs in maxed up cars and keep giving them a tug which will just focus them enough to not be a danger to other road users. I got pulled more than 200 times without prosecution in my teens for simply being in the wrong kind of car (grey Primer). Invariably this was at night and was a fair attempt by the traffic police most of whom were OK (there was one little shit though
On this particular issue of "maxxed up youth", They tend to stay local, probably due to spending all thier cash on the motor and having none left for petrol. Also they herd - so if a couple don't have cash for petrol or time to travel the rest stay nearby.
And guess what? They know exactly where the local cameras are and they never get caught.
They don't even get caught by Talivans because Talivans don't normally work at night.
safespeed said:
IF cameras are to be removed, then it has to be managed properly. The first thing we need to do is to build up Police Traffic Sections again.
We certainly do need to build up the traffic police again. But there are no safety benefits from cameras and we DO NOT need to build up traffic police strength first.
The cameras most certainly do not cause an improvement in driver behaviour that would be lost if the cameras were removed.
Why are you called "rospa" btw? Are you connected with the organisation?
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
No, I'm not connected to Rospa. If speed cameras were removed without building up TrafPol it would become a free for all.
rospa Liebchen
Cousin (BiB) - posts as "In Gear" - on Paul's site told him pretty much the same thing!
Need to build back the Force - after all the mismanagement.
Cous' not a fan of PC Gatso - and does admit that he lurked in side streets in and around Manchester in his mis-spent "youth", and used to pull people driving past at "unrealistic speeds".
Dab hand at that lecture - too! Got a really acid way of delivering as well! (Though he has never used it on the family - on grounds he would get clawed badly! 
)
He is now based in North East!
Cousin (BiB) - posts as "In Gear" - on Paul's site told him pretty much the same thing!
Need to build back the Force - after all the mismanagement. Cous' not a fan of PC Gatso - and does admit that he lurked in side streets in and around Manchester in his mis-spent "youth", and used to pull people driving past at "unrealistic speeds".
Dab hand at that lecture - too! Got a really acid way of delivering as well!
(Though he has never used it on the family - on grounds he would get clawed badly! ) He is now based in North East!
rospa said:
No, I'm not connected to Rospa. If speed cameras were removed without building up TrafPol it would become a free for all.
Nonsense. The vast majority drive in a perfectly reasonable manner. Even when there were Trafpols on the roads, the chances of seeing one were small, and it wasn't a "free for all" then.
zumbruk said:
No, I'm not connected to Rospa. If speed cameras were removed without building up TrafPol it would become a free for all.
Nonsense. The vast majority drive in a perfectly reasonable manner. Even when there were Trafpols on the roads, the chances of seeing one were small, and it wasn't a "free for all" then.
Well, not too sure about the reasonable manner bit, but the presence of trafpol will only affect the few nutters who can cause mahem and the odd wrinkly who has gone past the sell by. The rest will just get on with it. (remember driving is a legitimate licensed activity not some dodgy criminal patime) It is more of a free for all now with the cameras than it ever was with the patrols. The cameras serve no road related purpose really, they are there to collect cash to support parasite civil servants who should be put to work building roads.
zumbruk said:
No, I'm not connected to Rospa. If speed cameras were removed without building up TrafPol it would become a free for all.
Nonsense. The vast majority drive in a perfectly reasonable manner. Even when there were Trafpols on the roads, the chances of seeing one were small, and it wasn't a "free for all" then.
But the "free for all" arguement is what the likes of Brake, RoadPeace and the rest of them will use. If we go back 10 year we had no cameras and lots of TrafPol. If cameras were removed, we would have very few TrafPol and no cameras. Exactly, how would this be a "good thing"?
It depends on whether your objective is to be able to drive in any manner you wish or whether to target those drivers that do cause those collisions that lead to KSI's. If the former, then fine, campaign away. If the latter, we need more TrafPol.
At pain of appearing like a broken record, unmarked TrafPol is what we need to catch those drivers that *ARE* causing problems on our roads.
rospa said:
But the "free for all" arguement is what the likes of Brake, RoadPeace and the rest of them will use. If we go back 10 year we had no cameras and lots of TrafPol. If cameras were removed, we would have very few TrafPol and no cameras. Exactly, how would this be a "good thing"?
Absolutely true, however Brake and roadpeace have no expertise whatsoever. Their opinion has exactly the same status as the little green men from the 15th dimension who are sitting watching us.
We cannot take the views of the deranged into account when deciding transport policy. It really is high time these fools were offered alternative accomodation in some kind of reservation.nonegreen said:
But the "free for all" arguement is what the likes of Brake, RoadPeace and the rest of them will use. If we go back 10 year we had no cameras and lots of TrafPol. If cameras were removed, we would have very few TrafPol and no cameras. Exactly, how would this be a "good thing"?
Absolutely true, however Brake and roadpeace have no expertise whatsoever. Their opinion has exactly the same status as the little green men from the 15th dimension who are sitting watching us.
Indeed. However, the powers that be *DO* listen to these organisations and will be scared into believing that it will become a free for all.
rospa said:
...If cameras were removed, we would have very few TrafPol and no cameras. Exactly, how would this be a "good thing"?
In the huge mathematical equation that is road safety we currently have a few TrafPols who are a plus, and a lot of cameras which are a minus.
Sure it would be nice to get loads of TrafPols back on the roads, but notwithstanding that we're still better off without the cameras. Removing a negative effect is still a clear benefit, regardless of how many or few BiBs are on the road...
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