Nasty attack on female motorist by cyclist.
Discussion
swerni said:
singlecoil said:
swerni said:
singlecoil said:
swerni said:
singlecoil said:
I expect some cyclists will be along shortly to say it was the woman's fault.
nothing constructive to say then 
I would said it was closer to pathetic than funny.
ked if I know. I make a moderately humourous remark (which, as has already been pointed out, turn out to be somewhat prophetic) and you took exception to it. I've no idea why you did that. You tell me. You criticised me for not saying something constructive, but WTF constructive type of statement was available to be made about the topic, especially when so little information was provided?And if there was something constructive to say, why didn't you say it, instead of leaning down from your high horse to have a go at me?
Silver said:
Pothole said:
Silver said:
Pothole said:
I think you've extrapolated a lot of justification where there isn't much. I think there is much more to the story than has been reported.
Why?There may or may not be more to the story but I find it odd that this thread appears to be shaping up into pages of justifying pre-emptively assaulting another person and assuming that the victim of an assault (in the absence of any other information) deserved it.
NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT THE CYCLIST IS A PSYCHOTIC OGRE WHO DID SOMETHING ON PURPOSE TO MAKE THE WOMAN PULL OVER SO HE COULD PUNCH HER.
Yes, you have misunderstood.
Pothole said:
Silver said:
Pothole said:
Silver said:
Pothole said:
I think you've extrapolated a lot of justification where there isn't much. I think there is much more to the story than has been reported.
Why?There may or may not be more to the story but I find it odd that this thread appears to be shaping up into pages of justifying pre-emptively assaulting another person and assuming that the victim of an assault (in the absence of any other information) deserved it.
NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT THE CYCLIST IS A PSYCHOTIC OGRE WHO DID SOMETHING ON PURPOSE TO MAKE THE WOMAN PULL OVER SO HE COULD PUNCH HER.
Yes, you have misunderstood.
I wasn't picking on you particularly, I just happened to quote your post because it was relevant to my point. I also didn't suggest that you thought the cyclist had done something on purpose to make the motorist pull over so he could assault her. Not sure where you got that from.
My point was merely that I found it frankly bizarre that some posters appeared to be appointing themselves judge, jury and executioner despite the information given and deciding that the motorist must have done something to provoke the assault and somehow deserved it.
shouldbworking said:
A reminder on the law of the land.
You can hit a person in self defence. You can hit pre-emptively, if you feel there is a threat. You can be wrong about that threat, and the defence will still be valid.
If this cyclist felt threatened by the womans actions then he will be entirely in the clear.
You can hit a person in self defence. You can hit pre-emptively, if you feel there is a threat. You can be wrong about that threat, and the defence will still be valid.
If this cyclist felt threatened by the womans actions then he will be entirely in the clear.
I don't think he should be so sure about that...
Isn't there supposed to be consideration of proportionality in the pre-emptive action? From the descriptions of the parties given, one would expect the cyclist capable of doing a lot more damage to the driver than vice versa.
If I somehow managed to annoy Stephen Hawking and he came at me in his chair at full pelt with a torrent of words I don't think I'd feel justified in lamping him one (bit of an extreme example, I know)
JJ
jazzyjeff said:
shouldbworking said:
A reminder on the law of the land.
You can hit a person in self defence. You can hit pre-emptively, if you feel there is a threat. You can be wrong about that threat, and the defence will still be valid.
If this cyclist felt threatened by the womans actions then he will be entirely in the clear.
You can hit a person in self defence. You can hit pre-emptively, if you feel there is a threat. You can be wrong about that threat, and the defence will still be valid.
If this cyclist felt threatened by the womans actions then he will be entirely in the clear.
I don't think he should be so sure about that...
Isn't there supposed to be consideration of proportionality in the pre-emptive action? From the descriptions of the parties given, one would expect the cyclist capable of doing a lot more damage to the driver than vice versa.
If I somehow managed to annoy Stephen Hawking and he came at me in his chair at full pelt with a torrent of words I don't think I'd feel justified in lamping him one (bit of an extreme example, I know)
JJ
Woman: "A woman" "the 29-year-old"
Man: "white, between 30 to 35 years old, and of athletic build."
She could be 5' 10" and built like Tessa Sanderson for all we know.
FM I wouldn't stop if I 'thought' I'd brushed accidentally some of the PHs on here. I'd probably end up in the morgue! WHY is everybody today so bloody reactionary?
Didn't used to be like this. Must be a sign of the times. It's like that woman who went manic in a shop smashing everything up, simply because the shop didn't have her favourite 'cupcake' (or similar).
WTF is up with everybody? Stress levels seem to have gone ballistic. Or are they all 'high'?
Still, I'm old enough to remember Sundays being a 'day of rest'.
Some today could do with a 'month of rest' ...every other month!
As for smacking a woman, anyone with an ounce of sense must 'know' that ain't gonna end up well. If she's coming at you with a 12-inch blade then yeah, a bit of reaction is called for. In my experience anybody who cuts you up, nudges you, bumps you etc, NEVER stops, unless they are that ultra-rare nowadays one per-cent honest driver or more likely, the bump insurance scam scum.
Road rage nearly always turns nasty. Best to bite your lip, ignore, and get on your way. You live another day then.
I used to react. Not any more - or at least I try VERY hard not to.
I always recall the one where this driver took one hell of exception to me flashing him - but he'd cut me up. I realised he was not the 'average' daily driver you meet, when he suddenly 'handbraked' in front of me at 65 plus - produced more tyre smoke than Clarkson!
I was at a distance able to brake in time.
Then eventually (I thought he'd calmed down) we came up to a junction - he leapt out and ran back towards my car. The adrenalin pumped. Do I get out and have a go (plenty of traffic/witnesses about)? F that, I thought - you hear all this of knives etc! He pulled on the door handle (fruitless), banged my window, giving me a mouthful while I gave him the same from within (it's b hard not to resist doing the same!).
Then he suddenly stopped and walked away (I think he and I realised he'd had a bad day - don't we all) thinking what the hell he was doing. Suddenly he raised his arm high and his fist came down full pelt on the leading edge of my bonnet.
Jeeeez, it must have hurt! His clenched fist bounced back and his fingers opened like they'd hit a brick wall.
Oh, the bonnet of my then car was of exceedingly thick grp. Not a mark on it!
Always loved GRP!
Didn't used to be like this. Must be a sign of the times. It's like that woman who went manic in a shop smashing everything up, simply because the shop didn't have her favourite 'cupcake' (or similar).
WTF is up with everybody? Stress levels seem to have gone ballistic. Or are they all 'high'?
Still, I'm old enough to remember Sundays being a 'day of rest'.
Some today could do with a 'month of rest' ...every other month!
As for smacking a woman, anyone with an ounce of sense must 'know' that ain't gonna end up well. If she's coming at you with a 12-inch blade then yeah, a bit of reaction is called for. In my experience anybody who cuts you up, nudges you, bumps you etc, NEVER stops, unless they are that ultra-rare nowadays one per-cent honest driver or more likely, the bump insurance scam scum.
Road rage nearly always turns nasty. Best to bite your lip, ignore, and get on your way. You live another day then.
I used to react. Not any more - or at least I try VERY hard not to.
I always recall the one where this driver took one hell of exception to me flashing him - but he'd cut me up. I realised he was not the 'average' daily driver you meet, when he suddenly 'handbraked' in front of me at 65 plus - produced more tyre smoke than Clarkson!
I was at a distance able to brake in time.
Then eventually (I thought he'd calmed down) we came up to a junction - he leapt out and ran back towards my car. The adrenalin pumped. Do I get out and have a go (plenty of traffic/witnesses about)? F that, I thought - you hear all this of knives etc! He pulled on the door handle (fruitless), banged my window, giving me a mouthful while I gave him the same from within (it's b hard not to resist doing the same!).
Then he suddenly stopped and walked away (I think he and I realised he'd had a bad day - don't we all) thinking what the hell he was doing. Suddenly he raised his arm high and his fist came down full pelt on the leading edge of my bonnet.
Jeeeez, it must have hurt! His clenched fist bounced back and his fingers opened like they'd hit a brick wall.
Oh, the bonnet of my then car was of exceedingly thick grp. Not a mark on it!
Always loved GRP!
In Brighton we had a woman in the front office complaining about a road rage incident when a hairy biker threw his bike at her car and screamed at her. She, delicate creature, wanted him arrested. She had to wait for a couple of minutes as we were short of staff as we had one police officer dealing with a hit and run at Black Rock with a cyclist in serious condition.
And independent witness said that the cyclist was riding sensibly when the woman pulled out into the main road. Cyclist tried to brake but there was no time. She stopped her car and the cyclist went over the bonnet, taking his bike with him.
He evidently tried to stand (my memory's a bit vague here) and as she drove off he screamed out at her then threw his written off bike to the ground.
The suspicion was that the girl had got to work, phoned boyfriend/father, who'd told her to go to the station and get her story in first.
There is always two sides.
And independent witness said that the cyclist was riding sensibly when the woman pulled out into the main road. Cyclist tried to brake but there was no time. She stopped her car and the cyclist went over the bonnet, taking his bike with him.
He evidently tried to stand (my memory's a bit vague here) and as she drove off he screamed out at her then threw his written off bike to the ground.
The suspicion was that the girl had got to work, phoned boyfriend/father, who'd told her to go to the station and get her story in first.
There is always two sides.
jazzyjeff said:
I don't think he should be so sure about that...
Isn't there supposed to be consideration of proportionality in the pre-emptive action? From the descriptions of the parties given, one would expect the cyclist capable of doing a lot more damage to the driver than vice versa.
If I somehow managed to annoy Stephen Hawking and he came at me in his chair at full pelt with a torrent of words I don't think I'd feel justified in lamping him one (bit of an extreme example, I know)
JJ
In short, no you aren't supposed to judge to a fine detail the level of force you use - the law recognises that the decisions made in such a situation may not be perfect - if they can be shown to be excessive, like your hawking example then certainly, but in the case in question, striking a person once in the belief that they had tried to cause them harm (the possible collision with the car) and may be about to attempt to cause them further harm (getting out of the car and approaching them) would not be unreasonable.Isn't there supposed to be consideration of proportionality in the pre-emptive action? From the descriptions of the parties given, one would expect the cyclist capable of doing a lot more damage to the driver than vice versa.
If I somehow managed to annoy Stephen Hawking and he came at me in his chair at full pelt with a torrent of words I don't think I'd feel justified in lamping him one (bit of an extreme example, I know)
JJ
If he had gone on to continue the attack once she was no longer a threat, that would be an entirely different matter, but thats not the story that has been portrayed in this limited version of the story.
Silver said:
No need to shout, I'm not hard of hearing!
I wasn't picking on you particularly, I just happened to quote your post because it was relevant to my point. I also didn't suggest that you thought the cyclist had done something on purpose to make the motorist pull over so he could assault her. Not sure where you got that from.
My point was merely that I found it frankly bizarre that some posters appeared to be appointing themselves judge, jury and executioner despite the information given and deciding that the motorist must have done something to provoke the assault and somehow deserved it.
To the contrary, people who were reluctant to accept mindlessly the BBC report simply stated the obvious: that the BBC has reported only one party's version of the incident and, in order to form any conclusions, we must, as the police spokesperson said, "fully establish the circumstances."I wasn't picking on you particularly, I just happened to quote your post because it was relevant to my point. I also didn't suggest that you thought the cyclist had done something on purpose to make the motorist pull over so he could assault her. Not sure where you got that from.
My point was merely that I found it frankly bizarre that some posters appeared to be appointing themselves judge, jury and executioner despite the information given and deciding that the motorist must have done something to provoke the assault and somehow deserved it.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but from this BBC report do we know anything at all apart from the fact that there is a 29 year-old woman in Edinburgh with a perforated eardrum?
I wasn`t going to post on this,but I`ve had much beer today and my sense of morality is in limp mode.
I believe my youngest sister is related through marriage to this woman,never met that side of her family before so can only go on what Ive heard mentioned over the years at weddings etc.and taken a bit away for the chinese whispers.
What I`m left with is the picture not of someone who would stop to see if you were hurt,rather of one who would have been giving you some coarse abuse from the off and probably ready to lash out,she has a knife scar to the cheek from a previous fight at a night club and she is from edinburgh which isn`t reknowned for shrinking violets either.
some people just seem to attract trouble,or is it their attitude?
I`m not condoning violence towards any one,(I`m a
) but this guy was probably st scared and lashed out,who knows? bearing in mind he`s wearing purple tights for a start and atheletic build usually means tall and thin but muscular. sounds like hes a faggot and probably slapped her,the rsulting air displacement from the open palm bursts the eardrum,much like loud over ear headphones.
As an aside and a little eye opener.
My eldest sister as a child had an undiagnosed kidney problem which gave her high blood pressure,made her very unstable and resulted in her being expelled from school after school.
mainly for violence towards other pupils and the odd staff,ok you think thats reasonably normal for some kids but my sister is about 6`2" and eighteen stone of tomboy and was a big handful even as a kid.
On this particular day,I was about 13 at the time day She had me pinned to the floor beating me relentlessly,I could feel my self almost blacking out from her being on my chest so I stabbed her in the calf with my small pen knife just to stop her,it just made her worse andif it wasnt for my neighbours son saving me I dont know where it would have ended.
She later got married to an RAF technitian who had epillepsy so had been retired early and he seemed to calm her down.
On the anniversary of his fathers death he came home drunk and she shouted,he raised his hand and when telling me the story later he said at that moment he knew he had fked up.
the resulting mess ended with her in high point prison for 6 months him in Southend hospital with broken eye sockets,a smashed hand, all four metacarpels were crushed like matches just from a squeeeze of the hand,which looked like a rubber glove blown up.
His ribs were cracked,hed got a dislocated toe and had various other cuts and bruises.
He was almost her equal in size with military training,didn`t do him any good at all.
further more she has attacked and hospitalised other people in her life.
Not randon attacks just people who hve pissed her off.
one episode involved a suicide attempt and she ended up being locked in an empty room in the hospital by the security guys whos she had assaulted,one quite badly and by two young plod.
who were rightly too scared to go in and detain her until others arrived to assist,thankfully our mother arrived in time and talked some sense into her,she left quietly and been sent to prison more than once and a phsyciactric unit for her sins.
she`s 45 now and has changed,calmed mainly through ill health but she will take no st even now.
I suppose if there is a moral to this story its would be dont assume that because its a woman its the weaker sex,some women are more than a match for most men.
I believe my youngest sister is related through marriage to this woman,never met that side of her family before so can only go on what Ive heard mentioned over the years at weddings etc.and taken a bit away for the chinese whispers.
What I`m left with is the picture not of someone who would stop to see if you were hurt,rather of one who would have been giving you some coarse abuse from the off and probably ready to lash out,she has a knife scar to the cheek from a previous fight at a night club and she is from edinburgh which isn`t reknowned for shrinking violets either.
some people just seem to attract trouble,or is it their attitude?
I`m not condoning violence towards any one,(I`m a
) but this guy was probably st scared and lashed out,who knows? bearing in mind he`s wearing purple tights for a start and atheletic build usually means tall and thin but muscular. sounds like hes a faggot and probably slapped her,the rsulting air displacement from the open palm bursts the eardrum,much like loud over ear headphones.As an aside and a little eye opener.
My eldest sister as a child had an undiagnosed kidney problem which gave her high blood pressure,made her very unstable and resulted in her being expelled from school after school.
mainly for violence towards other pupils and the odd staff,ok you think thats reasonably normal for some kids but my sister is about 6`2" and eighteen stone of tomboy and was a big handful even as a kid.
On this particular day,I was about 13 at the time day She had me pinned to the floor beating me relentlessly,I could feel my self almost blacking out from her being on my chest so I stabbed her in the calf with my small pen knife just to stop her,it just made her worse andif it wasnt for my neighbours son saving me I dont know where it would have ended.
She later got married to an RAF technitian who had epillepsy so had been retired early and he seemed to calm her down.
On the anniversary of his fathers death he came home drunk and she shouted,he raised his hand and when telling me the story later he said at that moment he knew he had f
ked up.the resulting mess ended with her in high point prison for 6 months him in Southend hospital with broken eye sockets,a smashed hand, all four metacarpels were crushed like matches just from a squeeeze of the hand,which looked like a rubber glove blown up.
His ribs were cracked,hed got a dislocated toe and had various other cuts and bruises.
He was almost her equal in size with military training,didn`t do him any good at all.
further more she has attacked and hospitalised other people in her life.
Not randon attacks just people who hve pissed her off.
one episode involved a suicide attempt and she ended up being locked in an empty room in the hospital by the security guys whos she had assaulted,one quite badly and by two young plod.
who were rightly too scared to go in and detain her until others arrived to assist,thankfully our mother arrived in time and talked some sense into her,she left quietly and been sent to prison more than once and a phsyciactric unit for her sins.
she`s 45 now and has changed,calmed mainly through ill health but she will take no s
t even now.I suppose if there is a moral to this story its would be dont assume that because its a woman its the weaker sex,some women are more than a match for most men.
shouldbworking said:
A reminder on the law of the land.
You can hit a person in self defence. You can hit pre-emptively, if you feel there is a threat. You can be wrong about that threat, and the defence will still be valid.
If this cyclist felt threatened by the womans actions then he will be entirely in the clear. Given that she had by her own admission come close enough to him with her car to be unsure if she had struck him with it, there clearly was the potential for a threat to be perceived.
If he felt threatened from the car then as she had stopped and got out there was no longer a threat from the car and therefore has nothing to protect himself from.You can hit a person in self defence. You can hit pre-emptively, if you feel there is a threat. You can be wrong about that threat, and the defence will still be valid.
If this cyclist felt threatened by the womans actions then he will be entirely in the clear. Given that she had by her own admission come close enough to him with her car to be unsure if she had struck him with it, there clearly was the potential for a threat to be perceived.
If he felt threatened from the woman they would question why he didnt walk/run/cycle away as that is always the recommended option if not backed into a corner
tvrgit said:
Many years ago, a friend of my wife was forced to a stop by some knob with issues, who said "If you were a man, I'd punch you in the face".
She said "If you were a man you might get away with it."
Back on topic, there's no excuse for this kind of behaviour - bet the cowardly bd has spent this weekend buying new cycling gear so that he won't be recognised, and gets the bus to work for the next few weeks...
Shirley he will stick out like a sore thumb, travelling on the bus in new cycling gear?She said "If you were a man you might get away with it."
Back on topic, there's no excuse for this kind of behaviour - bet the cowardly b
d has spent this weekend buying new cycling gear so that he won't be recognised, and gets the bus to work for the next few weeks...flemke said:
Because the scenario described by one party, whilst possible, seems unlikely:
- Not sure if my car may have brushed him,
- stopped to say, "Sorry if my car brushed you",
- so he beat the crap out of me.
Maybe that really is what happened, but it would help to hear the cyclist's version of the incident.
It took place in Scotland - maybe he mistook her for his wife? - Not sure if my car may have brushed him,
- stopped to say, "Sorry if my car brushed you",
- so he beat the crap out of me.
Maybe that really is what happened, but it would help to hear the cyclist's version of the incident.
flemke said:
Because the scenario described by one party, whilst possible, seems unlikely:
- Not sure if my car may have brushed him,
- stopped to say, "Sorry if my car brushed you",
- so he beat the crap out of me.
Maybe that really is what happened, but it would help to hear the cyclist's version of the incident.
It would help if he hadn't cycled off after striking the woman!- Not sure if my car may have brushed him,
- stopped to say, "Sorry if my car brushed you",
- so he beat the crap out of me.
Maybe that really is what happened, but it would help to hear the cyclist's version of the incident.
Marvin Hagler said:
Aren't women supposed to be equal to men? They behave as if they are, demand the same salaries, occupy jobs that traditionally men were doing, drink and smoke as much as men and demand to be treated no different. Thus, if for a given situation someone deserves a punch they should get it regardless of whether they are male or female. After all we should not discriminate against women!
Just playing devils advocate here....
That assumes you accept the little dears are equal Just playing devils advocate here....
Just playing devil's advocate On the subject of self defence if I had to of course I'd hit back to protect myself. However what we're talking about here is punching a woman, in the face, who hasn't done you any harm and that of course is absolutely wrong. Would be too if it was a man but the fact it was a woman...........fecking bully and not much of a man.
Stephen Gerrard got away with a serious assault in Southport by claiming that he believed HE was about to be assaulted. CCTV of the event showed others joining in the assault which arose because the victim refused to allow Gerrard behind the bar to change the music on the CD player!
Meanwhile, the victim received death threats as Gerrard is a respected Liverpool player!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/pr...
It is amazing how far you can take this "self defence" argument when you have money and influence!
It's doubtful that witnesses would come forward, and might well be no use to this woman anyhow. It didn't help the CPS against Gerrard!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2009/jul/...
Meanwhile, the victim received death threats as Gerrard is a respected Liverpool player!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/pr...
It is amazing how far you can take this "self defence" argument when you have money and influence!
It's doubtful that witnesses would come forward, and might well be no use to this woman anyhow. It didn't help the CPS against Gerrard!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2009/jul/...
Busa_Rush said:
Meoricin said:
Why is it relevant that he happened to be cycling before the assault? Trying to stir up arguments by creating these 'opposing groups' such as motorists/cyclists/bikers is pathetic. People are people, their mode of transport doesn't define their character.
If it had been a black man the police would have said a black man ...
Streaky
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