Side/fog lights at night, no headlights????

[FiF]

KTMsm said:

Tsippy said:

fking annoying aren't they? It's nice to blind them back with a combo of main beam and spot lights though..... the selfish tttish fking fktards

Yours and other posts make absolutely no sense

Side lights don't blind you and fog lights don't either

They're specifically designed to be low and have a low, sharp cut off, unless you are 12" tall you aren't being blinded by them

It does depend on them being aimed correctly. I regularly see a Fiat 500 which runs on dipped h/lights and f fogs, the latter are ridiculously bright, to the extent at first wondered if they were aux main beams and the idiot had not dipped.

Secondly I'm confused about the statements around switching. Maybe there are different arrangements but surely front and rear fogs can only be lit if position lights or headlights are also lit. By that I mean switching off headlights will not turn off foglights unless position lights are also switched off.

[MustangGT]

Fog lights diffuse the 'beam' not like a headlight or spotlight. Therefore a fog light will appear bright when left on because the beam is not aimed to be low. AFAIK fog lamps can be used with position markers (side-lights) or dipped beam, but not main beam.

[FiF]

Ballocks ^^^^

From the UK regs
Alignment
To the front and so aimed that the upper edge of the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver’s seat

[KTMsm]

MustangGT said:

Fog lights diffuse the 'beam' not like a headlight or spotlight. Therefore a fog light will appear bright when left on because the beam is not aimed to be low.

Rubbish - I use mine all the time on the back roads (with headlights) because they illuminate just in front of the car - perfect for spotting potholes - or driving in the fog with a low, sharp cut off

Very easy to see the beam pattern in use or against a wall

[grumpy52]

I got pulled whilst limping a car home from a security job one night . It had an alternator failure and we were running out of electricity and had entered a lit 30mph limit area and had turned my headlights off .
The first thing the copper said was you haven't got your headlights on .
He was surprised when informed that if he was going to do a traffic stop it would help his cause if he had some knowledge of the traffic laws .
He then tried to say we were over loaded ,my reply of what 5 people in a 7 seat vehicle.
At this point the second cop that had been doing a walk round of our vehicle had noted the boot full of hi Viz uniform jackets, special Surrey police road barriers and a large quantity of Surrey police paperwork giving us authority to close a couple of sections of road and a car park.
It was 2 am and I think they realised that they weren't going to win this one .
We had to push the vehicle the last 400 yds to one of the guys houses and swap vehicles.

[MustangGT]

FiF said:

Ballocks ^^^^

From the UK regs
Alignment
To the front and so aimed that the upper edge of the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver’s seat

Thanks. Shows I need to update my info in the new millennium rather than relying on info from the 70s and 80s.

[Tommo87]

MustangGT said:

Fog lights diffuse the 'beam' not like a headlight or spotlight. Therefore a fog light will appear bright when left on because the beam is not aimed to be low. AFAIK fog lamps can be used with position markers (side-lights) or dipped beam, but not main beam.

They do seem bright on an oncoming vehicle, especially when it’s raining.

And I have near perfect vision. Which might be why.

[FiF]

MustangGT said:

FiF said:

Ballocks ^^^^

From the UK regs
Alignment
To the front and so aimed that the upper edge of the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver’s seat

Thanks. Shows I need to update my info in the new millennium rather than relying on info from the 70s and 80s.

To be fair it gets more complicated. The ECE regulations covering such as type approval goes into much more detail, with different limits, permitted visibility and detected light intensity over various angles, but it amounts to the same hill of beans more or less.

ECE R19 (ECE/TRANS/WP.29/2007/62e) all 80 pages of it, just for front fog lights in case anyone needs sleep inducing reading material.

[KTMsm]

Tommo87 said:

They do seem bright on an oncoming vehicle, especially when it’s raining.

And I have near perfect vision. Which might be why.

They may look bright but they certainly aren't dazzling you, unless you've been knocked to the floor or they've been knocked upwards which is unlikely

[GasEngineer]

If fog lights are aimed so low, why is it not permitted to use them other than in times of poor visibility?

I had always thought that it was because they would dazzle other road users, but apparently not the case.

[RazerSauber]

I had this exact scenario about a week ago. 3 lanes entering a roundabout, I'm in the right lane. Guy comes around the roundabout in a Seat Mii. Side lights and front fogs on. Who should be in the lane to my left? A member of the local constabulary. Good heavens, an officer when you would want one. Completely ignored him.

[KTMsm]

GasEngineer said:

If fog lights are aimed so low, why is it not permitted to use them other than in times of poor visibility?

I had always thought that it was because they would dazzle other road users, but apparently not the case.

If you want to check, turn yours on when you're against your garage door or a wall, you'll see how low they are

No idea - probably an old antiquated law that hasn't kept up with the times

[Hol]

GasEngineer said:

If fog lights are aimed so low, why is it not permitted to use them other than in times of poor visibility?

I had always thought that it was because they would dazzle other road users, but apparently not the case.

I know from personal experience that they work really well in the thick fog on a dark unlit country road, as they light up the immediate area. Because that is what they are designed to do

However, there’s absolutely no need or benefit to using them on a well lit inner city road where visibility is not impaired.

The most moronic excuse I ever heard for using them exclusively as an option to standard dipped beam everywhere was one super-tt many many years ago on another forum
- But…..other people don’t keep gloves in their glovebox, so what’s the difference?